Posted: 1/13/2008 8:04:48 PM EDT
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I totally understand the back up power, batteries/inverters, generators, or maybe a few solar panels for SHTF as i've read about them on here before.... and I do plan on putting together such a system. I know that i've read on here other threads about solar power. But I'm in the process of getting ready to build a home and was doing a little research online about them. But as far as trying to lower electricity bills or getting completely off-grid; the saving doesnt add up in my head. I understand all the tax credits. This is my thinking with current prices... A typical off-grid system would cost....say $75,000 (going through a cerified solar company/installer in order to get these tax credits). The monthly payment could by maybe $300 a month for i dont know maybe 20 years. Thats about $150 more than a current electric bill. These systems typically have a lifespan of about 25 years. So you will have around 5 years after paying $75K to not have to pay an electric bill... By that time wouldnt the technology be outragously cheaper. But then have to pay for major replacement parts or spend more money to upgrade to better technology? Without the solar system, you would have paid around $36K in that 20 years for electricity which would have been $150 less a month for all that time. I dont see the "awsome" savings.... It makes me want to wait several years for better technology an the prices to come down drastically, assuming they will. Or maybe never doing it, if it savings dont add up. Is my thinking wrong? I'd appriciate you guy's thoughts. thanks |
| The problem that I am seeing with your logic is that you are counting on a KW of electricity staying the same price. I for one dont see electricity prices staying level. I am thinking about adding enough solar to cover *most* of my electric bill in order to basically lock in the prices I pay for my electricy. Also, I live in an area where typical electric bills are $250 a month in the winter and $500+ a month in the summer. This is for a typical 20 year old SFR, so the price of solar makes alot more sense at the current electrical rate. |
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You both have good logic. It is cost prohibitive to turn a house into a solar home for most people. The research I have done indicates that the cost over the life of the system comes out to about 25 cents per kilowatt hour. I am paying 8 cents in the winter and 10 cents in the summer so of course it sounds like its not a savings. However the cost of electricity is only going up. There is no way around that. Building a new home to incorporate solar is easier to recoup your cost. You can build the house to be more energy efficient, faces the proper direction for optimal solar collection and you can design the electrical system to be energy efficient. |
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$75K for solar!!! WOW!!! I guess if you wanted to never bother to ever have to even slightly conserve any power it might just might cost this much. Now I have no idea what installers charge. I was lucky to have a good friend help me with our first system, I paid him but not $75K! LOL We have a small house (less than 1,500 sq. feet) for the last 8 years now we have run the whole house off of 14 Kyocera 130 watt panels (you could find these for around $500. each if you shop around, that's $7K), we use a Trace (now Xantrex) 4024 inverter, you can find one of these now for around $2,300, (2) C40 charge controllers at $150. a pop, a bank of 20 Trojan L16 batteries ($3,000.) Racks for the panels estimated at $500. (very tough built racks), even at today's wiring prices if the runs were short you wouldn't probably touch $800. in wiring, add a diesel genset for backup $4K, fuel tank $300. and fuel ($500), misc. enclosures for wiring safey switches, etc. $500. Well under $20K We put well under 10 hours a year on our genset also. Run your stove/oven off of LP gas ($300.) get the model with the PILOT LIGHT, this way you require NO ELECTRICITY to start it. The standard pretty gas oven at Sears requires ELECTRIC IGNITION. Run your water heater off of gas ($300). Hang your clothes out to dry or use a gas dryer. Cooking, water heating and space heating are your biggest electric loads, use LP gas and wood and/or solar to accomplish these. FWIW, this doesn't leave you in the dark or living like Laura Ingalls. Our house has two computers, two TV's, fridge, microwave, ceiling fans in every room, etc. All the stuff a "normal" house has. Just use common sense in how you use stuff. Buy the compact fluorescent bulbs, turn lights off while not in the room, don't leave the TV or computer on all day, etc. You CAN live comfortably this way, we are proof of that. Lowdown3 |
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No problem, glad to be of help. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me. Keep in mind if your looking at it STRICTLY as a cost saving money, it ISN'T. Even when you consider your break even point, you still have to factor in changing out your batteries every so often. We use the lead acid batteries and the first batch we only got 3 years out of- but that could have been more from mistreatment than anything else. I had a "friend" who was a blabbering idiot that "helped" me out PM'ing the batteries. Even after very explicit instructions he put about 20X more than the water needed into the batteries. This ruined the solution and it wasn't long after I started having bad cells show up. The second batch is going on 5 years so I have to assume the lack of longevity in the first had a lot to do with the batteries not being PM'ed right. |
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Cajun do some research on building a solar home. Make sure your orientation is correct. If you are looking at more than one story look at overhangs and where they should be. Also consider 2X6 exterior walls to increase the R value of your wall insulation. There are alot of things you can do in the building process to make Solar that more beneficial. You would be looking for PASSIVE SOLAR |
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I agree that taking a home off grid in one shot can be expensive, even building one off grid can be as well. We also live off grid as well, and there is no hope (or care) for getting the grid to us. I have 8 of the Kyocera 130watt panels, but I need 4 more. My system is setup at 48v, so I have to get them in 4's. We use the larger more expensive batteries, which are 2.2v each and from Forklifts. They run about $800 each, and I have 24 of them. With good care I should get 20 years out of them though.. For backup I have a 15Kw LP generator (way overkill). Mistakes I made, or the builder/architect made.. Hot water heater is LP, but requires a power vent due to placement... which of course needs power. Forced air heating system. IF I would have stopped to think, I would have put in the ventless/vented LP heaters in each room. I should have setup the water pump to go into a cistern, and then gravity fed from there... that pump takes quite a bit to run. -Corn |
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There's good stuff in this thread. In addition to the passive solar design that was mentioned above, don't forget to consider solor hot water along with the gas tankless water heater for back up. We're looking at using solar water heater for domestic hot water and radient floor heating. That helps reduce your total purchased energy picture rather than just electric. R. |
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There was a house in New England built to be completely offgrid. I think they even sold juice back to the power company. They had a web site at one time. It might be more realistic to start with one aspect- hot water, for example. Depending on your location and energy costs it might be a good place for many to start. |