Posted: 8/28/2007 3:22:17 PM EDT
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So I need some suggestions. Here is the scenario and current preparations: Seattle, WA: Most likely disasters: Earthquake and civil unrest/rioting. Could potentially have two room mates and a girlfriend to look after for the duration. Primary domicile: Rented room in a single family dwelling. Primary vehicle: 1991 VW Jetta. Emergency plan: Shelter in place. Current preparations: 4 cases bottled water Streamlight rechargeable flashlights (8w Litebox and 20XP-LED) Glock 26 (4mags) and Sig 228 (13mags), ~1k rounds of FMJ Portable camping stove (currently no fuel canisters) Budget: $1000, initial (4months @ $250/mo) Planned preparations: 2 week canned/prepared food 2 week bottled water Fuel canisters for stove Candles 20 gallons gasoline in Jerry cans Ruger MkIII Radio: battery/crank powered I'm looking for suggestions/modifications on what to buy and where to buy while sticking within the budget. Expensive things like a generator or a Toyota are out. Looking for anything additional that I haven't thought about. I do have some camping stuff (tent, sleeping bag, stove, first aid; basic hiking stuff for a night or two outside) but I'm looking for specific survival items. Also looking for books to read. Suggestions. |
| It's arguable, but IMO you need a better light source whether you plan to stay put or hit the road. Coleman lanterns, LED lanterns and/or oil lamps come to mind. Candles are OK for short-term power outages, not so good for prolonged periods without electricity. YMMV. |
| solar spot lights the kind with 20' wire for the light you can place it on your roof and run the wire inside for light or just set it in the cloud shine durring the day, or use it to recharge aa batts, contractor trash bags dump the garbage and collect rain water in the liner + <$100 water filter, welded wire to fit all of the windows too keep bricks/bottles at bay. |
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1) If I was going to add another gun on that budget it would be a pump shotgun. Then trick it out just a bit with a light and side saddle or butt cuff. A good assortment of 2) Other gun stuff... a light one of the pistols and start adding up boxes of wall mart winchester JHPs (FMJ is for practice with pistols) 2) The way to stock-pile food is to get some rubbermade type tubs and add canned goods to them. You opnly have to rotate them every two years and when that happens you can just move them in to your pantry. I would go for more than two weeks though. Besides canned goods you could also keep a stock of ramen, keep one mixed case to work from (snacks etc and keep another bellow it) That's a lot of bulk carbs. Other good cheap and handy to have things that don't realy go bad are raisins and penutbutter. Fill the empty spaces in your tubs with them. 3) If your rotating through 4 cases of bottle water I would add bulk water not more bottles. Military Water COntainers, AQUA cubes or something. 4) I don't know what kind of stove you have but the canisters are critical. You might look in to a Coleman dual fuel stove. 5) Blankets/sleaping bags/space blankets if you don't have another way to keep warm. (At least Western Washington isn't a SERIOUSLY cold place.) 6) I personaly like candles (storage space etc) but you have to be careful with them. 7) I would add a couple of decent D cell flashlights, not the cheapos but mid range ones, and or a couple of the real self chargers. 8) The radio is a great idea. |
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MWC's: Where do I get those and what are the procedures for storing water in them? Fill and forget? Scepter MWC Light: Like candles because there are no batteries, bulbs, or fuel to store/rotate. I will look into an LED lantern. Suggestions on models and where to shop for one? Generator: Not currently on the list due to cost considerations. Not able to hardwire one into the system as it isn't my house and talking the owners (room mates) into it isn't likely. May get a small Honda in the future. Heat source: I have a warm down bag, plenty of wool clothing, and a bottle of whiskey. What heat source would you recommend? Also the logistics of it and the problem of ventilation/CO. Firearms: I own a shotgun and rifles, they are at the parents due to storage concerns. I only have a small non-rifle size safe and the house security is questionable, as is the neighborhood, again, not something I have a lot of control over. I do have a non-weapon mounted Surefire (e2d). Ammunition: I have some Gold Dots for when I carry, only about ~100. There is a Walmart nearby so I'll check on the JHP. Stove: It's the one I use for camping. Jetboil. Not the best emergency equipment, but it will work for what I need and I already own it. Remember, books and places to shop (online), need those too. Great ideas, keep them coming. |
You are right, more TEOTWAWKI. I wouldn't think about gold etc if you're worried about keeping a long gun. |
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I have a friend that is Seattle PD, he told me that at a Disaster prepardness meeting that they were told that Seattle would become an island. Basically flood, earthquake would drop all bridges and it would be isolated for weeks if not months other than by air and sea. Base your preps on that, you wont be walking or driving out. -Water amd the ability to purifiy more -firearms/ammo(sheltering in, pistol and shotgun) -food -medical supplies -clothing temp for the seasons, raingear etc. -plastic sheeting for repairs Good luck |
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For LED lanterns, Big lots had some recently. a 3 pack for $10. They take 4AAA batteries. enough light to navigate a room, or even read if you are clost to the. Wrap the lens with clear tape to make the lighting more even. Target had some similar ones that had high/low settings, and are a bit brighter. Cost more though. If you get a battery powered radio, try to match battery sizes with some of your lighting, so you dont have to stock too many batteries. I try to stick with AA and D sizes, they seem to give the best bang for the $ and size. Small solar panel matched to a battery setup, so you can recharge batteries. Indoor propane heater, like the heater buddy (google it) Headlights, they are often more useful than flashlights. Walmart, target carry some decent ones that wont break the bank, usually $10-20. I have a few, and for indoor work, I really prefer the 2 white/1 red LED types. most take AAA batteries, which kinda sucks because it means another battery type to stock. Maybe some frs/gmrs radios to keep in contact with your roomies/girlfriend if cellphones quit. Got a GHB for your vehicle yet? I usually just go with general areas, for me its easier to make a proper list if I have some categories to fill. Water: Keep some on hand, have a way to purify more Food: Some easy to prepare, some cooking required. a plan on how to more if the situation goes longer than you are prepared for. Shelter: stuff to keep you warm (heater, blankets, etc), stuff to keep you healthy (vitamins, first aid), stuff to keep up morale (books, music, games), Lighting (candles, lanterns, flashlights, headlamps, etc), Fire starting gear Security: active defense (guns/ammo), passive defense (locks, window and door reinforcement, etc) Comms: some way of finding out whats going on(am/fm/weather/shortwave), and some way of communicating with friendlies (shortwave/frs/gmrs/CB/etc) Misc: extra batteries, backup power systems, etc |
check out sportsmansguide for an LED lantern. I got one there, run either 15 or 30 led, takes 4 'D' batts, and will last a long time, gives off really good light. comes with a case...about 35 bux I think |
$15.84 each from www.buylci.com/ just click on the "Preview/Shop as Guest" Link on the left, then search on water cans Best price out there by at least 10 bucks a can  Food - Check out Sams/Costco for bulk rice,beans,pasta,canned food. Bulk pricing works in your favor. Shelter - even for bugging in you need to plan for staying warm and having light. Indoor light has a couple issues, flame produced light uses oxygen and produces harmful fumes/gasses. I really like LED lanterns for inside use. 48 packs of AA can be had for $10 from Costco and generally go along way with LED lanterns. Another option could be a single mantle propane lantern - typically they will run 8-10 hours on a medium setting. Fuel and ventiliation issues will need to be addressed but its an affordable option. Don't forget that with having a light source you may want to hide that fact. Heavy blankets over windows work but if you need those blankets to stay warm then what? Sheets of of 4x8' 0.25" foam insulation can be had from Lowes/Home Depot for cheap and then cut to fit windows. Seal the edges with duct tape. Gives you extra insulation (a little bit) and stops light. Worst case you can use foil/cardboard in the same way. Water - Storage is best, filtration and purification is good. I am in the process of testing an in expensive method that seems to work and is .gov recommended link. Another option for shorter duration could be the Water BOB. For about $25 you can fill the tub with water and keep it...not loose it down the drain. Nice thing these options is that it doesn't take fuel to boil the water Commo - I'd go for a simple AA powered AM/FM/Weather radio vs. a crank powered one. I have a Sony multi band that will run for weeks on a couple AA's. If you want a bit better then I'd consider getting a $14 HAM technicians license (10 years) and a multi function radio like a Yaesu VX-6R...about a whole months of budget so it may be too much but it gives you local 2 way commo and a very nice contingency communications plan. Something to think about. Lots of great suggestions in this thread! |
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I live up in Bellingham and my main preps are for an Earthquake. As a matter of fact my preps are split 3 ways in case the house collapses, I don't want all my crap in the basement worthless, or on fire. (Have a back-up plan for your back-up plan...) First thing you need is to sit down and write out a meal plan for 3 months. Make it easy, no 7 course meals unless a can of Chef-boy-r-dee and a six-pack is your definition of a 7 course meal. Find out how much fuel your stove uses to cook. In all honesty I've cooked for for weeks on my backpacking stoves several different times, so I have a good idea how much I can use them. From there, start making your food, cooking fuel, and water storage priority. Couple of Military grade water containers, and a filter. This is the northwest, water, water everywhere... A shotgun is nice, but you already have several weapons, the main one being your brain. Lights are easy, get some LED lanterns. Couple of good mag-lights, and a shit load of batteries. |
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food,water,shelter. your talking 3-4 folks 3 gallons of h20 a day. thats for hygene cookingand drinking in adverse conditions, 10 days 120 gallons..... food- stock wet foods( can goods) for short term use- 1-4 weeks rotate that stock into your pantry. inotherwords if you like soup buy 3-5 extra cans each trip set them in your stocks and rotate as dates come up. shelter- your in Wa im sure it gets cold. wool blankets down comforters sleepingbags - cheap wally mart ones for BI use, lighter better ones for if you have to BO. have a PLAN a BOB,per person fire supression. even if its just a few garden hoses with faucet adapters and nozzles. get something. FAK- and know how to use it way to cook- coleman dual fuel is the way to go. soda can stoves,super cats etc, for back ups, fuel is cheap and last a long time, these can dbl for BOB stoves. heat- some kindof heater, or way to heat your unit. if its nopower in super cold winter temps. plan ot heat one room, all sleep in that room etc. or buy eachperson their onw. then dbl up your fire supression gear. oillamps for light led lanterns/headlamps for otheruse's good crank radio am/fm/sw a good ROE and defense plan. traineach house memeber onit. This means THEY HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN YOUR PLANNING AND TRAINING. if they are not "into" this your roomates are nothing more than zombie fodder, and a risk to your opsec and self postevent! YMMV as always |
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Here's my $.02: Heat source: get a Mr. Buddy junior portable propane heater. Mine cost abouyt $85 a few years ago. They use the 1lb propane canisters. It shouild take care of a good sozed room if your insulate it. Get a battery powered CO2 detector. Cooking: I've never used a jet boil, but how effective will it be for cooking for 4 people? get a 2 burner coleman stove that uses the 1lb propane canisters also. You didn't say why you wanted a MkII? You've already got 2 good pistols. I would recommend a Ruger 10/22: - cost less or equal to a Mk II, so if it's stolen, you're only out $120. - You've already got 2 pistols, so CCW isn't an issue. - If you wanted to shoot any small game, it's easier with a longer sight radius. - While a .22 isn't the most effective manstopper, the almost nonexistent recoil allows for very accurate shots and fast follow up. With a few 25 rd mags you can lay down a lot of lead, very cheaply (1000rds= $20). For food, when canned goods go on sale, stock up. Some stores around here sometimes have 10 for $10 sales. Don't forget the TP. Lots of TP. Civil unrest: a police scanner would be invaluable, but I'd get that after you have the basic needs met. For lighting, consider the cheap oil lamps you can get at walmart for $5. The bottles of oil go for around $3-4. I have a 4 D cell LED lantern, it puts out just a little light. Good enough for general backgournd light, but not enough for any type of work. I have a mixture of battery powered lanterns, oil lanterns (better than lamps as they're more stable and you can hang them) and candles. How about a battery powered TV? I picked one up for $35. |
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So here is what I'm thinking: I'm going to look at a portable heater, stove, and lantern; the kind that use the 1lb LPG canisters and could be adapted to bulk canisters. That will take care of heating, cooking, and lighting in one fell swoop. I'm also going to order some MWCs. ROMAD-556: On that website I don't have to by the lids separately do I. I see they're listed that way, but I don't know if those are spares or not. Also on the list are some candles, and while I'm out shopping I'll look at LED lanterns. In addition I'm going to get some tarps and plastic sheeting for temporary structure repairs. I'm going to work on this today and I'll let you know what I find. |
| After Katrina laundry was a big problem.Its wasnt hot by local standards(low 80's in september), but dirty underwear and Tees built up fast.You might want to look into some polypropylene undies and tees of the appropriate weight.They will wash and dry much easier than cotton. No point in getting diaper rash. Does your apartment have a balcony or patio. Does the balcony or patio get good Seattle sun?Could you gather rain water?Have you stocked enough feminine products?Maybe some unscented baby wipes as well to preserve water.Fire control was mentioned earlier.Maybe a few five gallon buckets with water and cheap blanket inside as a standby?If it freezes in winter add salt. |
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Don't forget an old fashioned hand can-opener(2) and or a good knife that will open a can. Everybody always forgets this. Cheap can food so you can buy more. Ramen/dry foods last a long time. MREs, I like to have enough for each person to live off of for at least a week, then dip into other supplies. Buy purified/sterilized water in gallon jugs.(as much as you can keep around) Water purification tablets. Medicine/Advil/Tylenol/cough syrup decent first aid(lots of bandages and antibacterial) peroxide and SuperGlue for big cuts(but learn how to use it right first because it can cause more harm than good) If you get another gun make it the 10/22. decent price on both ammo and gun. try to get a thousands rounds per weapon. Good ammo that will last. Gun oils and lubes. Don't worry about gold/silver on your budget. Get lots of .22 ammo for your 10/22(3,000) That way you have some to spread around. You can use it for defense/trade for other goods or hunting game. Buy lots of cheap liquor(whiskey/vodka) Good for trading, cleaning wounds, staying warm, pain medication, and moral if need be. Some people say to get a carton of smokes to trade for goods, but I would rather buy more liquor. Radios are important. One to listen for broadcast and another to communicate with others. I like CBs. lots of batteries. Lots of cheap toilet paper. Go to flea markets to se what you can find. CBs, flare gun, etc... Everybody else covered Lights and Blankets. MAKE THE BEST USE OUT OF EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. |
The MWC come complete with lids. What you see listed separately are spare parts. Also the price you see is the delivered price...no shipping charges added.
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Get a lot of rice. It's got a long shelf life, it's really cheap and it's easy to prepare. 100 lbs of it won't take up much space and it'll keep you fed for a long time. Ramen is ok but it's not as good for you and, as cheap and convenient as it is, it's not as cheap as rice. Canned food is always good to stock up on. I try to keep a lot of tuna, vienna sausages, chicken and spam on hand all the time. I also keep a ton of different vegetables and beans. Dried beans are cheaper but canned beans require no prep. Stock both. Dried and powdered stuff is always good. Dried potatoes, powdered milk, powdered eggs, jerky, beans, pasta are all good to pack the pantry with. Use your preps regularly and rotate them out and you won't have to worry about them going bad. You'll also be eating what you're used to if you ever have to live off of them. I've also got a few cases of MREs and a week's worth of Mountain House but those are going to be the last thing that I eat. They are really expensive and if you get a vacuum sealer you don't really even need them. You can make your own for a fraction of the cost. My general rule of thumb is that if it has to be refrigerated then I'm not going to count on it in my preps. I would probably take the first $250 that you plan to spend and go on a shopping spree at the grocery store. Just make sure that you know what you're going to be getting beforehand. Water storage is important, too. The 5 gallon containers are good but you might also think about getting a 55 gallon food grade barrel or two. They shouldn't be that expensive. Call your local soda bottler and they should have some. Just take them to the car wash to wash them out if you don't have a pressure washer. Also be sure and keep something around to purify it with. Bleach is what I use. There are some threads here with other options, though. You should probably have a filter around, too. That's probably the most expensive item on the list. The biggest problem that I see living in the city is finding a water source if the water ever gets shut off. Having a good filter won't mean much if you can't find water to filter in the first place. The .22 with some ammo is a good idea. If you're on a budget it's the best option. For less than $200 you can pick up a used one and several thousand rounds for it. I've got a Mossberg Plinkster that I bought at Wal-Mart brand new for less than $100 after tax. It's extremely reliable and I'm not tempted to spend money on all of those expensive mods that you can get for the 10/22  . The only problem I've had is with bad magazines but with Wal-Mart's return policy you can just keep returning them until you have a bunch of 100% reliable ones. There are plenty of other options for .22s out there, too. You might think about getting some more 9mm hollow points but those will eat into your budget fast. You've got a lot of magazines and as long as you can fill them all up with quality ammo then you've got an excellent base to work with. The other thing that you want to concentrate on is first aid. Stock up on over the counter stuff like cold, allergy, anti-diarrhea, headache and heartburn medicine. Also keep some bandages and disinfectants around. Some face masks are good to have around, too. Be able to treat everything from broken bones to the flu. Also, make sure that everyone that you plan to take with you knows how to treat them as well as you do. You might be the one that ends up with the broken leg after the big one hits. Fuel is another big one. Propane is what I center most of my "the power is out" preps around. Even with that I just have a couple of stoves, my grill and a space heater. The temperatures here don't get that extreme so I'm not too worried about it. Just buy a few big tanks and a bunch of the small ones with some adapters. I've got adapters that let me fill the small ones with the big ones and use the big ones on the stoves that are meant for the little ones. You'll also want to store some gas. Even if you don't have a generator you never know when you won't be able to go to the gas station to fill your car up. If nothing else you might be able to sell or trade it. After you buy all that stuff you probably won't have much money left. Some rechargeable gmrs/frs radios are good to have around. The ones I use can also run off of AAAs in case I can't recharge them. You can also get one of those super radios that do a little bit of everything with a crank to power it. Most of them have an LED light, some kind of siren and SW1/SW2/AM/FM freqs. You can also get them with a port to charge your cell phone to make an emergency call. I've even seen them with little TVs on them. I don't have my HAM license and I've never really looked into getting it so I'm not sure how much a decent setup would run after you pay to get licensed. |
Yup, candles suck. We had our power out for a few weeks last winter. LED lanterns and a couple of Dietz lanters were very nice. The Dietz especially since it heated as well. ETA: Also, get a indoor rated propane/kerosene heater. Yeah, coats and sleeping bags will do for a while, but the cold will drain you long term. |
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lots of great suggestions here. I would add this, personal comfort items, "hygene" items are a must for any long term problem. the ladies need "special" items, make sure they have them set aside. +1 on also some window coverings to block out light at night "yours" is important. when your trying to be low profile, nothing says "rob me" more than light in your house when everyone else is dark and hungry, +1 on the camp stove fuel, be carful when cooking foods that have a lot of aroma, again you will attract a crowed when your cooking bacon and everyone else is eating garbage. while gasoline IS IMPORTANT, make sure you have a way to store it safely. nothing will ruin your day faster than a gas fire in your garage during normal times. |
I can't very well do that, it is their house. I ordered two cases of MRE's from Cheaper Than Dirt today. So far that's about 220 of this months budget spent. In addition to what I had before I can now add: 30 9hr candles 4 MCW's 2 cases MRE's 3 fuel canisters The last 30 for this month will probably go for canned food. |
I think that is excellent for a foreseeable disaster like a hurricane, but for an earthquake I don't think it would be practical. |
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Being in the same area as you I prep for many of the same things. One of our bigest problems is Ice storms, wind and snow are bad anough but add 5" of ice to every one of our pritty trees and you can see were a lot of power lines go poof and add the inabilty to drive any were... $1000.00 Plan. Food: $100.00 Go to Costco Buy 2 50# bags of white rice $25.00 Buy 20# assorted beans $15.00 Get a Case of Tuna $20.00 Case of Raman Nodles$10.00 $10.00 hard candies $10.00 Bulk spagette noodles 10 for $10.00 Spagettie sause. That should last you GF and rommies more than a while. Water: If you can't find them close drive to Woodinvie to the Sir-Pluse Shop by 522 and buy 3 30 gal water barels: $10.00 ea = $30.00 (thats what they cost 2 years ago don't quote me on that now). Hit any big sports store up this weekend and do the Labor Day sales: $20.00 2 burrner propane Colamn stove. $10.00 hose adapter. 3x Propane tanks 20 pound full $50.00 ea. $20.00 cook set/mis cooking items. $200.00 total. Gas: How much fuel that VW hold? 15? Buy two 6 gal gas can's and fill. can's $10.00 ea, gas $3/galx12=36: $56.00 (or drive you self to monroe some time and I'll give you a couple MFC's I'm dropping most of my gas stores and have empty cans). Emergency gear: Buy a bin: $5.00 Hit Albertsons 10/$10 asle up and put together a hygine kit: Tooth brush, soap, tp, baby wipes ect. build 3 of them (You GF room mate). As GF what she uses for girly things and buy a pack of those (man up buy condoms while your at it!). $30.00. Get a gal of bleach $10.00. Go to REI this weekend again sales, get First Need Water filter + one extra filter: $125.00 normal will filter 100 gal ez (see above amount of stored water). TP buy a case of generic and store it on top of bin: $10.00 Put old pair of boots/shoes in bin with a full change of clothes and a raty old coat. Free. throw in $20 extra here for something you may see you want: Total $200.00. Heat: Emergency hit here in the winter and it will get cold, don't play like the moron's who killed them selfs by burning there grill in the house for heat (I shit you not that happened this year along with a idiot the firedepartment found with a generator running in his living room, he was dead to). May be to late this time of year to fine one on sale but look get an INDOOR rated propane space heater (rember the bottles from above?) $125.00ish is normal price. Total $125.00 Reserve cash $200 in small bills. Hit Crags list for a generator here is one I saw after 30 sec: seattle.craigslist.org/tac/for/410915417.html $175.00 use the fuel you set for the car if your gona stay in, or use it to top off car if your gona leave. That total is $886.00 take the GF out with the rest and get Pie. what I posted is prity basic but it gives you 90 gal of water fuel to cook and heat with, gas to run a genny or bug wiht, the ability to maintain normal with power and while rice and bean aint much fun 100 pounds o rice will go a long way. Josh |
Why's that? In the event of an earthquake, the bathtub is likely to survive, even if there's major damage to the house. And there'll be a couple of days before the water in the plumbing gets icky. So you would want to store that water quickly. Speaking of water mains breaking, lots of people have mentioned toilet paper... but NO ONE has mentioned toilets! (I scanned & may have missed it.) What if you've scavenged all your water from the toilet tanks, and the water has shut off? What if the mains have broken and you cannot flush? You need somewhere to take the Number Two. There are several suppliers, and many different designs, for emergency toilets. The simplest design involves a toilet seat over a 5 gallon bucket, with a trash bag inside. There are chemicals available to "sweeten" the odors. |
| Also if you are worried about heat and allready have a coleman stove that uses the 1lb propane cylinders, look into getting a Mr. Heater indoor propane heater. If you are only heating a small space it will get the job done to the point it will drive you out of the room. I bought one a few years ago from the SG for $70 and have seen them on sale at walmart for about the same price from time to time. |
I was planning on getting one of those. It can wait though until it starts to get cold. I'm working on food right now. |
| I haven't had the time to research your post completely as I am posting remotely, but I can't help but notice that you don't have a way to engage a target with a reasonable expectation of hit probablility. You might be ok with a handgun if you are really good with it, but you need a rifle/shotgun with a decent sight radius to even shoot across the street under stress. Remember that we are not talking about target shooting-speed is important here. If your neighbors go feral on yo' azz because you have food and they don't, you will wish like hell that you had even a lever action rifle. They'll have a rifle/shotgun, bet on it. |
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Well I've come a little ways... 4 MWC containers 2 30gal water barrels (not filled yet) Adding canned food to storage Mr Heater Buddy 20lb propane tank Candles Next month I'll get... Extra Propane 30 LED lantern D-batteries When Cabelas opens their Lacey store... Propane Stove |