Posted: 10/11/2011 12:51:55 PM EDT
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What would be the largest size game you would consider hunting with a .223 round?
I am fairly new to the AR platform (and loving every second of it  ) and have a DDM4 with a 1in7 barrel, which should allow me to stabilize a fairly heavy round.
Can you confidently go after something bigger than javelina? (some of the big ones max out around 100lbs) and up to what size game would be your limit? I have a white tail hunt coming up and I'm tempted to use the M4 instead of my .257 or .30-06. Thoughts? - Thanks |
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I think that many people underestimate the stopping power of a well-placed .223 round. I think that .223 would work well for hog and deer. But you need to make sure your shot placement is spot on because the .223 will not cause as much damage as larger calibers.
I’ve done really well with 55gr SP. Taken deer out to 300 yrds, dropped some of them instantly, other run a short distance and collapse. Beyond that I am much more cautious about pulling the trigger because confidently placing the bullet is harder at 300+ yards. It’s all about shot placement and I’m really confident with .223 out to that 300yrds (yardage decreases depending on wind). I can shoot prairie dogs all day at 300yrds and closer in good conditions. But after 300yrds it gets a lot more challenging with a .223, as the 55gr starts to drop off, get pushed by wind a lot more, and loose velocity in the upper 300 range. So I personally wouldn't pull the trigger on a 300+ yrd shot unless it was dead calm and I had been practicing with the rifle a lot prior to the shot and I knew that I could thread the needle, even then I’d really have to think about it. With a heavier round you would get less drift but more arch in your shot at any given distance compared to a 55gr. Regardless of your bullet choice shot placement is key with a .223. At the very least use a 55gr SP don’t go lighter or use something highly frangible, like a V-Max. You can kill a deer with an arrow fired from a traditional bow with only 40 lbs of draw weight. It’s going to take time for it to bleed out but it will die. An arrow and a .223 round are a lot different, but the .223 round has a heck of a lot more stopping power then the arrow . But if you hit shoulder you won't get much penetration and the animal will suffer, possibly get away. Just know your limit and make sure you can put the shot on target and the animal in question will die with less suffering than being hit by an arrow. |
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With a good bullet, 223 can take any whitetail at reasonable distances. Check out the posts by CapitolP , and see what he's getting done with Barnes TSX on both deer and hogs. There are a lot of other bullets out there that are excellent as well, but from what I'm reading the TSX is tops.
I dropped a 200+ pound boar with M193 about a month ago, but I wouldn't suggest just anyone go trying to do that every day. It was at about 35 yards from a 24" tube, and he was DRT, never made a foot of forward progress. I shot him just a little behind the shoulder as he was quartering away. I didn't look inside him, but judging by the amount of blood lost though his mouth/nose, his lungs were gone. Again, close range, long bbl (higher velocity/ better fragmentation), and the M193 might not do the same thing next time. |
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You do need to check the regs where you are looking to hunt. Many places require a .243 or bigger bullet for big game.With that said, yes you can shoot a deer or pig with it. And yes, it will die. But is their sufficient STOPPING power?? Wild animals are sometimes amazingly tough, and their physical conditioning is a thing to behold. if you can confidently put a bullet in the head every time, then sure, you will stop them. But if you get it a little off, you may just maim the animal, or be chasing and second, then third, and fifth shooting it to finish it off. Not good....
For short range on smaller deer, its' a decent round. But it's no 30-06, and never will be. For big bucks, open ground longer shooting, lots of places to have to chase a deer? I'd stick to what knocks them over. For hogs, it's a matter of WHY you are shooting them. Depredation??? Then dump 3 taps into him, and let him fall. Don't even waste money on real hunting ammo, just use the regular ammo.If you are trophy/ big boar hunting?? You might not like the lack of sheer stopping power when compared to a .30 round of 150-180 grain weight. |
| My mother shot a BIg 7 and a 10 point last year here in Texas and both only ran 25 yards. She was using cheapest Brass 55 grain Soft-point ammo form Academy. I think it was like 5.99 on sale when my Dad bought it for her. Now she is shooting a Rossi Single shot Youth model Rifle, but still ti proved to me the .233 has more than enought take down power. The key is just a well placed shot. Both of her shots were good lung shots at 65 and 75 yards! A good heart would probably run even less. This year I'm going to use my AR15 I built to take one also. I will probably let my kids take with it too. It has a lot less kick than my Remy 700 30-06! Even my 5 Year old daughter likes to shoot it! |
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There's a thread over in the Deer Hunting forum that deals with this subject. Very interesting stuff since I'm also considering this for my 11 year old daughter to hunt with this year.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_23/626832_223__Deer_Hunting_Rounds.html |
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When all you have is a marginal shot on a rapidly fleeing animal do you really want a marginally performing round?
I don't care about how many elk or bear have been killed with 22 caliber cartridges. I'm talking about running shots on trophy sized animals. And yes I'm talking from experience. Every successful hunter I've known in my 4+ decades of hunting wants a rifle cartridge combination using the .308 or 30-06 class of cartridges or larger. JMOFWIW |
| Coyote. Yea, I know it's legal for deer some places, and I'm sure folks use it every season. But, I'm old school and consider the 30-30 in leverguns, and the '06 in bolt guns as "deer" calibers. I just think of the .223 as either an antipersonel or varmit (sometimes the same thing) round. |
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Quoted:
I grew up hunting whitetail in Texas with a .222 softpoint. Dropped every one. Shot placement is key. I've heard this statement from quite a number of individuals in the past, and have seen those same people wound and loose the trail of said wounded game. Also our deer and the deer in most/ all of the Northern U.S. are larger than those German Shepard size deer roaming the woods down South. I've personally killed deer that required 3 healthy adults to load in a pickup here in PA and there are larger deer than ours. I've also blown the hearts out of several large bucks with a 30-06 that still had the ability to run 50 to 75 yards before they collapsed and died, a couple of them weren't. easy to find. The only shot that I have ever seen take down a large deer reliably every time is a spine shot, Even a head shot deer can flop around for 20 or 30 yards. I think I've made or seen just about every possible shot that could be made on a game animal and there is only on rule that matters to me, which is. Use enough gun to make a quick and humane kill! Shot placement is very important too, but novice hunters seldom have enough experience and hence even less self control to make the perfect shot. Remember the 5.56 is a round which is designed to wound the enemy, in order to take three individuals off the battlefield. The 30-06 and .308 are designed to kill with one shot. Expanding bullet types don't make smaller caliber weapons that much better a cartridge either, I've seen these types of bullets blow up on bone and be deflected by a piece brush and cause a minor wound that resulted in an animals slow but likely death due to gangrene. Yes I've found many animals in the woods that were dead from such types of wounds, and heard the sorry excuses of hunters who made these types of shots. Watching an animal thrash around in an agonizing death is just awful and should always be avoided unless one is truly a careless individual! Don't be that person! Use enough gun. |
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I think it's a matter of will and work and why would someone use it?
If .223 is your largest rifle then I guess you have to go with it. I am sure that with a hunting bullet (not fmj) that it will kill game just as dead as a larger round. Let's be realistic, not every shot made on game has perfect shot placement. I think a larger, more powerful round gives you more room for error. Is it ideal for deer sized game? I think most would agree that there are other options that are more suitable. On a different note, what is up with people thinking that a .308 is equal to a 30-06 ? You can get factory loaded ammo all the way up to 220 grains in 30-06 and in bullets over 165 grains the 30-06 is consistently faster. I know the military uses 308 but that doesn't make it the magic deer/elk slayer. |
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Fuel for the fire!
Both deer below were taken with Rossi .223 with a 3x9 scope and both only went 20 yards before falling. Anyone who says a .233 should not be used for deer is wrong! No messed up meat in the shoulders at all , but the chesh cavity was just pouring blood! The .223 really is a meat axe! One shot at 70 yards and the other at 180 yards. http://grangergang.com/photos/Ma_Patrick_Deer.jpg |
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Have only used it on Texas White tail and Axis does that dressed out weight was 80or so pounds. Was .223 fired from a Savage bolt heavy barrel - bullet was 69 gr. MatchKing. All shots were head or high neck shots from 100 to 250 yards. All dead right there. BUT have witnessed a doe, screened in light brush, hit with a .223 hollow point from an AR and bullet deflected and took out one eye and she took off running .....bad feelings. That shooter competes and wins in across the course matches up to 600 yards with that AR. We were able to watch her and came upon her, about 300 yards away - standing there, dazed, then, a Chest shot took her down. The shooter and the rest of us felt terrible. Later that season, last year, I chose to use a .243 - still shot deer in high neck but wanted plenty of shock power. I am a usually calm shot and we , regularly, shoot eggs at 200 yards with .204 and .223.
so, will I still use it - probably, but not ever if I plan on shooting any animal over 100 pounds dressed weight - that means, I would not use it in the brush country of South Texas. Only Hill Country deer. Absolutely will use my .308 or 7-08 when shooting Axis bucks - chest shots only. |
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Quoted:
My brother has killed more than a dozen deer with .223 using a 55 grain V-Max. Most of them went about two steps. He likes to shoot them in the neck. I have a friend in TX who's the same. I've heard tell of elk being taken with the .223, but whitetail is probably as big as I'd be comfortable with. |
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I have used a .223 on Mule Deer twice, worked both times. First one was about 100yds nice hear&lung shot with a 62gr soft point, the buck went 10yds then collapsed dead. Left a baseball sized exit hole, and tore everything up in its path. Next one was at 250yds and I hit him a little far back and paralyzed his back half, but he was anchored right there and a quick follow up shot to the neck ended it.
I have shot deer with 30-06, .308, .243, 7mm08, and .223. It is mostly about shot placement, and having the right ammo for the lighter calibers. |
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Quoted:
When all you have is a marginal shot on a rapidly fleeing animal do you really want a marginally performing round? I don't care about how many elk or bear have been killed with 22 caliber cartridges. I'm talking about running shots on trophy sized animals. And yes I'm talking from experience. Every successful hunter I've known in my 4+ decades of hunting wants a rifle cartridge combination using the .308 or 30-06 class of cartridges or larger. JMOFWIW Why would an ethical hunter take a marginal shot on a fleeing deer with any caliber? If a shot is marginal you shouldn't take it even with a .458 win mag. With proper bullet selection and shot placement the .223 will kill deer just fine. If you can't pick the proper bullet for the game you are shooting and then wait for a suitable shot you have no business in the woods. I've seen way to many deer wounded by idiots that thought they could hit a running deer the by using too small of a caliber. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
When all you have is a marginal shot on a rapidly fleeing animal do you really want a marginally performing round? I don't care about how many elk or bear have been killed with 22 caliber cartridges. I'm talking about running shots on trophy sized animals. And yes I'm talking from experience. Every successful hunter I've known in my 4+ decades of hunting wants a rifle cartridge combination using the .308 or 30-06 class of cartridges or larger. JMOFWIW Why would an ethical hunter take a marginal shot on a fleeing deer with any caliber? If a shot is marginal you shouldn't take it even with a .458 win mag. With proper bullet selection and shot placement the .223 will kill deer just fine. If you can't pick the proper bullet for the game you are shooting and then wait for a suitable shot you have no business in the woods. I've seen way to many deer wounded by idiots that thought they could hit a running deer the by using too small of a caliber. Well said. Do the animal a favor and kill it quickly, not shoot it with cheap FMJ. |
| Not to knock you guys from Texas, but your deer down there are about as big as a medium size dog. Most deer in the south are. A 223 might work down there, but not everywhere. I wouldn't use a 223 on anything up here but varmint. That and in allot of states, it is not large enough per state regs. There is a method to their madness. Its not ethical to most hunters that I know to try and drop a 260lbs deer with a 22 cal bullet. Sure many deer have been taken with a 223 or 22 mag, but its on the lowest of the spectrum. It would be like trying to goose hunt with a .410. Could it be done? I am sure. Is it even close to being enough? Hell no its not. Use enough gun for the job. If its because of recoil, use a limb saver or man up. The 223 does a poor job as a man stopper, let alone large game. |