Posted: 7/6/2010 5:47:59 AM EDT
|
Hey folks, been a good while since I've posted anything so I thought this would be a good spot for this. I looked through the subjects and didn't see anything titled as such so forgive me if this has been beat into the ground.
In a couple of years, I will be in a financial position to buy land and I want a log cabin built on this land. I've been doing research and part of this is asking if anyone here has one and if so who did you go with and are you happy with the quality of materials and how it was built? I have looked at a couple of manufacturers and they all look great but I'm wanting the best quality I can find as I plan on this being my one and only home so I want it to last the rest of my life, however long that is going to be. I appreciate any and all info on this matter. Thanks a lot! Take care. |
|
I live in one but I am biased do to the fact that we manufacture and build log homes for a living. My advice is to shop around and be very careful. Our industry is full of operations that act like crooked used car salesmen.
General things that are warning signs... Anyone who tells you you can assemble it yourself in a few weekends. Anyone who says we will throw in "X" if you sign right now. They should offer the best deal right up front. When most companies say they will turn key a house, they really mean they will hire a subcontractor that they may know nothing about and then get a commision off that contractor. Anyone who tells you a log structure is cheaper to build than conventional. When you build a hunting cabin on the weekend out of sapplings this might be true. But a quality modern log home will cost more. It doesn't have to be a lot more but it will be more. The industry as a whole is being killed right now, us included. In the past we didn't advertise or go to log home shows and we built 50 to 60 structures a year. This year we are at a whopping six so far. Things in this country are far worse than people can guess. Our accountant handles many accounts from businesses bigger than ours and he says we are in better shape than most. That is fucking scary. |
|
Thanks, I certainly hope they do pick up. This is a family business and has been around for 30 years. My wife and I came into the picture about 9 years ago to help her grandparents retire. It has been very generous to us for these years, but you can't change the reality of our economy.
Oh' well I am still young enough that the military will take me back if I had to. I have always wanted to see Afghanistan. |
|
I have been told that ceder is naturally bug resistant.
I have also been told to avoid pine since it is not bug resistant. again I am no expert either way. I do think these are interesting Log siding Could go very well with a repo mobile home 
|
|
The bug resistant thing is a favorite of people trying to sell cedar. Which for a log I personally consider inferior.
What does the most to protect your home is modern building practises. A good foundation, taking the steps necessary to control moisture, and modern building materials are the real secret. There are many homes on dirt and rock foundations around here that are several hundred years old. These homes are usually in dey areas and have stone foundations that raise the logs off the ground. |
|
I love the look,style and feel of a log home but do not have the time or interest in the maintenance that goes with them. When I built my house I used everything I could on the exterior with the lowest maintenance stone,brick,hardy board. All of the painting that could ever need to be done on my house can be done with 5 gallons of paint. I did however make extensive use of spruce, hickory, knotty pine,peeled pine logs, stone, inside of my home giving the feel without the maintenance.
I have read that the fastest growing segment of the log home industry is repair and log replacement sector. That is not to condemn the construction technique in any way but many people are willing to embrace the demands of log construction when they build but lose interest several years in. Build with substantial overhangs all the way around your house to reduce problems. |
|
Quoted:
log homes are not cost effective No, they sure aren't but they damn sure look nice and just has a feel to them that's so comfortable its hard to beat. We started looking at log ourselves but eventually the money dragon, cost to complete and cost to maintain, leaned us to traditional frame with insulated fake log siding, but that sure doesn't mean we don't appreciate a nice log place. |
|
Quoted:
The bug resistant thing is a favorite of people trying to sell cedar. Which for a log I personally consider inferior. Really, do you offer an alternative, or just criticism? I suppose all those ceder fence posts all across our nation are using inferior wood? 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The bug resistant thing is a favorite of people trying to sell cedar. Which for a log I personally consider inferior. Really, do you offer an alternative, or just criticism? I suppose all those ceder fence posts all across our nation are using inferior wood? Did I touch a nerve here? I apologize. Are you in the industry? Have a cedar home perhaps? All Those cedar fence post are not part of log structures. Now around here we only have eastern cedar, which makes a fair post, but a terrible wall log. While all cedar is rot resistant to a degree what it does do that I don't like is twist, bow and crack much more than many other woods available. So you end up with a lot more movement and problems at usually a 50% premium. That is for starters. When a log home company uses cedar it is usually either western cedar or white cedar. However most of us (manufacturers) don't use it at all. Now I will let you decide why, but I will give you a few hints. Cedar is not hard to get and the cost isn't a factor because some folks will pay. However we offer a lifetime guarantee on our log structures. So you do the math. Surely you realize that not everything that is great in one application is good in another. For instance I will tell you the main reasons people around here use cedar, and locust, for post. They grow very rapidly as a pest in their fields, and they are free. As it is a fence post and not a structure you trust to keep you warm and dry, they work very well. I don't have a problem with you and I don't know why you have an attitude. This is what I do for a living. We manufacture and erect log homes. I thought that the folks in this thread would like the opinion of someone who is typing from his desk in his office while watching his guys cut out a log structure. Also for the record we have used cedar before, and learned from our experiences. To address the cost effectiveness: I tell all of my customers that log homes cost more than conventional building. Always. There are a few things that can help mitigate these cost such as the type of roof structure used, but overall they cost more. They are also worth more in the end, if there was such a thing as a housing market anymore. They do resist gunfire better. I need to build a wall and shoot it with various ammo to see just how well it performs. -Canoeguy |
|
If a log home is what you want, then get one. IMHO Choose the builder first. Not just any carpenter for your build. The design must allow for expansion and contraction of the logs. But still remain dry and tight. Minimum 2' roof overhang all around(4' even better) Use top quality gaskets and caulk Keep logs up off ground on solid foundation....don't stack firewood against wall, ect Regular outside maint to logs will keep beautiful. Metal roof is nice I built this log cabin in 1983. I spend as much time as possible there.  |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The bug resistant thing is a favorite of people trying to sell cedar. Which for a log I personally consider inferior. Really, do you offer an alternative, or just criticism? I suppose all those ceder fence posts all across our nation are using inferior wood? Did I touch a nerve here? I apologize. Are you in the industry? Have a cedar home perhaps? All Those cedar fence post are not part of log structures. Now around here we only have eastern cedar, which makes a fair post, but a terrible wall log. While all cedar is rot resistant to a degree what it does do that I don't like is twist, bow and crack much more than many other woods available. So you end up with a lot more movement and problems at usually a 50% premium. That is for starters. When a log home company uses cedar it is usually either western cedar or white cedar. However most of us (manufacturers) don't use it at all. Now I will let you decide why, but I will give you a few hints. Cedar is not hard to get and the cost isn't a factor because some folks will pay. However we offer a lifetime guarantee on our log structures. So you do the math. Surely you realize that not everything that is great in one application is good in another. For instance I will tell you the main reasons people around here use cedar, and locust, for post. They grow very rapidly as a pest in their fields, and they are free. As it is a fence post and not a structure you trust to keep you warm and dry, they work very well. I don't have a problem with you and I don't know why you have an attitude. This is what I do for a living. We manufacture and erect log homes. I thought that the folks in this thread would like the opinion of someone who is typing from his desk in his office while watching his guys cut out a log structure. Also for the record we have used cedar before, and learned from our experiences. To address the cost effectiveness: I tell all of my customers that log homes cost more than conventional building. Always. There are a few things that can help mitigate these cost such as the type of roof structure used, but overall they cost more. They are also worth more in the end, if there was such a thing as a housing market anymore. They do resist gunfire better. I need to build a wall and shoot it with various ammo to see just how well it performs. -Canoeguy All those words and not a single alternative... hummm If not ceder... then what do you recommend? and Why? |
|
Ok Natty,
I personally prefer white pine for most applications. Most especially wall logs. They stay straight look good and weather well. Will they rot if thrown on the ground? absolutely. I recommend you don't throw them on the ground. We also do structures out of western hem-fir. I am not a huge fan of this wood because although it is stronger it bows and twist about 100% more than white pine. We do always use this for ridge beams and girders where the adjacent members really hold it into position. We also have a system where the long lengths of these logs are necessary. I didn't realize I was in general discussion and really don't want a pissing match. Natty, I am sure you are very good at whatever you do and have your own opinions about that. I'm sorry that my expertise about logs differs from yours, I can only speak from my personal experience of manufacturing about 400 and personally building 300 or so of those. I certainly am not going to waste anyone elses time in some tiff on the net. If any member would like to discuss log homes in more depth I would gladly send you my number in an instant message and we can talk for hours. I have intentionally kept my business's identity out of this so as not to make a sales pitch. However I am always happy to discuss and answer any log home questions. -Canoeguy |
|
My experence with logs has been pretty good. The cabin above is made of 8"x8" eastern hemlock logs. So far I have had no issues of twisting or bows. The interior walls are 1" white pine(0 problems). Now how about bugs? I found carpenter ants in one log. So I put up a rain gutter to eliminate water from hitting the log then I killed them in place.( this was a few years ago). Now I have these 2 bumble bees that keep drilling perfectly round holes in a bottom log. I tried just filling the hole but they came back and drilled another. Any better ideas out there? |
|
Quoted:
So how do you combat termites with white pine? Most localities are going to require soil poisoning by code. If they don't, do it anyway. The secret to any insect problems is keeping it dry and not providing a hotel. As noted above with the carpenter ants, once the logs were made to be dry the problem did not return. In our thirty years we have not had one case of termites. Not because of wood selection but because of modern building practises and some design elements in place in the homes. Stop any damp rotting logs and likely you will stop the bugs. I am not so much concerned with large overhangs as I am eliminating any horizontal flat surfaces. For instance all of our dovetails are cut to slope away from the structure. I did talk to a fellow who had a terrible case of termites in his home. In his situation he had a shared family cabin and his brother stacked a bunch of old firewood directly against the house and left it for years. Well he introduced the termites and created a dark damp area next to the house. In the winter I put some firewood on the porch, but come spring it goes back to the pile. Generally speaking the precautions are the same for any structure that is built conventionally. Unless your house is concrete it is mostly wood behind that vinyl siding. Except for Wood Boring Bees. These fellows don't play fair and will bore into anything including pressure treated. They prefer to go vertical so headers are most at risk. There is no product that I have had feedback on actually working that can be applied beforehand. There is supposedly some powder that can be sprayed into the hole that kills the bee and the larva. Most people use a badminton racket. One guy I know uses .22 rat shot. The trick is to take them out early and often and break their life cycle. To the poster above whose hemlock logs have not twisted: It sounds like your logs are well supported by being stacked together. Like I said, we use hemlock, and it is a good material. I am also sure there are cedar homes built that are fantastic. The one thing I know for sure is that wood will do what it wants and can be unpredictable. I am certainly not claiming to know everything, so take my posts as opinion based on personal experience. |
|
Maintenance is the killer. I have a wood deck. When I built it I knew it would need staining every 2 years or so to keep it looking good. Every 2 years wasn't enough and it is going gray. My buddy owns a log home and when I was considering one he advised me strongly not to do it. He had to rechink his house which was expensive and time consuming due to bugs finding a pathway in through tiny cracks in the wood, the interior finish needed re-doing where it was sun exposed. He implored me to learn from his mistakes and not to do it.
Look into the concrete log homes for a more maintenance free exterior, while preserving the look and feel of wood. |
|
Quoted:
Maintenance is the killer. I have a wood deck. When I built it I knew it would need staining every 2 years or so to keep it looking good. Every 2 years wasn't enough and it is going gray. My buddy owns a log home and when I was considering one he advised me strongly not to do it. He had to rechink his house which was expensive and time consuming due to bugs finding a pathway in through tiny cracks in the wood, the interior finish needed re-doing where it was sun exposed. He implored me to learn from his mistakes and not to do it. Look into the concrete log homes for a more maintenance free exterior, while preserving the look and feel of wood. At our place in the country, we just went to the new composite deck material, replacing the old wood deck. That's pretty nice stuff, zero maintenance and has a good wood look and feel to it. It is expensive though. Tj |
|
I saw some homes made by these folks when I was up in Sterling Alaska this past week.
Pioneer Log Homes of BC And I got to inspect one up close. To my untrained eye, it seemed VERY well made. |
|
Quoted: The hemlock logs above were spiked together and all thread rods installed to allow tightening down later as the logs aged(dried/shrank). This was accepted practice 30 years ago. But it has a flaw in that the spikes keep the logs in place but allows air infiltration between logs over time. Also the caulk used back then was not as flexible as caulks available today. The fix was fairly simple. I recently began re-caulking all of the log seams. For a small cabin like this, simple and cost is low.Quoted: So how do you combat termites with white pine? Most localities are going to require soil poisoning by code. If they don't, do it anyway. The secret to any insect problems is keeping it dry and not providing a hotel. As noted above with the carpenter ants, once the logs were made to be dry the problem did not return. In our thirty years we have not had one case of termites. Not because of wood selection but because of modern building practises and some design elements in place in the homes. Stop any damp rotting logs and likely you will stop the bugs. I am not so much concerned with large overhangs as I am eliminating any horizontal flat surfaces. For instance all of our dovetails are cut to slope away from the structure. I did talk to a fellow who had a terrible case of termites in his home. In his situation he had a shared family cabin and his brother stacked a bunch of old firewood directly against the house and left it for years. Well he introduced the termites and created a dark damp area next to the house. In the winter I put some firewood on the porch, but come spring it goes back to the pile. Generally speaking the precautions are the same for any structure that is built conventionally. Unless your house is concrete it is mostly wood behind that vinyl siding. Except for Wood Boring Bees. These fellows don't play fair and will bore into anything including pressure treated. They prefer to go vertical so headers are most at risk. There is no product that I have had feedback on actually working that can be applied beforehand. There is supposedly some powder that can be sprayed into the hole that kills the bee and the larva. Most people use a badminton racket. One guy I know uses .22 rat shot. The trick is to take them out early and often and break their life cycle. To the poster above whose hemlock logs have not twisted: It sounds like your logs are well supported by being stacked together. Like I said, we use hemlock, and it is a good material. I am also sure there are cedar homes built that are fantastic. The one thing I know for sure is that wood will do what it wants and can be unpredictable. I am certainly not claiming to know everything, so take my posts as opinion based on personal experience. |
This is e-Log. 1/4" wood veneer on insulating styrofoam applied to T&G plywood. www.e-logsiding.com That goes on an insulated/TyVek'd stick frame house. Finished inside conventionally. Northern Michigan seemed to call for the most insulation we could get. We trusted the builder to do a good job, (still do) and the manufacturer of the product to stand behind it, (they do). After reading up on what's involved ... my hat is off to anyone building quality real log homes . Stay safe |
|
Quoted:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/sparkycg/DSCN0928.jpg This is e-Log. 1/4" wood veneer on insulating styrofoam applied to T&G plywood. www.e-logsiding.com That goes on an insulated/TyVek'd stick frame house. Finished inside conventionally. Northern Michigan seemed to call for the most insulation we could get. We trusted the builder to do a good job, (still do) and the manufacturer of the product to stand behind it, (they do). After reading up on what's involved ... my hat is off to anyone building quality real log homes . Stay safe Beautiful looking house. |
|
I looked at log a long while ago, along with other types of construction and came to the conclusion that overall you cannot really beat a conventional structure for upfront cost and resale, and even for ongoing costs of utilities and maintenance.
In many respects, the problem with an unusual house is that it is unusual. They can be really hard to resell without taking a bath. The people hawking them say otherwise but every real estate agent I ever talked to says they can be a problem to get rid of. The same problem applies to earth sheltered homes and anything else that is not common. The thing is that people tend to move a lot. The average length of time in a residence in the US is now < 5 years, IIRC. The chances of just breaking even on the sale of any home in 5 years in most of the US these days approaches nil, and if you put a home that has very low appeal to most of the home buying public into the mix, it has to be even worse. Of course breaking even on the sales price is not always that big of a deal compared to renting. I don't know if it has changed a lot since I was looking but back then even the sellers of log cabins warned me there was a lot more work involved in the upkeep of a log cabin than more traditional structures. Things like having to reseal the logs every couple of years, and redoing the chinking as the logs shrink. I never knew the logs even had any kind of coating on them, much less that it had to be redone all the time. If you really want that look and feel, there is nothing wrong with getting what you want, but go into it with your eyes open. I suggest talking to a couple RE agents about the resale market for log homes in your area. And drive around and see if you can find a couple log homes and knock on the door and ask questions. Do NOT trust any references given you by the seller of a log home. There is no way they will give you anyone's name that will say anything negative. |
|
Quoted: I looked at log a long while ago, along with other types of construction and came to the conclusion that overall you cannot really beat a conventional structure for upfront cost and resale, and even for ongoing costs of utilities and maintenance. In many respects, the problem with an unusual house is that it is unusual. They can be really hard to resell without taking a bath. The people hawking them say otherwise but every real estate agent I ever talked to says they can be a problem to get rid of. The same problem applies to earth sheltered homes and anything else that is not common. The thing is that people tend to move a lot. The average length of time in a residence in the US is now < 5 years, IIRC. The chances of just breaking even on the sale of any home in 5 years in most of the US these days approaches nil, and if you put a home that has very low appeal to most of the home buying public into the mix, it has to be even worse. Of course breaking even on the sales price is not always that big of a deal compared to renting. I don't know if it has changed a lot since I was looking but back then even the sellers of log cabins warned me there was a lot more work involved in the upkeep of a log cabin than more traditional structures. Things like having to reseal the logs every couple of years, and redoing the chinking as the logs shrink. I never knew the logs even had any kind of coating on them, much less that it had to be redone all the time. If you really want that look and feel, there is nothing wrong with getting what you want, but go into it with your eyes open. I suggest talking to a couple RE agents about the resale market for log homes in your area. And drive around and see if you can find a couple log homes and knock on the door and ask questions. Do NOT trust any references given you by the seller of a log home. There is no way they will give you anyone's name that will say anything negative. All true. But I wanted one anyway. I never looked at my place as any kind of investment. Just a place to go and relax. Then one weekend I saw what I thought was a cell tower going up.  Well it was actually a gas well. I never expected this windfall. Plans now are for an expansion to cabin. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/sparkycg/DSCN0928.jpg This is e-Log. 1/4" wood veneer on insulating styrofoam applied to T&G plywood. www.e-logsiding.com That goes on an insulated/TyVek'd stick frame house. Finished inside conventionally. Northern Michigan seemed to call for the most insulation we could get. We trusted the builder to do a good job, (still do) and the manufacturer of the product to stand behind it, (they do). After reading up on what's involved ... my hat is off to anyone building quality real log homes . Stay safe Beautiful looking house. Thanks. Pretty good original design. The architect had previously built at least two others of the same basic plan. We deleted a "3-season room" that stuck off to the side, added to the garage and the rear deck, and moved the whole garage back a bit to open up the front porch. It's been a lot of fun and comfy so far. When it gets close to 100degF in SoFla ... guess where we'd rather be. 
Stay safe |
|
Back when I was a kid, I built a cabin in Montana. I used lodgepole pine which I cut and skidded with horses. There used to be a once in a lifetime thing where you could harvest enough logs off f Forrest Service land to build a house. If I remember correctly it was like a $25.00 stumpage fee. The logs were skinned with a draw knife, then I used an 'alaska sawmill' to flat the logs on 2 sides. I built the entire place by myself using a tripod with a block and tackle to hoist the logs. To keep the bugs out of the logs, I got a hudson sprayer and shot the outside with Chevron Shake & Shingle oil. Never had any insect issues. It was utilitarian as it gets, but I lived in it for several years. All in all I had about $650.00 into the entire project. I had a loft that I slept in and a waterwheel hooked to a generator which gave me 12 volt power in the cabin. Hell, I even had a two-hole shitjack.....with stereo running from the cabin.  I left for a summer job in Idaho and a forrest fire burned it down.....I was majorly bummed. I'll try and find a couple of pictures of it to post. ETA: I built log homes for a living for a few years after that, so if I can help anybody that's planning on building...I'll tell ya what I know. |
|
Quoted: Back when I was a kid, I built a cabin in Montana. I used lodgepole pine which I cut and skidded with horses. There used to be a once in a lifetime thing where you could harvest enough logs off f Forrest Service land to build a house. If I remember correctly it was like a $25.00 stumpage fee. The logs were skinned with a draw knife, then I used an 'alaska sawmill' to flat the logs on 2 sides. I built the entire place by myself using a tripod with a block and tackle to hoist the logs. To keep the bugs out of the logs, I got a hudson sprayer and shot the outside with Chevron Shake & Shingle oil. Never had any insect issues. It was utilitarian as it gets, but I lived in it for several years. All in all I had about $650.00 into the entire project. I had a loft that I slept in and a waterwheel hooked to a generator which gave me 12 volt power in the cabin. Hell, I even had a two-hole shitjack.....with stereo running from the cabin. I left for a summer job in Idaho and a forrest fire burned it down.....I was majorly bummed. I'll try and find a couple of pictures of it to post. ETA: I built log homes for a living for a few years after that, so if I can help anybody that's planning on building...I'll tell ya what I know. i would absolutely love to see pics of the cabin. |