Quote from the linked article: "Butane cannister stoves I have no use for. They don't work in extremely cold weather, the cannisters are expensive and bulky, and you still have to pack the cannisters out and dispose of them when they are empty. On the other hand, they are convenient and both the stoves and their cannisters store well without degradation over time, so they may meet some people's needs perfectly." The Jetboil is one of those. In fact, it's nothing but a glorified hot-pot. They're convenient, as long as all you need is a means to boil water under somewhat controlled situations. However, I wrote the article to address the need for a "SHTF" stove that is always ready when you need heat, and will work under all conditions. A stove that can be used not only to boil water, but also to fry fish, heat the oil pan of your truck so it will start in extremely cold weather, or melt lead for bullet casting; all while not needing a steady supply of fuel cannisters. A stove that will still be working 40 years from now. The 8R works as long as you can come up with gasoline. With a larger jet, it burns kerosene. It can probably be made to run on vegetable oil, if necessary. |
I guess my question is what do you consider extremely cold weather? I've used mine in -20 degrees. Worked perfectly. Expensive? No. Less than $100. Do you have to pack them out when they run out? Yes. I believe if you pack it in, you pack it out. No matter what. The JetBoil does a lot more than you give it credit for. I would do some more research. You can't quote yourself to make your argument stronger. It just doesn't make any sense. As an avid backpacker, I have had the opportunity to use just about every stove on the market. Whether it was mine or a friends. The JetBoil is a great product and I do not agree with your synopsis. Also, "CANNISTER" which is the way you have it written in your article is spelled CANISTER. Might want to go take a look at that. |
My reply and quote was not to support an argument, but to demonstrate that you were taking the article out of context; that context being, as stated in the title, "Survival Gear", not "Ultralight Hiking Gear". In fact, my quote from the article listed some reasons why some people would find canister (you're right, thanks) stoves to be ideal for the purpose of backpacking. However, in the article I was not describing what I think is the best stove for the typical backpacker to use exclusively for backpacking. Within the context of the article and this thread pointing to it, a butane canister stove would be a very poor choice. Your description of why you think it is a wonderful choice FOR BACKPACKING tells me you did not comprehend the article. Notice, for example, that my problem with liquid-fuel stoves that have a detached fuel bottle did not manifest itself until the stove had been used for a substantial length of time, thrice daily for all my cooking for several months, in fact. Also, very early in the article I made the statement that if I were embarking on a long-distance backpacking trip, I probably would choose one of the ultra-light stoves. I then went into detail explaining exactly what purpose the stove I was writing about would have to meet. You're right about one thing, though: I have never used a canister stove in very cold weather. During my avid backpacking days of the late 1970s, throughout the '80s and into the '90s, all the backpacking books and magazines I read described butane stoves as the mark of a neophyte; something that created waste and, though they could be made to work in cold weather if you kept them warm (in much the same way that a Bic lighter works at -60F if you carry it against your skin), not as reliable as a liquid-fuel stove. I listened, and bought liquid-fuel stoves; therefore I've never had occasion to test their advice. |
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Butane canisters are obsolete. Most canisters now come in a 70/30 butane/propane mix that supposedly resolves the cold weather issues. Liquid fuel stoves are a great amusement however. On the Allagash a couple years ago I watched my friend's inexperienced father attempt to light his MSR Whisperlite stove. Some fuel leaked out and the man managed to set the picnic table on fire. He used my boring canister stove for the rest of the trip.  Re waste, carry out the empty canister and punch a hole in it with the caliber of your choice. Then toss the canister into the metal recycling bin. But in a pinch, yeah, it's easy to make a liquid stove out of a tin can. I created a burner for used veggy oil in my woodstove this winter, it threw off a lot of heat but left a lot of black greasy gunk. Would use it if needed tho. |
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That's interesting. What design did you use for the vegoil burner? I would like to experiment with a few designs to achieve a truly efficient, portable vegoil burner. I know it can be done with forced air, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a rocket stove, using thermodynamics to feed the air to it. I've done it in a woodstove with a long stack, but a campstove is a challenge... |
My experimentation really wasn't very sophisticated, nor did it result in anything very efficient. I started with 1917 Glenwood Model C wood cook stove in the kitchen, and a layer of used veggy oil crud from the bottom of a barrel I used to collect WVO for my biodiesel projects. The burner apparatus was just a large coffee can with holes drilled along the top rim for air flow. Add some fiberglass insulation for a wick, fill can with WVO, place towards rear of stove. Light small wood fire in front of the can. As the fire grew and drafted towards the smoke pipe the can lit and threw off a lot of heat and flame. The old iron wood stove creaked from the heat, and it was the first time my wife bitched the kitchen was too hot in January. The can would stay lit for almost an hour. I also rigged up some iron pipe to meter in WVO from one of the other liftable surface lids, but I stopped the project at the behest of the wife when the black greasy residue from the WVO burner flaked off and got on the floor, clothes, and tracked around by the pets, etc. That part didn't go over very well. I think you need to atomize the WVO to really get it to burn completely. Overall it was a success for cheap heat and SHTF purposes, but a big FAIL in the eyes of the wife. 
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It may be kind of like a rocket stove, where you have to feed in just a little fuel at a time, and too much fuel results in an inefficient burn. A design I've seen for burning old motor oil has a "thermal pile" for lack of a better term of iron scrap in the bottom of the stove, with an oil dripper controlled by a valve, dripping directly onto the pile. You have to start it with kindling to get the pile up to operating temperature, then start slowly opening the oil valve. Eventually the pile is glowing red hot, and the oil burns efficiently. I've tried it, and it seemed to work pretty well. An improvement I have read about but have not tried, adds another line and valve for water. The oil and water are dripped onto a trough leading to the thermal pile. My understanding of it is that you get it burning as efficiently as possible with the oil alone, then start adding a little bit of water. I don't know how this works- perhaps a chemical reaction which releases the oxygen and hydrogen from the water?- but it is supposed to make a big difference in burn efficiency. I saw this reference in the 1970s, but haven't seen anything else about it. |
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Interesting article, anyplace these can be had new or is it a surplus item(tried googling but came up dry with reviews only) I have been using a MSR Whisperlite Int for years for everything from hiking to motorcycle camping(offroad) to melting lead for boolit casting. I now live in the mountains and a singly contained unit that can be stored dry and then filled from my tanks in the event of an emergenct trips my fancy |
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It appears that the 8R Hunter is not currently being produced, although all parts are available. You can still get a 123R Svea which is mechanically the same stove, but without the folding case; or a 111C Hiker which has the folding case, but is larger, more complicated, multifuel and has a built-in pump. I would recommend either buying an 8R on Ebay (there are usually a few for sale there), or buying the Svea. In fact, I may buy a Svea myself, so I can keep it in my pack and keep my 8R in my truck. |
Yes he was. Didn't he do the first dinner pic ever? A plate of food with a revolver over it? By the way, the pic above of the green Optimus cooking grits n spam was temporarily banned on Classic Camp Stoves. One of the mods there was offended by the Sig 220 and removed the photo. He later had to put it back .
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There are many stoves that are lighter. The Jetboil's efficiency won't make up for it's heavier weight on a short trip--it will take several days. www.thru-hiker.com has published several analyses which show that an isobutane canister stove or "pop can" alcohol stove is most weight efficient for short trips (1-3 days). I take a Primus Micron and one small canister on most of my weekend trips. My favorite liquid fuel/winter stove is the Trangia Nova--an Optimus Nova designed to fit inside a Trangia Storm Cooker. It isn't light, but it's hot, wind resistant, efficient and stable as hell. |
good info in that link.. +1 I have in my arsenal the optimus crux, msr pocket rocket, msr windpro, and msr xgk ex... except for extreme weather I pretty much use my pocket rocket, for my week long backpacking trips. For 6-8 days I can get by with a single 8oz of fuel canister... and that is boiling for breakfast and dinner with even a fish fry in there. |
I have had my Dragonfly for 10 years now, I think. I have never done any maintenance or cleaned it and it still fires up and cooks beautifully. I am very impressed with this stove. |
I have a Dragonfly, too. Great stove! I had an early one that had a weld on the bottom of the burner where it pivots in the housing. Eventually (YEARS after I bought it), the weld broke. I sent it in to MSR for repair, and they sent me a brand new one  . The Dragonfly and the Optimus Nova both have an adjustment valve between the vapor generator and the jet--I think that's what makes them more adjustable (i.e. able to simmer) than other similar stoves.
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Anybody know the dimensions of the Coleman single burner dual fuel stoves? like this one? |
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I have probably a couple dozen small stoves of one sort or another. I do have the Optimus Hiker which is the new version of the OP featured stove and its definitely one extremely fantastic stove. It will burn about any liquid fuel you can name with about the power of a Coleman fuel stove and no pumping. Despite its small size, it will hold really large pots even a large enamel chili pot with no problems. Flame adjustment from roar to a simmer, its fantastic for perking coffee or about any cooking task. I personally think its one of the most versatile and well built small stoves on the market. There's even a US MIL version of this stove which can be bought surplus. It was once very popular with the US military. That being said, it has a major problem. Though fantastic as a home backup and legendary as the stove that conquered Mt. Everest, its way too heavy as an individual pack stove. How did it conquer Mt. Everest and considered the ideal stove for that application? Its pretty simple, they weren't individually packing but group packing, sharing the load so to say. Anyway, this stove is very high on my recommendation list for survival planning. It burns alcohol, kerosene, white gas, Coleman fuel, liquid paraffins, unleaded gas, and many more. Tj |
 The Optimus 111T Hiker (multi-fuel silent burner) was a basecamp stove for the early mountain climbers and was probably carried by coolies. It is still used for disaster relief work by world wide relief agencies. It is my favorite tent stove. This is the red one in my photo. The Svea 123 Climber was the individual pack stove favored by the early mountain climbers. It is quite portable. Colin Fletcher used one on his solo hike through the Grand Canyon. This is the cylindrical brass one in my photo. The Optimus 8R Hunter makes a great day hike stove and has been used by Boy Scouts for years. Very simple operation and totally reliable. Not as light as the Svea 123 but not too heavy for day hikes and hunting trips. The blue one in my photo. |
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Meh, I use trioxane and a canteen cup w/ my canteen cup holder (it fits around my canteen cup, can't seem to find them anymore). I bought like over 1k triox bars a while ago for $50 or so, so I'll use that till they run out  light, costs almost nothing, and boils a quart of water in about 8 mins. Good enough for the price Speed |
| hey HeadLess_T_ Gunner, i have both of the first two stoves you have, in East German and Soviet copys ....the copy of your brass one is called a "Jewel" in east Germany and i have the Soviet version also...also got a copy of the smaller box type one...a copy but still works great at any time or place..it also sounds like a German WW2 V-2 rocket when on full blast....vince g. 11b inf.. |
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I'm digging my Jetboil so far. Just brought it in to show one of my co-workers after talking about his backcountry Alaska trip. I've only used it to boil, though. I have the pot support but I haven't tried it out yet. Maybe I'll whip up some pancakes this weekend. One thing I really like is that everything (except the coffee press  ) fits inside the cup. Fuel, stove, supports. It's all in there.
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| This is what I have, and I like it alot. also the local wally world has them on sale for $19.95. I am thinking about picking a 2nd up.Coleman stove |
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I just got the Jetboil. +1 There is no better when you consider weight and fuel efficiency. Quote from the linked article: "Butane cannister stoves I have no use for. They don't work in extremely cold weather, the cannisters are expensive and bulky, and you still have to pack the cannisters out and dispose of them when they are empty. On the other hand, they are convenient and both the stoves and their cannisters store well without degradation over time, so they may meet some people's needs perfectly." The Jetboil is one of those. In fact, it's nothing but a glorified hot-pot. They're convenient, as long as all you need is a means to boil water under somewhat controlled situations. However, I wrote the article to address the need for a "SHTF" stove that is always ready when you need heat, and will work under all conditions. A stove that can be used not only to boil water, but also to fry fish, heat the oil pan of your truck so it will start in extremely cold weather, or melt lead for bullet casting; all while not needing a steady supply of fuel cannisters. A stove that will still be working 40 years from now. The 8R works as long as you can come up with gasoline. With a larger jet, it burns kerosene. It can probably be made to run on vegetable oil, if necessary. I guess my question is what do you consider extremely cold weather? I've used mine in -20 degrees. Worked perfectly. Expensive? No. Less than $100. Do you have to pack them out when they run out? Yes. I believe if you pack it in, you pack it out. No matter what. The JetBoil does a lot more than you give it credit for. I would do some more research. You can't quote yourself to make your argument stronger. It just doesn't make any sense. As an avid backpacker, I have had the opportunity to use just about every stove on the market. Whether it was mine or a friends. The JetBoil is a great product and I do not agree with your synopsis. Also, "CANNISTER" which is the way you have it written in your article is spelled CANISTER. Might want to go take a look at that. Well I guess you set him straight... 
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| my vote is for the svea 123. it has been in constant use since the 1800's. it runs on white gas, coleman fuel, naptha, or gasoline. it is self presurizing, and light enough to pack (unless you are a gram weenie). it turns enough heat to melt snow on the top of everest (and has done it many times). it is so reliable most owners don't even know if there is a rebuild kit because they have never had the need for one. simply put it works. |
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my vote is for the svea 123. it has been in constant use since the 1800's. Dude, how freakin' old are you? 
Just bought a Svea off a guy today. Hope it shipped today. 
learning the proper way to prime it is key. i recommend using alcohol the first few times until you get the hang of it. i didn't say mine was in constant use since the 1800's. i have only been using mine since 1970. it still works like the first day i had it. |
