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AR Precision Testing (Page 2 of 7)
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Link Posted: 9/20/2018 8:27:24 AM EDT
[#1]
This thread is relevant to my interests....

LaRue Stealth 20" in a Mega Monolithic upper.

I have done some load dev with Hornady 73 ELD and 75 BTHP.  Also some with the 69gr Sierra.  All grouped well but I favor the 73 ELD.

Need to order some more as I am almost out.....

Link Posted: 9/20/2018 9:34:01 AM EDT
[#2]
I have a 20" Krieger with 3500+ rounds and a 18 Criterion with <200 rounds I can send to you if you want those data points.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 9:46:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
I have a 20" Krieger with 3500+ rounds and a 18 Criterion with <200 rounds I can send to you if you want those data points.
View Quote
I’ll work with you on a shipping address.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 9:56:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:

I would volunteer to order some for you and your tests, and have it shipped to where you'd like .

( IM me if you are interested )
View Quote
Thank you! Assistance is appreciated.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 10:43:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#5]
Link Posted: 9/24/2018 1:24:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Guess we’ll call this a teaser. Wasn’t real thrilled with how I did on the last outing, so I brought the creedmoor and 5 rds for this last trip. Maybe it’s not cherry picking if you only fired five rounds for the day?



Let the girlfriend run an AR (Ultramatch) with 3 factory loads as well. The consensus is that these barrels shoot!


Gratuitous pic of her during testing.
Link Posted: 9/24/2018 5:26:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

I may give those a try. I mainly shoot longer distance, but those may be good for intermediate paper fun. I don’t necessarily believe in bullets going to sleep since I don’t understand how gyroscopic stability increases once a bullet leaves the muzzle, but I may need to read up more on the subject. I’ve had great results with 73 eld-m’s and 75hpbt from a few rifles. The 73 eld-m is my go to bullet for my girlfriends rifle.
View Quote
I think I probably stated that unartfully.   It's not that some bullets don't stabilize during the first 100 or 200 yards, but rather that target bullets for shorter distances are designed differently.  I recall reading in Berger's loading manual that their short to medium range bullets for paper punching tend to be flat based and are lighter in weight.   Berger contends that due to differences in manufacturing equipment and technique, those flat based target bullets are inherently more accurate, and that for the same reasons their boat-tailed bullets are not quite as accurate.

On the other hand, Berger's longer range bullets, being of boat-tail design and having far better BC, are much less affected by wind, which becomes a factor at longer ranges.

By that reasoning, flat based, lighter, lower BC bullets can be made closer to their standard of perfection than the longer, heavier high BC bullets,  but lose ground in practical accuracy at longer distances due  to the effect of wind.

I honestly don't know.  I do know that my rifle loves the flat based 52 Bergers when shooting for groups at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 3:44:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 5:52:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556] [#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Guess we’ll call this a teaser. Wasn’t real thrilled with how I did on the last outing, so I brought the creedmoor and 5 rds for this last trip. Maybe it’s not cherry picking if you only fired five rounds for the day?

https://i.imgur.com/uGkjTFp.jpg

Let the girlfriend run an AR (Ultramatch) with 3 factory loads as well. The consensus is that these barrels shoot!
https://i.imgur.com/n1hWWJU.jpg

Gratuitous pic of her during testing.
https://i.imgur.com/UksStOv.jpg
View Quote
Beautiful!  The rifle's not too shabby, either!
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 6:11:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MS556:

Beautiful!  The rifle's not too shabby, either!
View Quote
Thanks for the compliment. She continues to impress me daily, not just in shooting, but for only having < 12 range trips, I think she’s doing pretty good.

Battery died before the 5th shot... (shots begin 31 seconds in, right target, top left)
Link Posted: 9/25/2018 6:19:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Special thanks to Bfoosh06 and Lennyo3034 for helping to give this project additional data points. Bfoosh06 has gratiously offered to assist with a variety of factory ammo and Lennyo3034 has offered up barrel(s) to test.

Thank you both for your generosity.
Link Posted: 9/27/2018 11:02:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 9/27/2018 9:20:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#13]
First shipment received! Thanks again

I’ve been really tied up with work lately so I haven’t been able to get my LaRue Stealth shipped back, but I’ll try to get it out tomorrow and resume testing when it returns and I finish up match prep for October. Taking my better half to two events in Oct., so I’ve got lots of reloading to get taken care of.

I hope to have the BCA modified and the Rainier Match ready as well for the next round of testing. I’ll be running the Rainier Match and BA 6.5 creedmoor in an upcoming MOA event, so 5 x 5 results will be posted (no pressure...).

Any others wanting to see what the DD barrel will do? Never really tested it with a magnified optic.



More goodness arrived!

Link Posted: 10/1/2018 10:51:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 10/5/2018 10:50:10 AM EDT
[#15]
A few more items arrived.

The 75 eld’s are for my GF’s bolt gun that I hope to get slapped together this weekend, but I may try them single loaded in a few of the 223 AR’s till the 224Valkyrie begins to breath fire!



The Krieger has landed
Link Posted: 10/5/2018 7:45:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lennyo3034] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
A few more items arrived.

The 75 eld’s are for my GF’s bolt gun that I hope to get slapped together this weekend, but I may try them single loaded in a few of the 223 AR’s till the 224Valkyrie begins to breath fire!

https://i.imgur.com/9RgpRgH.jpg

The Krieger has landed
https://i.imgur.com/jgFr0Fs.jpg
View Quote
That Krieger has won many a gas gun match. More than all the rest of my barrels combined. Its load development groups are still 5th or 6th on the MOA challenge.

Unfortunately, its quite shot out now. It's still decently accurate at 100 yards but doesn't hold that accuracy at distance. Steel pins getting shot down the bore didn't help things either.
Link Posted: 10/14/2018 6:35:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Not my best outing, maybe it was the 4hrs of sleep, but this was the results from yesterday. Each 25rd group was shot in about 7 minutes. For the ADI, the high round was the first from the mag. The top left group was from 2 different lots of ammo. The point of impact was adjusted from the bullseye after the first group of ADI, and down for the last 2 groups of IMI to ensure they stayed on paper.


Link Posted: 10/18/2018 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 12:55:07 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 5:21:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RFutch:
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle.
View Quote
It did pretty well (MOA) out of my WOA MK12 Mod 1 barrel; my other WOA (varmint) rifle had it around 1.25, and my Mod H was a little under 2", but that was almost all vertical so very well could have just been me being a twat.  

It's not terrible, but I also probably wouldn't classify it as true "match" grade ammo.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 7:29:55 PM EDT
[#21]
I did a 5x5 average and it was .84 moa. If I throw out one round that I called it would be .77 moa. Green mountain 20” fluted Barrel.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 9:35:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RFutch:
I'm interested in seeing the results of the Magtech 77s. I've heard others say it doesn't shoot well but it does great in my rifle.
View Quote
I’ll run it the next time I’m out. Possibly this weekend, but more likely next weekend.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 7:21:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Given the IMI is 5.56 pressure... those results are pretty danged good for "Mil-Spec" bulk'ish ammo.
View Quote
Yeah. There was a local tactical match earlier today and my girlfriend wanted to try out a PRS style match, so we went. I figured I’d try the IMI at distance, just to see what it could do. It was raining part of the match, but I didn’t get any blown primers. I’d only fired 25rds of it before today, but I read that I should be able to get around 2790fps from an 18”. Hit high at the first 400yd stage. Was also hitting a bit high at the first 500yd target. Either my zero was a few tenths off, or I was getting closer to 2825fps from the Rainier Ultramatch.

Haven’t shot a tactical style event in almost 2yrs and managed to finish in 2nd place. I’d like to think that I would have done better with handloads, but I doubt the IMI ammo was holding me back much.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#24]
2790 seems low for an 18” barrel. I was pushing 2900 with a 20” barrel so I’d expect closer to 2850 for an 18”.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 8:53:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
2790 seems low for an 18” barrel. I was pushing 2900 with a 20” barrel so I’d expect closer to 2850 for an 18”.
View Quote
Yea, your speed seems to be faster than most.

The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 9:51:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lennyo3034] [#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

Yea, your speed seems to be faster than most.

The thread on SH that you posted in was what I used to gather velocity guesstimates on.
View Quote
You're right, my speeds are not in line with the rest of the thread, I hadn't paid attention to the other reports until now. The picture states an average of 2882 but that's a bit misleading since one of the rounds dropped to 2836 dropping the average significantly. The velocities of the others are quite high. FWIW, I have popped primers with it, so its definitely too hot for my liking.

That's out of a CLE match chamber, not sure about the impact of that to overall velocity.
Link Posted: 10/20/2018 11:50:39 PM EDT
[#27]
CLE is a shallower leade .223 Rem.

2850fps is damn fast from a 20".

23.8gr H4895 under moly'd 77s gave 2800, I backed down to 23.5gr for approx 2750. Partly for safety, partly to match TSRA Junior spec.

2900 is asking for trouble.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 12:18:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 1:17:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Any new results ? ... Just curious, not trying to be pushy.
View Quote
Unfortunately not. Every day that I’ve had free over the past few weeks it’s either been raining or I’ve had a prior engagement scheduled. I should be getting out to the range this weekend or over the holiday break.
Link Posted: 11/18/2018 10:47:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 11/23/2018 11:23:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#31]
It looks like there’s little chance of rain after lunch tomorrow, so I plan on testing the RA Match, the Krieger (thanks again Lenny) and possibly the 2nd RA Ultramatch. Also have to function check the Nucleus build I just finished tonight for my gf and chrono a few loads for her 223 bolt gun.

RA Match


Krieger
Link Posted: 11/24/2018 12:01:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
It looks like there’s little chance of rain after lunch tomorrow, so I plan on testing the RA Match, the Krieger (thanks again Lenny) and possibly the 2nd RA Ultramatch. Also have to function check the Nucleus build I just finished tonight for my gf and chrono a few loads for her 223 bolt gun.

RA Match
https://i.imgur.com/YeKyayx.jpg

Krieger
https://i.imgur.com/k7NjthO.jpg
View Quote
Looking forward to the results. Thank you both!
Link Posted: 11/25/2018 4:15:16 AM EDT
[#33]
The weather is really trying my patience. Waited for the rain to subside and made it to the field only for the fog to roll in about 5 minutes after I arrived. Decided to run a target down to the 100yrd mark to not let the day be a total waste. Couldn’t really make out the target well and just sent a few downrange to function test and rough zero a build finished the night before. After that group I couldn’t make out anything past about 40yds and decided to call it a day.



The “loaner” Jewel caught me off guard on the first one.


Maybe I’ll get free tomorrow and the weather will hold up.
Link Posted: 11/29/2018 11:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#34]
Weather isn’t looking great for the weekend, but some additional ammo showed up for when conditions improve. Some Hornady 88eld-m 224VALKYRIE ammo is supposed to be here tomorrow.

A fresh Rainier Match SPR barrel also arrived along with some SIG 223 brass to test out. I’ll be running the SIG in our bolt gun as well to get a baseline of how it stacks up against Lapua and in the AR’s against my LC loads. It’s about 5gr lighter than the Lapua and ~1gr lighter than the LC. I doubt that’s all in base weight, so I’ll likely need to add some additional powder to the loads to account for the perceived increase in case capacity. The weights have been pretty consistent from the 12-15 that I weight, with all but one being within .2grs of each other. The one outlier from the SMALL sample size was .6grs from the average (90.8gr).



Link Posted: 11/30/2018 12:05:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#35]
Link Posted: 12/15/2018 1:47:53 PM EDT
[#36]
All signs are pointing towards decent weather tomorrow. Plans are for the Krieger, Rainier Match and the Larue 224VALKYRIE. If I get time on the reloading bench, I may bring the 6.5 grendel and 6.5 creedmoor Ballistic Advantage builds.

Also, I’ve got some FGMM 105 Berger hybrid 6creed ammo to test in the nucleus builds. Not AR’s, but it’ll be interesting to see what they can do in a rifle that can deliver sub half moa groups with the 105’s and H4350 in Lapua brass. If they group, I may grab more to run in the Falkor 6 creed at the end of December.

Note: ADI 69’s that are part of the newer import lots are packaged differently. I’ll do some measurements prior to shooting to see they have the same dimensions, but the performance of the bullets is what ultimately counts.
Link Posted: 12/17/2018 9:09:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Finally got out to the range!

I was able to test the Rainier Match (old barrel) the LaRue 224 Valkyrie but had some gas/magazine issues with the Krieger barreled upper.

Time was somewhat limited since there were several shooters at the range and several benches were occupied. Spent most of the time with my girlfriend letting her try out the 6 creed that I built her over Thanksgiving and the rest letting my daughter shoot the 223 bolt gun.

RA Match- Performed reasonably well with the ADI 69’s (new imports). I need to test this barrel more, because in the past it preferred 75/77’s over the lighter stuff. Also, I didn’t baseline this load in the RA Ultramatch to see if it performs the same as the older lots. I did measure 20 of them and the Base to ogive was within .002” from the old lots. The base to shoulder was the same as well. Note: The center group of ADI’s was fired by my girlfriend.

3 bottom right- LaRue 234V AE 75


Left groups are the 223 bolt gun. Bottom 3 were ADI 69. Tough to chamber with the reamer that was used on this build, so we stopped at 3.


LaRue 224- I don’t know what to say. It’s a fresh build and had zero rounds downrange prior to this outing. Hopefully its just a burr at the gas port or something. I do know that the receiver to barrel was loose compared to my other builds. Although Mark suggested I just paint the barrel extension, I may break it apart and try to shim stock the extension.


Sig brass- The surprise of the day! I thought that I would need to add some extra powder to make up for a perceived increase in case capacity and I think I guessed right. I fired a charge that was .2gr heavier than the load I use with Lapua brass and managed a .16moa group. My girlfriend, not wanting to be outdone, fired the group to the right that was .3gr heavier and had 4 great shots but pulled/canted on rd 3 of 5 which ruined the <.25moa group she was working on. Resisted firing the load that was .1gr over what I typically run and decided to let my daughter continue shooting. Limited data so far, but I’ll be testing this at greater length.
Link Posted: 12/18/2018 4:43:16 PM EDT
[#38]
This is really good stuff, man.  I'm truly inspired to due a precision SPR 5.56 build.

I'm thinking I might spend the dough for a Bartlein barrel as they have an SPR 5.56 profile available and seem to be under represented around here.  Wringing one out might be fun.   I have a Vltor MUR lying around that has been crying about not having a home.
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 10:16:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 12/30/2018 1:56:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#40]
Tested the LaRue 224VALKYRIE again today.

First group of the day with it was the bottom left with AE 75’s. Shots 1-3 were decent, then the POI began to shift down. The next group wasn’t grouping tight so I decided to switch over to the Hornady 88’s. The first group was the bottom left. After the initial group, I adjusted the scope up to keep the rounds on paper.

Anyone else seeing this from other barrels? The dropping down after 4-5 shots? I’d love to get this figured out as I’ve experienced it with 2 barrels during this testing.






Note: top right group, shot with asterisk was a round that had difficulty chambering and required loading twice. The case had a minor dent in the shoulder of the case.

I was feeling defeated so I grabbed my dads AR from his truck (Rainier Ultramatch #2). I wasn’t planning on testing it today and it’s current configuration isn’t ideal for prone shooting. I didn’t swap out the 9-13” bipod that he has mounted on it, and I really should have for the best results. There really wasn’t much rear support when on target, so I know I pulled a shot or two. Despite that, it still was performing better than the 224V, which had a much more stable rear rest.





I tested the Sig brass again with 3 loads and the MagnetoSpeed. It appears to be good stuff! The better groups were the go to load without the magnetospeed attached. Testing of this brass compared to LC for AR’s will begin next month.




Pulling the ATACR from the 224VALKYRIE to put on the Krieger 223. Testing it tomorrow!

Edit: Added scored target images
Link Posted: 12/30/2018 8:41:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Did  the .224V Larue ship with a target? If so, what did it look like and what ammo did they use?
Link Posted: 12/30/2018 9:17:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JLS81] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Additional LaRue Stealth, Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor and.....Bear Creek Arsenal results have been added to Post #3.
View Quote
@SuperJlarge
Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run?
It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team.

24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT
24.5 grain Varget  tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT

Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel
Link Posted: 12/30/2018 11:12:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC_JA:
Did  the .224V Larue ship with a target? If so, what did it look like and what ammo did they use?
View Quote
It was just the barrel and bolt, so no test target.

I’ll pull the 224VALKYRIE barrel in the next few days and install the Rainier Match barrel that was purchased during the Black Friday sale in the same build (upper receiver, gas block, rail) to see how it performs. I want to confirm there’s no issue with the other components before attempting to send the Valkyrie back to the manufacturer for inspection.
Link Posted: 12/30/2018 8:40:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#44]
@Lennyo3034 I’d hate to see what this barrel did before it had a high round count! I know it’s factory ammo, but this barrel makes you feel like it’s all you if they don’t go in the same hole.

Got a late start on range time today so I was pretty rushed, but man, this barrel shoots. I’ll definitely be getting back out with more time and a decent rear bag to see what this thing can do. I fired 2 sighter a while adjusting the scope that I pulled off of the 224VALKYRIE. I was impressed with what it did with the Hornady steel match (first groups), but was blown away with how it shot the Magtech. After the first one from the mag, the next 4 from both groups was really nice. By the time I got to the ADI the barrel was warm and I didn’t have enough daylight to give it another break before strings, so I was dealing with some mirage (warm barrel, 50F ambient temp). Shot 4 on the second group (Right) went low, so I fired a 6th round for that group. I didn’t think I pulled it, but shot 6 went into the previous group. I’ll test that again to see if it improves.





Link Posted: 12/30/2018 10:16:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Molon did a bunch of stuff like this before he stopped posting. It bet it would be worth wild to check out his work. Bet there is a lot of useful information that would help you out on this quest.  I know he pissed of a few company's cause their barrels ended up not shooting as good as the claimed.

Scott
Link Posted: 12/31/2018 11:28:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Nice! If you’re going to keep that barrel in the upper for a bit longer, I can try sending ammo again. It liked my handloads more than anything else.

It was shooting it decently when I pulled the barrel. Main issue was velocity loss made me struggle at 800 compared to the 6/6.5 CMs I was competing against. I tried bumping the powder charge to regain some velocity, but quickly ran into pressure signs.

My load of 77 TMKs dropped from 2780 to 2690, not ideal at distance with any wind.
Link Posted: 12/31/2018 11:45:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Btw if you bore scope that barrel, you will find dings all throughout the bore. My dumb ass accidentally shot steel pins from wet tumbling media down it. They were getting stuck in cases without me realizing.

I had it borescoped while at PVA and Josh was very surprised it was shooting as well as it was.
Link Posted: 1/1/2019 3:59:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 1/2/2019 12:42:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JLS81:

@SuperJlarge
Can give the Criterion barrel below a test run?
It is barrel being used by USMC Combat Shooting Team and US Army Marksmanship Unit Action Shooting Team.

24.0 grain Varget tipped with 77 grain Sierra Match King HPBT
24.5 grain Varget  tipped with 69 grain SMK HPBT

Criterion Hybrid Contour Barrel
View Quote
I’ll see if any of my shooting buddies or forum members have one that I can use. I’ve just built 2 custom 6creeds and “may” have to purchase another 224VALKYRIE barrel, so it may be awhile before I would be willing to purchase another barrel for testing. I’ve still got several barrels left to go, but the weather hasn’t cooperated lately.
Link Posted: 1/2/2019 12:55:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO.

And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA .
View Quote
Yes indeed! I can’t wait to see what the Steel match does in some of the other barrels. Outside of the first round, the Magtech was approaching the .3’s! That’s insanely good for factory ammo. Bfoosh06, you’ve selected some good options to try. We may have to rename you the “ammo whisperer”.

So far the IMI and Magtech have done well, and better in some barrels compared to others. I’m keeping track of the COAL and BTO measurements of the ammo tested so that forum members can try and replicate the loads or have a general starting point for seating depth.

Thanks once again for your generous contribution of ammo to assist in this testing. My admiration for your generosity can’t be overstated.
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AR Precision Testing (Page 2 of 7)
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