WW3 is imminent, where to begin prepping? (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By DaGoose: I would drop the beans and go with Lentils instead (no soaking required, so less water used). I've used Azure Standard to buy them at fairly cheap prices. https://www.azurestandard.com/shop/category/food/beans-peas/lentils/28415 This. I have posted pics and said dozens of times over the last 20+ years about issues with pintos over the long term- becoming hard as rocks. Yeah yeah pressure cook, baking soda, tried all that. |
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Listening to my parents and grandparents talking about scarcity during WWII I think I'd make damn sure I had automotive belts, hoses and tires ...maybe spark plugs and wires... air and oil filters... oil. Shoes/boots. Tires. Commodities will be being gobbled up fast. Rubber, copper... steel and aluminum. |
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I would start by giving them a copy of "One Second After" by William R Forstchen, just to get them in the right frame of mind. It is fiction but the challenges faced are plausible for any SHTF scenario. It is also the book that has started many folks on their prepping journey. For family 1, help them find a way to maintain a supply of potable water, some recipes for dog, and a book of prayers for restoring order in the world. For family 2, they also will need a sustainable supply of potable water but in a way that does not require electricity. Their initial problem will be keeping the freezer cold and unless they acquire a large solar system, that is where the electricity ration needs to be allocated. They will need a way to dispose of human waste without contaminating the water supply. Stored food only lasts for so long, whether limited by amount stored or age. A sustainable source of food will, in short order, be necessary for survival. At least buy extra garden seeds every spring and start to compost. Supplies for maple sugaring, including a brace and bits to drill holes for the spiles (taps.) You do not need sugar maples for this. Since they are on a budget, saved glass jars can be reused for canning. An air gun will take small game, is relatively quiet, and pellets are much cheaper and take far less space than even .22. Trade items, if they are lucky enough to end up in an environment that allows it. Booze and coffee might be the most valuable. I continue to debate about ammo. What else is irreplaceable? Whether for trade or self, shoes/boots and socks. You can't have too many socks. |
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Originally Posted By Shadyman: Number one prep…….get the hell out of cities and towns and large population areas and down wind of nuclear weapon targets. 100 miles minimum walking distance from those areas. While maybe true, what's the feasibility of the majority of people able to do this? Also, preps should be put in place by likelihood of something happening. Even if a global conflict breaks out, nuclear weapons being used is still towards the bottom of the list of likelihood (despite the likelihood increasing dramatically) |
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You did not mention the average winter temperature of your families locations. A source of heat safe may be needed for their shelter. A source of drinkable water will be needed. A source of food and the means to cook it will be needed. I say the cooking part, because it is far more cost effective within your budgetary limitations to simply have some basic easy to prepare food. Some cans of soup, some rice & some lentils to stretch & thicken the soup. A grill with a few extra 20 lb tanks can be used to cook on, or a wood campfire if needed. Freeze fried is great, but not the most cost effective way to set back calories. About the water, how to get it, how to purify it. If you have a well, you need enough power to run the well pump (they can take quite a bit), and you need to be sure your generator can supply the needed voltage and amperage surge to start and run it. If you don't have a well, get some cases of water and rotate them from time to time, or get some containers and keep filled with chlorine treated water. Use untreated water for flushing commodes - assuming you have a septic system. If you have a community sewer system, perhaps you need a 5 gallon bucket with a toilet seat on it and some bags to line it with. If you don't have that, have a shovel to dig holes outside to bury your waste (not near or uphill of your well - if that is your water source). If you have to transport water, how far do you have to go? Are you planning on carrying it in 5 gallon buckets? You can get nice ones and pour style lids, they are easy to carry without spilling, and they do not have to be full if the people carrying them are elderly or children. If this is your only water source, you will need to clean and purify the water. A paper filter system, and a gallon of household bleach will make it drinkable. I guess it is safe to assume personal protection is covered. $ 2000 is plenty to get off to a good start, but your particular situation will dictate your needs. You are not living in luxury, but neither are you dying. I am not including refrigeration, or air conditioning. They can be done without, just as they were for most of human history. So, now, how to prepare to help your neighbors - you know, the ones that may resent the fact that your house is not freezing, your water is safe to drink, and your eating while they are hungry. |
It's true no matter who you are, the worst thing you can do for someone is give them something for nothing. - 3rdpig
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
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The above posters have coved the important points. the war time line will be have a Bering as well if it is a drawn out conflict people-will have time to adapt and improvise if it is a Dr Strangelove event everyone will be a survivalist . Where they want to be or not oh one more point when Japans oil supply was curtailed that lead their aggression |
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: China imports about 75% of their oil. A huge chunk of their oil comes through the Straits of Malacca. A few US Navy ships and that flow stops. Some oil comes from Venezuela. Well that flow can now be easily stopped if war breaks out. China gets somewhere around 20% of their oil via pipeline from Russia. So, war breaks out with China we blockade the Straits of Malacca and stop Venezuela oil. A short time later China folds. Can China cause a lot of problems? Sure. If they do, we blockade them and China as we know it ceases to exist a short time later. China's surface navy isn't nuclear. So, they are totally dependent on oil to run the majority of their navy. China has very little oil of their own to extract so they are extremely dependent on imported oil. China also has very poor growing soil (compared to parts of the farmland in the US or farmland in countries like Ukraine). That makes China dependent on food imports. Food and oil is China's greatest weakness. Lack of people may become their next one as their population ages and dies off. Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Originally Posted By Brawndo: I disagree. . China and the USA will be the main theatres for the next war. Probably one in Europe as we will be too occupied to help. India and Pakistan will try to annihilate each other too. The USA would absolutely be crippled by massive power generation and internet attack. China's navy may be lacking, but their cargo and tanker game is not. When you add in that they don't care if their troops make it back, it makes an invasion far more feasible. Ports and coastal cities are soft targets. Who knows, China's sleeper cells may already be here waiting for the signal to attack our grid. As I type this Verizon Wireless is experiencing nationwide outages. Hmmm. China imports about 75% of their oil. A huge chunk of their oil comes through the Straits of Malacca. A few US Navy ships and that flow stops. Some oil comes from Venezuela. Well that flow can now be easily stopped if war breaks out. China gets somewhere around 20% of their oil via pipeline from Russia. So, war breaks out with China we blockade the Straits of Malacca and stop Venezuela oil. A short time later China folds. Can China cause a lot of problems? Sure. If they do, we blockade them and China as we know it ceases to exist a short time later. China's surface navy isn't nuclear. So, they are totally dependent on oil to run the majority of their navy. China has very little oil of their own to extract so they are extremely dependent on imported oil. China also has very poor growing soil (compared to parts of the farmland in the US or farmland in countries like Ukraine). That makes China dependent on food imports. Food and oil is China's greatest weakness. Lack of people may become their next one as their population ages and dies off. |
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Originally Posted By Brawndo: lol you didn't grow up watching the History channel, did you? No idea what point, if any, you are trying to make here. I do understand a little about geography. I also know a little about geopolitics. Feel free to explain the point you are trying to make. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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If already able to go camping for a weekend in the local climate, I'd focus on water, food, power, and sanitation. For water, depending on local sources, plan to store a few days to a few weeks of use. That might look like containers, filters, or making sure the well is maintained. For food, a deep pantry of food you already eat is a good start. Having a way to produce/collect food is good (victory garden). How will you store it? How will you prepare it? Power is really useful for cooking, preserving food, extending working hours, security, and more. If your climate is sunny, solar panels and a "solar generator" may be very useful. Sanitation--what will you do with waste (human, food, projects, etc). Cleaning supplies, bags, etc, etc. With basic supplies on hand, and $2k to improve, I might do something like this: Water containers, filters, pumps: $400 Food (canned/dry): $150 Food (electric burner) $50 Garden supplies: $100 Solar generator/panels (1 kwh+ battery and 1500w+ output): $1000 Mini fridge/freezer: $250 Soap, plastic bags, etc: $50 Solar should be able to keep the small frige/freezer going to keep perishable foods from spoiling and allow limited cooking with the electric burner. That, with your pantry should keep things going for a while. Gardening can be tough, but focus on crops suited for your area, so that you don't have to devote excess energy/resources to them. For most, the garden is a supplement, not self-sufficiency. As funds allow, expand your stock of medicines/medical items, plus up your sanitation supplies, buy some food preservation methods, and increase your power generation capacity. |
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Originally Posted By Shadyman: Number one prep…….get the hell out of cities and towns and large population areas and down wind of nuclear weapon targets. 100 miles minimum walking distance from those areas. And go where? You think the locals will want nomads just hanging around killing the deer they were planning to eat or competing for resources they have no right to? You might not think of it this way, but there is virtually no place in this country where you could just bug out to and not be a problem for someone after SHTF. You’ll run out of food, medicine, water, whatever soon enough, and now you likely can’t go home to the city because squatters have your house now. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: And go where? You think the locals will want nomads just hanging around killing the deer they were planning to eat or competing for resources they have no right to? You might not think of it this way, but there is virtually no place in this country where you could just bug out to and not be a problem for someone after SHTF. You’ll run out of food, medicine, water, whatever soon enough, and now you likely can’t go home to the city because squatters have your house now. Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By Shadyman: Number one prep…….get the hell out of cities and towns and large population areas and down wind of nuclear weapon targets. 100 miles minimum walking distance from those areas. And go where? You think the locals will want nomads just hanging around killing the deer they were planning to eat or competing for resources they have no right to? You might not think of it this way, but there is virtually no place in this country where you could just bug out to and not be a problem for someone after SHTF. You’ll run out of food, medicine, water, whatever soon enough, and now you likely can’t go home to the city because squatters have your house now. I took it to mean move from the cities, not bug out when something happens. That being said it's essentially a nonsensical answer saying anyone who doesn't live 100 miles from a city shouldn't either bother preparing for anything. |
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How easy is it for authorities to maintain natural gas flow through the pipes in various scenarios, grid down, etc. I know when our power goes out, from hurricanes or whatever, the natural gas still maintains pressure to our house and we can use our grill and gas heat stoves, when the boiler is down due to it requiring electricity for the pumps. Has anyone ever experienced natural gas being shut off over wide regions due to power failures? If authorities can prioritize maintaining nat. gas, it would do wonders for heat, generators, etc. |
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Originally Posted By erichard: How easy is it for authorities to maintain natural gas flow through the pipes in various scenarios, grid down, etc. I know when our power goes out, from hurricanes or whatever, the natural gas still maintains pressure to our house and we can use our grill and gas heat stoves, when the boiler is down due to it requiring electricity for the pumps. Has anyone ever experienced natural gas being shut off over wide regions due to power failures? If authorities can prioritize maintaining nat. gas, it would do wonders for heat, generators, etc. Some areas, due to growth, have a limited amount of natural gas supply. Largest city near me pleads with people to reduce consumption during extremely cold snaps. During normal winter temps, they have enough capacity but when temps drop lower than normal, the system doesn’t have enough capacity to provide 100% of the needs. If I had natural gas, I’d have a back up that is not natural gas. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By erichard: How easy is it for authorities to maintain natural gas flow through the pipes in various scenarios, grid down, etc. I know when our power goes out, from hurricanes or whatever, the natural gas still maintains pressure to our house and we can use our grill and gas heat stoves, when the boiler is down due to it requiring electricity for the pumps. Has anyone ever experienced natural gas being shut off over wide regions due to power failures? If authorities can prioritize maintaining nat. gas, it would do wonders for heat, generators, etc. I've looked at getting a whole house automatic generator that hooks up to the natural gas line here. Pricey, but maybe worth it. We don't lose power here much, maybe once a year for a few hours at most. Its not really practical to put in a 500-1000 gallon tank for propane, unfortunately. A smaller tank could be done, but I haven't looked into that. Not sure what automatic generators are multi-fuel either. I haven't been able to find much info as to long gas pressure is likely to be usable, but even if it only lasted 10-14 days that'd be something. In a longer grid-down scenario, we'd be screwed here anyways (on the outskirts of a 15k population town, and about 50 miles from the Baltimore area - the citioits are likely to be swarming out of there by then). |
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: “A few months worth of freeze dried” costs a lot more than a home freeze drier that you can make food you actually like and take advantage of sales with.. Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By 1775: I'd like to add here that my purpose is to narrow down where everyone would identify gaps and where they would recommend prioritizing filling thlse gaps in the 2 stated scenarios. Saying that you're too late, or that starting 30 years ago was ideal is not helpful. Not everyone is in their 50s or 60s who have had that amount of time, or the resources to do so. I work with many young people, me telling a 22 year old who is asking for advice "start in 1989" is not helpful. Everyone is at different points in their lives. Some may be starting out at the age you did, some may not have had the financial ability, some may just now be seeing a reason to. Thought exercises can help identify gaps or areas to adjust before something happens and the preps are needed and end up being insufficient. For scenario 1 I would recommend focusing on the foods they already eat. Create a deep pantry they can pull from and constantly rotate that. I would also recommend a deep freezer and buying some extra meat. A generator and fuel storage would also be needed but would probably start to push above that $2k budget. For scenario 2, which is a similar situation to where I am actually in in my actual preps, I would lean towards solar generator and portable panels. The biggest shortfall is the amount of food storage that relies on electricity. A solar solution would allow for that to run almost indefinitely and would also allow for other electronics to be charged, window ac unit ran, etc. Both scenario recommendations revolve around power and a large part of that is because of how integral it is to our daily lives and how vulnerable the grid is. Generator in 1 is limited by fuel and can be heard from miles away. However in the hurricane belt they are not out of the norm and the initial week wouldn't draw too much attention. I also don't think grid issued would be permanent but more of a intermittent or short term issue due to cyber and physical attacks. One area that I didn't recommend but am seriously considering is investing in a few months of freeze dried food. These would not be ideal but seem to be a great last case scenario insurance plan to prevent starvation. “A few months worth of freeze dried” costs a lot more than a home freeze drier that you can make food you actually like and take advantage of sales with.. The best part of freeze dried food is you can buy a smaller amount at a time and not worry about the stuff. I picked up a lot of #10 cans over the past 6 years off Amazon as I see stuff go one sale and have 10 large totes full of FD veggies and meat now. Probably thousands of dollars cost averaged. I hope to never have to eat any of the stuff, but it gives me peace of mind knowing if all else fails, we can dig into the FD and grind our own wheat for bread. If going the hard winter wheat route, buy a wheat grinder that will last generations. I splurged a few years ago on a Country Living grinder with spare grinding plates and an electric drive (along with a hand crank); the electric drive can run off one of my solar generators and I could even rig the flywheel which is belt driven to run off a bicycle if necessary. I know people who have Freeze Dryers and consider them interesting, but still very reliant on power grid. Useful before disruption to accumulate supplies, but certainly not during a WW3 event were all resupply of critical electronics will be immediately rationed for national defense needs. I foresee there would be a lot of bricked cars, appliances, anything with computers manufactured overseas that we can't get replacements for. A good prep plan needs to either include critical spares for your primary vehicle, or driving something older that you can find parts for at common pick and pull lots. Probably anything newer than 2015 would be a liability in the long term. |
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: And go where? You think the locals will want nomads just hanging around killing the deer they were planning to eat or competing for resources they have no right to? You might not think of it this way, but there is virtually no place in this country where you could just bug out to and not be a problem for someone after SHTF. You’ll run out of food, medicine, water, whatever soon enough, and now you likely can’t go home to the city because squatters have your house now. Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By Shadyman: Number one prep…….get the hell out of cities and towns and large population areas and down wind of nuclear weapon targets. 100 miles minimum walking distance from those areas. And go where? You think the locals will want nomads just hanging around killing the deer they were planning to eat or competing for resources they have no right to? You might not think of it this way, but there is virtually no place in this country where you could just bug out to and not be a problem for someone after SHTF. You’ll run out of food, medicine, water, whatever soon enough, and now you likely can’t go home to the city because squatters have your house now. This. We live in an affluent suburb and aren't going anywhere unless the whole subdivision is on fire after the bombs drop. That particular bug out plan would take us somewhere very few others have identified as a refuge but would definitely piss off some locals upon arrival. If your plan is to head to the countryside at the first sign of trouble, you will be a refugee and treated accordingly. Best bring enough goods/food to trade your way in or enough firepower & people to not be fucked with upon arrival (both if possible). |
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Some areas, due to growth, have a limited amount of natural gas supply. Largest city near me pleads with people to reduce consumption during extremely cold snaps. During normal winter temps, they have enough capacity but when temps drop lower than normal, the system doesn’t have enough capacity to provide 100% of the needs. If I had natural gas, I’d have a back up that is not natural gas. Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Originally Posted By erichard: How easy is it for authorities to maintain natural gas flow through the pipes in various scenarios, grid down, etc. I know when our power goes out, from hurricanes or whatever, the natural gas still maintains pressure to our house and we can use our grill and gas heat stoves, when the boiler is down due to it requiring electricity for the pumps. Has anyone ever experienced natural gas being shut off over wide regions due to power failures? If authorities can prioritize maintaining nat. gas, it would do wonders for heat, generators, etc. Some areas, due to growth, have a limited amount of natural gas supply. Largest city near me pleads with people to reduce consumption during extremely cold snaps. During normal winter temps, they have enough capacity but when temps drop lower than normal, the system doesn’t have enough capacity to provide 100% of the needs. If I had natural gas, I’d have a back up that is not natural gas. I will add that much of the gas infrastructure is being electrified due to emissions. This is what contributed to some of the power failures in texas a few years ago under unusually cold weather (potentially to be repeated next week). This means, if the grid fails, a lot of compressor stations will also fail and gas won't flow reliably. Do not assume to have a source of NG to run your generator if you live anywhere with strict pollution controls or that is far away from natural gas production (Looking at you ID/NV/AZ corridor!) |
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Solid topic, but it all comes down to the season: extreme temps will kill you faster than starvation, whether it's scorching heat or freezing cold. For the Level 1 family, who have basically nothing, I’d blow that $2k on buying time and basic comfort. If it’s summer, an inverter generator and a small window AC unit are critical to cool at least one bedroom for sleeping, otherwise heat stroke is guaranteed. If it’s winter, you need an indoor-safe propane heater (like a Mr. Buddy / Big Buddy) with a stockpile of gas, plus rated backpacking sleeping bags for sub-zero temps, because a house without heat will freeze over in 24 hours. The rest of the cash should go into a good gravity water filter and a mountain of cheap calories like rice and beans, plus a camp stove. They just need to survive that first month of being off-grid. The Level 2 family has trickier problems. In summer, their main headache is keeping those freezers full of meat from spoiling, and in winter, not burning through all their fuel reserves on heat and light. Gas generators are fine, but they’re loud and guzzle scarce fuel, so I’d invest in a solar setup for 'silent' energy (comms, lights, charging) and a manual hand pump for the well so they have water regardless of the grid. Definitely grab a stockpile of canning lids—if the generator dies or fuel runs dry, they’ll need to emergency-can that meat. Also, pool chemicals to keep it as a reservoir of gray water and prevent it from turning into a swamp in the summer. But honestly, here is universal advice: kill the main breaker on a Friday night. You’ll figure out your weak points immediately—whether you're too hot, too cold, or have no way to cook.[/b][/b][/b] |
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Originally Posted By 1775: I took it to mean move from the cities, not bug out when something happens. That being said it's essentially a nonsensical answer saying anyone who doesn't live 100 miles from a city shouldn't either bother preparing for anything. If your plan is to move from the city to a rural area you'd best get on that plan right away, because a lot of rural folks are going to consider you an outsider unless your family has been in that area for a few generations. You yourself moving out to the country will get you seen as that recent transplant who moved into the old Johnson place or built a new house on their old hunting land. Unless you are really good and building bridges and get some good neighbors I dont see it going well for any recent transplant once things get bad |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By PointBlank82: The best part of freeze dried food is you can buy a smaller amount at a time and not worry about the stuff. I picked up a lot of #10 cans over the past 6 years off Amazon as I see stuff go one sale and have 10 large totes full of FD veggies and meat now. Probably thousands of dollars cost averaged. I hope to never have to eat any of the stuff, but it gives me peace of mind knowing if all else fails, we can dig into the FD and grind our own wheat for bread. If going the hard winter wheat route, buy a wheat grinder that will last generations. I splurged a few years ago on a Country Living grinder with spare grinding plates and an electric drive (along with a hand crank); the electric drive can run off one of my solar generators and I could even rig the flywheel which is belt driven to run off a bicycle if necessary. I know people who have Freeze Dryers and consider them interesting, but still very reliant on power grid. Useful before disruption to accumulate supplies, but certainly not during a WW3 event were all resupply of critical electronics will be immediately rationed for national defense needs. I foresee there would be a lot of bricked cars, appliances, anything with computers manufactured overseas that we can't get replacements for. A good prep plan needs to either include critical spares for your primary vehicle, or driving something older that you can find parts for at common pick and pull lots. Probably anything newer than 2015 would be a liability in the long term. Don't forget the spare parts kit for the CL mill. We lost the "key" that holds the wheel to the main bar about 25 years ago, it was impossible to find the same exact one locally. CL started offering a spare parts kit and we bought 3 of them. Agree on buying a freeze dryer, I don't see the point for most people. Even when we were putting up 300-500 quarts of fruit and veg all home grown, I didn't see the point. I don't understand the folks that don't PRODUCE a metric arse ton of food themselves buying one. That $3K or whatever they are now would be better spent on finished product if you have to purchase your food any way. |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
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Many things you can be recommended to buy.. Food, water and shelter was taught in the 60s school, where i learned it... Get a room to fill, you'll likely bug in, not bug out... Go camping, basics will keep you alive, learn skills as basic everyday conveniences will not be there... How long can you survive on what you have??? |
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Don't forget the spare parts kit for the CL mill. We lost the "key" that holds the wheel to the main bar about 25 years ago, it was impossible to find the same exact one locally. CL started offering a spare parts kit and we bought 3 of them. Agree on buying a freeze dryer, I don't see the point for most people. Even when we were putting up 300-500 quarts of fruit and veg all home grown, I didn't see the point. I don't understand the folks that don't PRODUCE a metric arse ton of food themselves buying one. That $3K or whatever they are now would be better spent on finished product if you have to purchase your food any way. Yup, I have the full spares kit. I love my CL grain mill, although I cut grain for the next few months to get the weight under control, my kids eat a lot of bread and the stuff we make is better than anything you can buy. |
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Don't forget the spare parts kit for the CL mill. We lost the "key" that holds the wheel to the main bar about 25 years ago, it was impossible to find the same exact one locally. CL started offering a spare parts kit and we bought 3 of them. Agree on buying a freeze dryer, I don't see the point for most people. Even when we were putting up 300-500 quarts of fruit and veg all home grown, I didn't see the point. I don't understand the folks that don't PRODUCE a metric arse ton of food themselves buying one. That $3K or whatever they are now would be better spent on finished product if you have to purchase your food any way. Split a freeze dryer with my brothers. It stays at my brothers house. He will freeze dry a bunch of food. He had prepped whole meals, but the general consensus is that we should do individual items. I have enough food for several months for myself on just the FD food we prepared. That isn't bad splitting the initial cost. The food is light weight and easy to move if needed. My canned food isn't. |
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Originally Posted By dsquared_5: Split a freeze dryer with my brothers. It stays at my brothers house. He will freeze dry a bunch of food. He had prepped whole meals, but the general consensus is that we should do individual items. I have enough food for several months for myself on just the FD food we prepared. That isn't bad splitting the initial cost. The food is light weight and easy to move if needed. My canned food isn't. I get it. I just personally don't see the investment for folks that aren't producing their own food. You always see these threads talking about them and how "we went to the farmer's market and bought 50 lbs. of apples.." or "got this chuck roast on sale and.." If your already buying the food AND doing the labor... and then maybe putting up in mylar (also cost), why not just buy FD #10 cans for better longevity? |
www.jrhenterprises.com
In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: I get it. I just personally don't see the investment for folks that aren't producing their own food. You always see these threads talking about them and how "we went to the farmer's market and bought 50 lbs. of apples.." or "got this chuck roast on sale and.." If your already buying the food AND doing the labor... and then maybe putting up in mylar (also cost), why not just buy FD #10 cans for better longevity? Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Originally Posted By dsquared_5: Split a freeze dryer with my brothers. It stays at my brothers house. He will freeze dry a bunch of food. He had prepped whole meals, but the general consensus is that we should do individual items. I have enough food for several months for myself on just the FD food we prepared. That isn't bad splitting the initial cost. The food is light weight and easy to move if needed. My canned food isn't. I get it. I just personally don't see the investment for folks that aren't producing their own food. You always see these threads talking about them and how "we went to the farmer's market and bought 50 lbs. of apples.." or "got this chuck roast on sale and.." If your already buying the food AND doing the labor... and then maybe putting up in mylar (also cost), why not just buy FD #10 cans for better longevity? This! I have an extensive garden and was tempted to monocrop certain items and get into the FD game (large production of tomatoes, greenbeans, berries etc.) but realized we get a lot more out of life eating those veggies fresh or just freezing the excess. I can buy FD peas, corn whatever for a lot less time and effort while still enjoying fresh garden. It helps that we don't intend to eat the stuff, although the FD berries do really well in the kids cereal and baked goods when out of season. YMMV. |
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Originally Posted By erichard: How easy is it for authorities to maintain natural gas flow through the pipes in various scenarios, grid down, etc. I know when our power goes out, from hurricanes or whatever, the natural gas still maintains pressure to our house and we can use our grill and gas heat stoves, when the boiler is down due to it requiring electricity for the pumps. Has anyone ever experienced natural gas being shut off over wide regions due to power failures? If authorities can prioritize maintaining nat. gas, it would do wonders for heat, generators, etc. The town 12 miles from me just shut off commercial commercial users in order to keep adequate pressure for residential customers. That tells me they are running pretty close to failure as it is. |
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Originally Posted By billclo: I've looked at getting a whole house automatic generator that hooks up to the natural gas line here. Pricey, but maybe worth it. We don't lose power here much, maybe once a year for a few hours at most. Its not really practical to put in a 500-1000 gallon tank for propane, unfortunately. A smaller tank could be done, but I haven't looked into that. Not sure what automatic generators are multi-fuel either. I haven't been able to find much info as to long gas pressure is likely to be usable, but even if it only lasted 10-14 days that'd be something. In a longer grid-down scenario, we'd be screwed here anyways (on the outskirts of a 15k population town, and about 50 miles from the Baltimore area - the citioits are likely to be swarming out of there by then). Most of the generators that use natural gas can be converted to run propane easily. Gas fueled ones are more work, but kits area available for some. Depending on your generator propane vapor draw, there could be a concern if your small tank would be able to transfer enough cold through the wall of the tank to allow liquid propane to evaporate to propane vapor (which is what your generator burns). This is not normally an issue with larger tanks since they have the surface area to accomplish enough temperature transfer to keep propane liquid evaporation ongoing - unless the outside temperature is approaching -40f. In this situation, you are limited to heating the tank, either by directing generator exhaust towards it, and building a temporary sort of tent around the tank to increase the temperature difference (I have had to do this), or for the less intelligent by building a fire under it or using a torch to heat the bottom of the tank. The second method is not recommended in any way - really, don't do this. You can daisy chain a few smaller tanks together to increase surface area, and give the temperature difference a better chance of dissipating so that evaporation would occur. |
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Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
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Originally Posted By 505stevec: I remember reading the book “the Road”. I was very amazed that he was walking around with one bullet in his gun. I would say to start getting guns if they have none, ammo for each gun if they have some, and food. Just buy a little every payday, aside from what you normally get. Originally Posted By 505stevec: I remember reading the book “the Road”. I was very amazed that he was walking around with one bullet in his gun. I would say to start getting guns if they have none, ammo for each gun if they have some, and food. Just buy a little every payday, aside from what you normally get. .. Originally Posted By DaGoose: In case you didn't know, the events in the book were 10 years after the catastrophe that happened. Even with thousands of rounds, I'm not sure you could keep it for 10 years especially if you were on the move all the time. A good read is the Book "The Postman" by David Brin. He is hardly one of us, but pointed out that beans to get through famine & hunger are as important as bullets. Lots of ammunition is burned up in the initial chaos, leaving surviving rounds "blessed little relics of a now passed technological age"... Bigger_Hammer 
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LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY,
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: No way in hell I would get CERT training. That’s a pool of people that can be pressed into service by the government under emergency orders. Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By R_S: For the normies, point them to https://www.ready.gov/ It provides the basics of building a 72 hour kit here For training, start here: Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) There are plenty of people who were told to "buy a gun" who have zero knowledge of firearms, their use, or the will to use them. Guns are major assets for us, but for normies there is the potential to just be a liability. Probably best to have them do basic pistol training and/or LTC training before the non-gun people jump into firearms with both feet. No way in hell I would get CERT training. That’s a pool of people that can be pressed into service by the government under emergency orders. Errrr.... no. There is ZERO commitment |
per aspera ad astra
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Originally Posted By lumper: Most of the generators that use natural gas can be converted to run propane easily. Gas fueled ones are more work, but kits area available for some. Depending on your generator propane vapor draw, there could be a concern if your small tank would be able to transfer enough cold through the wall of the tank to allow liquid propane to evaporate to propane vapor (which is what your generator burns). This is not normally an issue with larger tanks since they have the surface area to accomplish enough temperature transfer to keep propane liquid evaporation ongoing - unless the outside temperature is approaching -40f. In this situation, you are limited to heating the tank, either by directing generator exhaust towards it, and building a temporary sort of tent around the tank to increase the temperature difference (I have had to do this), or for the less intelligent by building a fire under it or using a torch to heat the bottom of the tank. The second method is not recommended in any way - really, don't do this. You can daisy chain a few smaller tanks together to increase surface area, and give the temperature difference a better chance of dissipating so that evaporation would occur. Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of that issue. |
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: China imports about 75% of their oil. A huge chunk of their oil comes through the Straits of Malacca. A few US Navy ships and that flow stops. Some oil comes from Venezuela. Well that flow can now be easily stopped if war breaks out. China gets somewhere around 20% of their oil via pipeline from Russia. So, war breaks out with China we blockade the Straits of Malacca and stop Venezuela oil. A short time later China folds. Can China cause a lot of problems? Sure. If they do, we blockade them and China as we know it ceases to exist a short time later. China's surface navy isn't nuclear. So, they are totally dependent on oil to run the majority of their navy. China has very little oil of their own to extract so they are extremely dependent on imported oil. China also has very poor growing soil (compared to parts of the farmland in the US or farmland in countries like Ukraine). That makes China dependent on food imports. Food and oil is China’s greatest weakness. Lack of people may become their next one as their population ages and dies off. Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Originally Posted By Brawndo: I disagree. . China and the USA will be the main theatres for the next war. Probably one in Europe as we will be too occupied to help. India and Pakistan will try to annihilate each other too. The USA would absolutely be crippled by massive power generation and internet attack. China's navy may be lacking, but their cargo and tanker game is not. When you add in that they don't care if their troops make it back, it makes an invasion far more feasible. Ports and coastal cities are soft targets. Who knows, China's sleeper cells may already be here waiting for the signal to attack our grid. As I type this Verizon Wireless is experiencing nationwide outages. Hmmm. China imports about 75% of their oil. A huge chunk of their oil comes through the Straits of Malacca. A few US Navy ships and that flow stops. Some oil comes from Venezuela. Well that flow can now be easily stopped if war breaks out. China gets somewhere around 20% of their oil via pipeline from Russia. So, war breaks out with China we blockade the Straits of Malacca and stop Venezuela oil. A short time later China folds. Can China cause a lot of problems? Sure. If they do, we blockade them and China as we know it ceases to exist a short time later. China's surface navy isn't nuclear. So, they are totally dependent on oil to run the majority of their navy. China has very little oil of their own to extract so they are extremely dependent on imported oil. China also has very poor growing soil (compared to parts of the farmland in the US or farmland in countries like Ukraine). That makes China dependent on food imports. Food and oil is China’s greatest weakness. Lack of people may become their next one as their population ages and dies off. 
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per aspera ad astra
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Originally Posted By R_S: Errrr.... no. There is ZERO commitment Originally Posted By R_S: Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By R_S: For the normies, point them to https://www.ready.gov/ It provides the basics of building a 72 hour kit here For training, start here: Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) There are plenty of people who were told to "buy a gun" who have zero knowledge of firearms, their use, or the will to use them. Guns are major assets for us, but for normies there is the potential to just be a liability. Probably best to have them do basic pistol training and/or LTC training before the non-gun people jump into firearms with both feet. No way in hell I would get CERT training. That’s a pool of people that can be pressed into service by the government under emergency orders. Errrr.... no. There is ZERO commitment Yeah that's REALLY a stretch. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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For both I would say be prepared to start a garden. They can get all the heirloom seeds they will ever need for about $100 and a good start on enough stuff for canning for another $3-400. If they don’t have the right tools for a garden, estate sales and actions are a goldmine. It’s also a good place to find more cannon jars on the cheap. Since they have basic trauma kits I would suggest spending some $$$ on boo boo kits for cuts and such as that will be a much more likely need than trauma. I would also lay in a solid supply of OTC meds. After that I would ensure a basic stock of ammo and then start in on water storage and purification as so many others have mentioned. TBH 2k isn’t much to work with but that was the given scenario. |
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Though admittedly I didn’t read the whole thread, my biggest concern is firewood for winter. We can stay alive with our fireplace if we don’t run out of wood, but making firewood when you need it would be the wrong time. I have just over two cords now and that’s plenty when I use my natural gas furnace, but if we had to use wood I’m not really sure how far that would go. |
I’m good with a J frame.
I’ve never missed a single target that I’ve pressed the muzzle up against.
I’ve never missed a single target that I’ve pressed the muzzle up against.
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Originally Posted By PBOutdoors: Though admittedly I didn’t read the whole thread, my biggest concern is firewood for winter. We can stay alive with our fireplace if we don’t run out of wood, but making firewood when you need it would be the wrong time. I have just over two cords now and that’s plenty when I use my natural gas furnace, but if we had to use wood I’m not really sure how far that would go. That would also be my issue living in a cold AO (very cold this year.) I process enough firewood ahead of each winter but it's something I spend a lot of time doing solo each year. I have enough timber on my property for my lifetime but it's an annual task. If I consolidated my efforts and didn't just do whatever stage of the process, I feel like depending on weather and my mood I could probably get a years' worth done with 10 gallons of gas. I wouldn't split it to the extent I do now and probably focus on smaller rounds that don't need to be split 4 or 6 times. My 10 gallon estimate includes using the ATV to move it, chainsaw to cut it, and wood splitter for the bigger stuff. Noise of a chainsaw travels and would create a huge target if everyone else is out of gas though. I don't want to think about what it would take if I could only use a handsaw.  As it is right now, I use my mini excavator to make it easier.Of course, heating the house SHTF survival mode is different than keeping all floors above 70 so I can be comfy when sitting in my recliner. My house is setup to heat via woodstove located in the walk out basement. I use the zoned electric baseboard during the shoulder seasons otherwise the house would be 80. Building a fire in the woodstove every other night just to yoyo the temps from 65-80 annoys me so unless we get a cold snap or the highs stay below 30~40 I just turn the dial until it clicks. I have enough down trees cut to log length for the next year or two after this winter right now because of clearing some land to make room for a project. Attached File |
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
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Originally Posted By thederrick106: That would also be my issue living in a cold AO (very cold this year.) I process enough firewood ahead of each winter but it's something I spend a lot of time doing solo each year. I have enough timber on my property for my lifetime but it's an annual task. If I consolidated my efforts and didn't just do whatever stage of the process, I feel like depending on weather and my mood I could probably get a years' worth done with 10 gallons of gas. I wouldn't split it to the extent I do now and probably focus on smaller rounds that don't need to be split 4 or 6 times. My 10 gallon estimate includes using the ATV to move it, chainsaw to cut it, and wood splitter for the bigger stuff. Noise of a chainsaw travels and would create a huge target if everyone else is out of gas though. I don't want to think about what it would take if I could only use a handsaw. As it is right now, I use my mini excavator to make it easier.Of course, heating the house SHTF survival mode is different than keeping all floors above 70 so I can be comfy when sitting in my recliner. My house is setup to heat via woodstove located in the walk out basement. I use the zoned electric baseboard during the shoulder seasons otherwise the house would be 80. Building a fire in the woodstove every other night just to yoyo the temps from 65-80 annoys me so unless we get a cold snap or the highs stay below 30~40 I just turn the dial until it clicks. I have enough down trees cut to log length for the next year or two after this winter right now because of clearing some land to make room for a project. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/140266/775b7fc5-25d4-4dc2-90ab-02f2780d4757_jpg-3708024.JPG Honda Generator splitter from Lowes? Looks just like mine. They are bulletproof! We used to keep ours over at the range property to split wood there. Once every few years the creek there floods bad. I had to take a canoe out to get my excavator and that splitter was chained to a tree next to the excavator, it was almost completely underwater. Got the excavator going, went to hoist the splitter up to walk it out with the excavator, remembered "it's chained to the damn tree!".... paddled back to a drop spot, got back in the Ranger, drove 5 minutes home soaking wet, got the key, drove back, undid the lock and got the splitter out of there. Changed all the fluids, gas, etc. and it fired right up. That was 5 or 6 years ago now and it starts every time still. That Honda engine is evidently super common, ordering spares for all of our smaller power equipment, I noticed our Husqvarna tiller uses the same engine- less spare parts to stock, yes. Great tillers, about 15 years going on mine now. |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Honda Generator splitter from Lowes? Looks just like mine. They are bulletproof! We used to keep ours over at the range property to split wood there. Once every few years the creek there floods bad. I had to take a canoe out to get my excavator and that splitter was chained to a tree next to the excavator, it was almost completely underwater. Got the excavator going, went to hoist the splitter up to walk it out with the excavator, remembered "it's chained to the damn tree!".... paddled back to a drop spot, got back in the Ranger, drove 5 minutes home soaking wet, got the key, drove back, undid the lock and got the splitter out of there. Changed all the fluids, gas, etc. and it fired right up. That was 5 or 6 years ago now and it starts every time still. That Honda engine is evidently super common, ordering spares for all of our smaller power equipment, I noticed our Husqvarna tiller uses the same engine- less spare parts to stock, yes. Great tillers, about 15 years going on mine now. Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Originally Posted By thederrick106: That would also be my issue living in a cold AO (very cold this year.) I process enough firewood ahead of each winter but it's something I spend a lot of time doing solo each year. I have enough timber on my property for my lifetime but it's an annual task. If I consolidated my efforts and didn't just do whatever stage of the process, I feel like depending on weather and my mood I could probably get a years' worth done with 10 gallons of gas. I wouldn't split it to the extent I do now and probably focus on smaller rounds that don't need to be split 4 or 6 times. My 10 gallon estimate includes using the ATV to move it, chainsaw to cut it, and wood splitter for the bigger stuff. Noise of a chainsaw travels and would create a huge target if everyone else is out of gas though. I don't want to think about what it would take if I could only use a handsaw. As it is right now, I use my mini excavator to make it easier.Of course, heating the house SHTF survival mode is different than keeping all floors above 70 so I can be comfy when sitting in my recliner. My house is setup to heat via woodstove located in the walk out basement. I use the zoned electric baseboard during the shoulder seasons otherwise the house would be 80. Building a fire in the woodstove every other night just to yoyo the temps from 65-80 annoys me so unless we get a cold snap or the highs stay below 30~40 I just turn the dial until it clicks. I have enough down trees cut to log length for the next year or two after this winter right now because of clearing some land to make room for a project. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/140266/775b7fc5-25d4-4dc2-90ab-02f2780d4757_jpg-3708024.JPG Honda Generator splitter from Lowes? Looks just like mine. They are bulletproof! We used to keep ours over at the range property to split wood there. Once every few years the creek there floods bad. I had to take a canoe out to get my excavator and that splitter was chained to a tree next to the excavator, it was almost completely underwater. Got the excavator going, went to hoist the splitter up to walk it out with the excavator, remembered "it's chained to the damn tree!".... paddled back to a drop spot, got back in the Ranger, drove 5 minutes home soaking wet, got the key, drove back, undid the lock and got the splitter out of there. Changed all the fluids, gas, etc. and it fired right up. That was 5 or 6 years ago now and it starts every time still. That Honda engine is evidently super common, ordering spares for all of our smaller power equipment, I noticed our Husqvarna tiller uses the same engine- less spare parts to stock, yes. Great tillers, about 15 years going on mine now. Yup. We bought it brand new from Lowes around 2010. Troybilt brand with the Honda vertical shaft engine. I only use it for my own firewood, been stored outside under some type of cover usually a heavy canvas tarp for the last 16 years. Other than change the engine oil every spring, and hydraulic filter once or twice over the years I have just used it. I do clean it up at least once a year and coat the beam with waste motor oil. Still has the original tires but at this point they are probably filled with a quart or so of green tire slime ETA/ other than the sun scorched plastic fenders it still looks new. Oh, and I do replace the bolts on the side wood holder beam extender things occasionally. Breaks the bolts when letting heavy rounds slam down. I can back the broken bolt off with vise grips and thread a new one in there. I consider them sheer pins though at this point. |
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
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Originally Posted By DIYinSTL: I would start by giving them a copy of "One Second After" by William R Forstchen, just to get them in the right frame of mind. It is fiction but the challenges faced are plausible for any SHTF scenario. It is also the book that has started many folks on their prepping journey. For family 1, help them find a way to maintain a supply of potable water, some recipes for dog, and a book of prayers for restoring order in the world. For family 2, they also will need a sustainable supply of potable water but in a way that does not require electricity. Their initial problem will be keeping the freezer cold and unless they acquire a large solar system, that is where the electricity ration needs to be allocated. They will need a way to dispose of human waste without contaminating the water supply. Stored food only lasts for so long, whether limited by amount stored or age. A sustainable source of food will, in short order, be necessary for survival. At least buy extra garden seeds every spring and start to compost. Supplies for maple sugaring, including a brace and bits to drill holes for the spiles (taps.) You do not need sugar maples for this. Since they are on a budget, saved glass jars can be reused for canning. An air gun will take small game, is relatively quiet, and pellets are much cheaper and take far less space than even .22. Trade items, if they are lucky enough to end up in an environment that allows it. Booze and coffee might be the most valuable. I continue to debate about ammo. What else is irreplaceable? Whether for trade or self, shoes/boots and socks. You can't have too many socks. As far as barter items, .22 rimfire ammo is a great one for sure. |
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Originally Posted By cubie: Also, don't forget about personal hygiene stuff. Folks tend to overlook that. Extra bar soap, tooth brushes/paste, etc Feminine hygiene products will be worth their weight in gold. |
Proud Member-Team Ranstad
I know. Everbody funny. Now you funny too.
I know. Everbody funny. Now you funny too.
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Originally Posted By Shadyman: Number one prep…….get the hell out of cities and towns and large population areas and down wind of nuclear weapon targets. 100 miles minimum walking distance from those areas. This simply isn't realistic for the majority of people. People need to work to be able to afford basics, like food and housing. In the areas you are mentioning, there simply aren't enough jobs to support large numbers of people. If there were, it would become just another urban area. People will just have to be able to adapt to the changing conditions a major incident or long term situation will present. |
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer
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Originally Posted By Novelty: Ammo. Component shortage likely as raw materials diverted to a war effort. Almost 0 chance of land invasion so you wont needbit for a Red Dawn, but training takes a hit without ammo. I doubt food guns and other things made in US will be affected. I will not agree, everything is affected when the supply chain is interrupted. Example, those canned tomatoes from from wherever are not on the shelf. So domestic production has to fill the void. It will be surprising the number of items that will be in short supply. Or the war effort will take priority. |
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Originally Posted By thederrick106: Yup. We bought it brand new from Lowes around 2010. Troybilt brand with the Honda vertical shaft engine. I only use it for my own firewood, been stored outside under some type of cover usually a heavy canvas tarp for the last 16 years. Other than change the engine oil every spring, and hydraulic filter once or twice over the years I have just used it. I do clean it up at least once a year and coat the beam with waste motor oil. Still has the original tires but at this point they are probably filled with a quart or so of green tire slime ETA/ other than the sun scorched plastic fenders it still looks new. Oh, and I do replace the bolts on the side wood holder beam extender things occasionally. Breaks the bolts when letting heavy rounds slam down. I can back the broken bolt off with vise grips and thread a new one in there. I consider them sheer pins though at this point. All we've had is the knock the handle up to auto return assembly come off- I think my son was man handling it a bit much and the little clip came off. Found replacements online. I bought extra carb assemblies and pull starts but this little Honda is impressive. |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
912.375.1480
[email protected]
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Originally Posted By Ndenway1twicetimes: Bulk ammo, antibiotics, booze & cigarettes Coffee, and more coffee. I only know a few people who smoke and a few drinkers but everyone I know drinks coffee. I keep a good number of freeze-dried brinks of coffee in my stash. |
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Originally Posted By stpeteaustin: Coffee, and more coffee. I only know a few people who smoke and a few drinkers but everyone I know drinks coffee. I keep a good number of freeze-dried brinks of coffee in my stash. Good plan. I keep 6 months to a year's worth of drip coffee on hand. Chocolate is another good item to have on hand. |
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This thread has been on my mind lately. Over the years since acquiring my own home, I’ve slowly built up stocks. My goal has been to ride out two weeks here in suburbia. First, it was guns and ammo (this is ARFCOM after all). Next, it was water. I started keeping skids of water bottles around but expanded as our family expanded. Now I keep four Aquitainers for drinking/cooking full plus the waterbob. I’m looking to add a filter. Then, it was power and warmth. An Anker Solix. Two small inverter generators. Rotating out fuel. Now it’s onto food. We have a decently stocked freezer and pantry. I have about a dozen freeze dried meals on hand and will be expanding that with some other dried goods and #10 cans. What I know nothing about are long-term “boring” food preps. Aka lentils and rice. To start I’d like a 4-5 gallon bucket of each. 4 preferred because square buckets are easier to store in my closet. My plan was to hit Costco for the lentils and beans. The square buckets, Mylar bags, annd oxygen absorbers I can get off of Amazon. There are some ready-made buckets on Amazon for a few dollars more than I can peacemeal all of this. One brand was Wheatland. Is there any real reason to not hit the easy button here? Better yet, is there an ARFCOM-approved vendor who offers similar? |