Very important on why not to support RRA anymore (Page 7 of 8)
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
This is apparently gun industry suicide month: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1994434_JoeBob-Outfitters-is-attempting-to-AROCK-a-friend.html 
Let's not get this thread locked too for going on a "witch-hunt" at a Law Of Three convention... 
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Aimless: "No one is losing their free dental for your 2A rights"
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Originally Posted By cih9330:
come on Steve what have you got to say are you going to answer for this Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA |
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA  Now because of your and sa sellout we have to spend all summer fighting this retarded bill. God forbid cullerton and madigan find a way to force it through. I guess you didn't give them enough money?
I hope you guys and SA go bankrupt. Traitors need to pay for their crimes. |
Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -Ronald Reagan-
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Originally Posted By cih9330:
come on Steve what have you got to say are you going to answer for this Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA You're spending an awful lot of time and money due to prior poor decisions. This is entirely self inflicted. |
Chaos, confusion, despair....my work is done here. Murphy
Did you just realize the closest you'll ever be to becoming a hero is wearing your underwear outside your pants?
Madcap72
Did you just realize the closest you'll ever be to becoming a hero is wearing your underwear outside your pants?
Madcap72
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA Too little, too late. Fuck RRA - you donated money to the most virulent anti-2A pigs in Illinois and sold out my friends and family. |
"GD is a playground built in the middle of a sarlacc pit." -SirSqueebo
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Originally Posted By cih9330:
come on Steve what have you got to say are you going to answer for this Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA |
You must play the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By jhereg:
Your company made some good stuff. It's too bad it's dead to me because you took a cowardly exemption instead of fighting against the gun control. Do you really think with all the examples of what gun owners do to companies that throw us under the bus it was a good idea to stab us in the back for an exemption? You chose to cut a deal and run instead of fighting. May your chains rest lightly on you. |
Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -Ronald Reagan-
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA SB1657 is probably dead for now, but it won't go away. Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory picked the wrong citizens to fuck with, and we don't forget. I know that you're not the decision maker Steve, but polish your resume and jump ship while you still can. |
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA
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Originally Posted By KosmoC: The upcoming "emergency" session is regarding the budget with fiscal year end coming up at the end of the month. Your company spent an awful lot of time and money getting your carve out, and those of us who follow those same groups know darn well where the money was spent. It sure as hell wasn't in the best interests of your customer base, otherwise known as "we the people".
SB1657 is probably dead for now, but it won't go away. Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory picked the wrong citizens to fuck with, and we don't forget. I know that you're not the decision maker Steve, but polish your resume and jump ship while you still can. |
I'm the lucky son-of-a-gun who married FW_wife.
When you're Dad to one cop, you're Dad to em all..
Joined:
Jan 2012
Posts:
3377
EE: 100% (1)
IL, USA
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA |
This farm is NOT on the dole...
South of I-80 Illinois is NOT Shitcago!!!
South of I-80 Illinois is NOT Shitcago!!!
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
When does it officially die? @ the end of the session? Or the end of the "emergency" session? The Illinois General Assembly will meet each Wednesday for the foreseeable future in their never-ending quest to find a budget solution. SB-1657 could come up for a vote at any time. However, it’s unlikely all of the House members will show up when nobody expects to conduct meaningful business. For sponsor Kathleen Willis to muster sixty “ayes” without the entire Chicagoland contingent present will be a tall order for her, even on a good day. " From http://www.gunssavelife.com/illinois-dodges-bulletfor-now-gun-dealer-licensing-life-support/ The way I understand it, the bill will have to start from the beginning all over again once they start the next session. They will try again. They always try again, but this one was too damn close for comfort. |
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Originally Posted By KosmoC:
" Now that the regular Spring session has adjourned, it’s unlikely that Representative Willis will be able to cobble together 60 “aye” votes on SB-1657. They have also lost their momentum gained from passage of the bill in the Illinois Senate AND their win in the House committee. The Illinois General Assembly will meet each Wednesday for the foreseeable future in their never-ending quest to find a budget solution. SB-1657 could come up for a vote at any time. However, it’s unlikely all of the House members will show up when nobody expects to conduct meaningful business. For sponsor Kathleen Willis to muster sixty “ayes” without the entire Chicagoland contingent present will be a tall order for her, even on a good day. " From http://www.gunssavelife.com/illinois-dodges-bulletfor-now-gun-dealer-licensing-life-support/ The way I understand it, the bill will have to start from the beginning all over again once they start the next session. They will try again. They always try again, but this one was too damn close for comfort. |
Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -Ronald Reagan-
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
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Originally Posted By KosmoC: " Now that the regular Spring session has adjourned, it’s unlikely that Representative Willis will be able to cobble together 60 “aye” votes on SB-1657. They have also lost their momentum gained from passage of the bill in the Illinois Senate AND their win in the House committee.
The Illinois General Assembly will meet each Wednesday for the foreseeable future in their never-ending quest to find a budget solution. SB-1657 could come up for a vote at any time. However, it’s unlikely all of the House members will show up when nobody expects to conduct meaningful business. For sponsor Kathleen Willis to muster sixty “ayes” without the entire Chicagoland contingent present will be a tall order for her, even on a good day. " From http://www.gunssavelife.com/illinois-dodges-bulletfor-now-gun-dealer-licensing-life-support/ The way I understand it, the bill will have to start from the beginning all over again once they start the next session. They will try again. They always try again, but this one was too damn close for comfort. 
So, this is where I am w/ this. Springfield & RRA fucked up. They got spanked very publicly in the gun culture, and right damn quickly climbed back aboard. American corporate culture can't admit to fuck ups, so they're not going to go out & say we fucked up, but their actions since they were caught are basically as close to an admission and apology as we're likely to get. So from here on out, they will be watched VERY closely by Illinois gun owners. If the bill's effectively dead, I'm willing to allow they saw the light and came to Jesus, as long as they continue on the straight & narrow. I'm not going to run around and say they're blameless angels, but I'll say they saw the light and are going straight. There will be some that never forgive them, and that's fine. Stupid should hurt. But if you recognize that you were stupid, and put your shoulder to the wheel and the worst consequences don't come to fruition, I'm willing to let it go. The whole episode is an object lesson to the rest of the firearms industry. |
I'm the lucky son-of-a-gun who married FW_wife.
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Originally Posted By ludder093:
I hope they rest heavy as fuck. Originally Posted By ludder093:
Originally Posted By jhereg:
Your company made some good stuff. It's too bad it's dead to me because you took a cowardly exemption instead of fighting against the gun control. Do you really think with all the examples of what gun owners do to companies that throw us under the bus it was a good idea to stab us in the back for an exemption? You chose to cut a deal and run instead of fighting. May your chains rest lightly on you. ? Samuel Adams |
You must play the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By ludder093:
Don't under estimate Madigan. It's possible he could still put the screws to everyone to get the 60 votes. I don't think it will pass but I don't put anything past Madigan, He's the most powerful politician in the state. Originally Posted By ludder093:
Originally Posted By KosmoC:
" Now that the regular Spring session has adjourned, it’s unlikely that Representative Willis will be able to cobble together 60 “aye” votes on SB-1657. They have also lost their momentum gained from passage of the bill in the Illinois Senate AND their win in the House committee. The Illinois General Assembly will meet each Wednesday for the foreseeable future in their never-ending quest to find a budget solution. SB-1657 could come up for a vote at any time. However, it’s unlikely all of the House members will show up when nobody expects to conduct meaningful business. For sponsor Kathleen Willis to muster sixty “ayes” without the entire Chicagoland contingent present will be a tall order for her, even on a good day. " From http://www.gunssavelife.com/illinois-dodges-bulletfor-now-gun-dealer-licensing-life-support/ The way I understand it, the bill will have to start from the beginning all over again once they start the next session. They will try again. They always try again, but this one was too damn close for comfort. We got attacked by bloomberg and outside groups this time, which doesn't normally happen, but IL seems to be the new target for those groups and we have to be on the offensive. |
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Originally Posted By KosmoC:
He's a sly son of a bitch for sure. I suppose it could come up during the budget sessions, but he's known for only calling the bills if he knows he has the votes, and like the article points out, alot of reps don't show up, so I'm hopeful. IL is weird in that we have alot of pro-gun dems outside the city that actually do show up and vote, so I don't think Madigan can pull it off at this time. We got attacked by bloomberg and outside groups this time, which doesn't normally happen, but IL seems to be the new target for those groups and we have to be on the offensive. |
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Originally Posted By killingmachine123:
Which is why the little taste of blood they got off of this RRA and Springfield Armory business will probably bring them back. I'm more than upset about it. |
Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -Ronald Reagan-
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." --Mark Twain.
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Originally Posted By ludder093:
Yup. Several of the national gun control groups left DC and focused their efforts on IL. They thought since the state goes blue in presidential elections that they could steam roll up with whatever bullshit laws they could think up. I don't think they appreciated just how hard the gun owners of Illinois would resist them. Other than Chicago there's no support for gun control measures at the state level. The down state Dems are almost all very pro gun and they know they would be in trouble if they voted against gun owners in the state. It's why the betrayal by SA and RRA is so infuriating. They gave the cock suckers in Chicago a glimmer of hope by selling us out. |
| Sad thing is, since SA and RRA had no business sense and instead of learning to better themselves as a company, they thought cheap tricks would give them a business advantage. Kind of why we have so many problems to begin with in our country. It all stems from businesses and people being jealous and making it more difficult for others to succeed. This I want to have my riches, but I sure as well want to make sure no one else can get to where I am. |
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Originally Posted By jdimitri:
Sad thing is, since SA and RRA had no business sense and instead of learning to better themselves as a company, they thought cheap tricks would give them a business advantage. Kind of why we have so many problems to begin with in our country. It all stems from businesses and people being jealous and making it more difficult for others to succeed. This I want to have my riches, but I sure as well want to make sure no one else can get to where I am. |
| The fact that RRA and SA still refuse to openly acknowledge their screw up and continue to try and cover up their crap with these incessant lies should tell you what they think of you as the consumer. The whole reason RRA and SA did this is because of their ineptitude in the industry. They needed an advantage so they were willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. Why we have so many problems to begin with. Competitors purposely trying to make it difficult for their competition by using government bullying instead of being innovative in their products. Pretty damned sad that even this moderator has no back bone to admit to the lies being pushed on us by these two companies. Shows the unethical mindset of everyone in this company. |
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Originally Posted By AWDeity: Were Armalite, LMT, and DSArms going to benefit from SA and RRA's lobbying? |
I'm the lucky son-of-a-gun who married FW_wife.
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
They probably would've in not having to register with the state. But RRA/Springfield were the major contributors to their particular lobbying group. And Armalite, LMT, & DSA would've caught the same crap Springfield & RRA would've had the bill passed. Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By AWDeity: Were Armalite, LMT, and DSArms going to benefit from SA and RRA's lobbying? Steve/RRA |
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
All 164 licensed manufacturers in Illinois (that's the last number I saw from ATF) would have been exempted from the provisions of SB1657, as passed by the Senate, if it had passed unamended by the House. Steve/RRA
At least 162 manufacturers in Illinois have some honor.
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"GD is a playground built in the middle of a sarlacc pit." -SirSqueebo
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
The Legislature is coming back into session next Wednesday and SB1657 is still pending. We're still spending an awful lot of time and money fighting it and every other gun control measure that shows its ugly head. Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Originally Posted By cih9330:
come on Steve what have you got to say are you going to answer for this Just like we have been all along, only now we're working through other pro-gun organizations and their lobbyists. These are the same groups we've always worked with both as RRA and as part of IFMA. Steve/RRA So I have to ask, is an "awful lot of time and money" more or less than the time and money spent to get the exemption???? |
If the Minute Men had buried their guns we would still be a colony.
I don't mean to be captain obvious of the asshole ship but yes, that many of your fellow Americans are THAT stupid. <----originally posted by sleepy56ace
I don't mean to be captain obvious of the asshole ship but yes, that many of your fellow Americans are THAT stupid. <----originally posted by sleepy56ace
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@RRAMODERATOR
It is not a matter of how much money you spent or are spending. RRA got caught red handed trying to get a carve out for yourselves and screwing over all of the legal firearms owners and FFLs in the state. The ONLY reason you are here today is because you got caught. Had this issue not come to light, you would have continued to screw firearms owners in Illinois by supporting rabidly anti-gun candidates and enjoying on your special carve outs. I have no axe to grind with the good people working at RRA, however your owner, Chuck Larson is a pariah in the industry and should be treated thusly. As long as he has any interest in RRA, or has any hand in the management of the company, I wish nothing but poor sales and declining year over year revenue for the company. The same holds true for Dennis Reece and SA. I long for the day when I hear that both companies have been sold and these traitors to our 2A rights are no longer involved in the industry. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
They probably would've in not having to register with the state. But RRA/Springfield were the major contributors to their particular lobbying group. And Armalite, LMT, & DSA would've caught the same crap Springfield & RRA would've had the bill passed. Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By AWDeity: Were Armalite, LMT, and DSArms going to benefit from SA and RRA's lobbying? This is all on Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory. |
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
All 164 licensed manufacturers in Illinois (that's the last number I saw from ATF) would have been exempted from the provisions of SB1657, as passed by the Senate, if it had passed unamended by the House. Steve/RRA Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By AWDeity: Were Armalite, LMT, and DSArms going to benefit from SA and RRA's lobbying? Steve/RRA |
You must play the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By KosmoC: RRA/SA were the "group", owned it, and were the only contributers period. Others in the state would have the exemption, but had absolutely nothing to do with the situation.
This is all on Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory. |
I'm the lucky son-of-a-gun who married FW_wife.
| That sounds like they'd just be throwing money away. You don't win legislative fights by unseating the Speaker of the House very often. You win by unseating his party, and neither of those is likely in Illinois anytime soon. |
I'm the lucky son-of-a-gun who married FW_wife.
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Originally Posted By jhereg:
Do you know the old saying about once you have paid him the dane geld you'll never get rid of the dane? Why in the hell did you guys try for a carve out on a bill that would have gone nowhere without your help? Do you not understand what gun owners will do to you nationwide? If you had fought it tooth and nail we would have fought with you. Originally Posted By jhereg:
Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By AWDeity: Were Armalite, LMT, and DSArms going to benefit from SA and RRA's lobbying? Steve/RRA The fact they refuse to acknowledge and apologize for the mistake, instead doubling down on "we are fighting with you all," is a strategy worthy of the minds that thought this was a good idea in the first place. It will (thankfully) be disastrous to their bottom lines in the long term. |
You can see the moon, but thats means it dont excite? -iasc300ia
I want to die like my uncle did, peacefully in his sleep and not screaming and crying like the people in his car. -J Handy
I want to die like my uncle did, peacefully in his sleep and not screaming and crying like the people in his car. -J Handy
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Actually, there was an apology by RRA's owner in our second statement on the subject, released on May 2, 2017.
And just to address the potential for this ever happening again, it can't. We are completely out of IFMA (the lobbying group that we were part of) and have no intent to hire a lobbyist/lobbying group either individually or as part of any new association in the future. We were not particularly active in IFMA (except on paper) and while that organization was very effective for many years, that lack of active participation and oversight on our part came back to bite us. Shame on us and lesson learned. You won't see any repeats. We are still actively supporting the lobbying efforts and activities of pro-gun groups such as the ISRA, NRA, NSSF, and others which are better situated than we are to play the political games that take place at the capitol. Steve/RRA |
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Actually, there was an apology by RRA's owner in our second statement on the subject, released on May 2, 2017. And just to address the potential for this ever happening again, it can't. We are completely out of IFMA (the lobbying group that we were part of) and have no intent to hire a lobbyist/lobbying group either individually or as part of any new association in the future. We were not particularly active in IFMA (except on paper) and while that organization was very effective for many years, that lack of active participation and oversight on our part came back to bite us. Shame on us and lesson learned. You won't see any repeats. We are still actively supporting the lobbying efforts and activities of pro-gun groups such as the ISRA, NRA, NSSF, and others which are better situated than we are to play the political games that take place at the capitol. Steve/RRA Your money went to gungrabbers and it's unreasonble to think you didn't know where your money was going or that you didn't know about the carve-out. But I guess it was all Springfield's fault now. You were just in the backseat asleep. That's why y'all had to collaborate on coverup statements in the beginning. |
"GD is a playground built in the middle of a sarlacc pit." -SirSqueebo
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Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR:
Actually, there was an apology by RRA's owner in our second statement on the subject, released on May 2, 2017. And just to address the potential for this ever happening again, it can't. We are completely out of IFMA (the lobbying group that we were part of) and have no intent to hire a lobbyist/lobbying group either individually or as part of any new association in the future. We were not particularly active in IFMA (except on paper) and while that organization was very effective for many years, that lack of active participation and oversight on our part came back to bite us. Shame on us and lesson learned. You won't see any repeats. We are still actively supporting the lobbying efforts and activities of pro-gun groups such as the ISRA, NRA, NSSF, and others which are better situated than we are to play the political games that take place at the capitol. Steve/RRA No RRA/SA for me now or in the future. I will be sure to let friends and family know. |
An armed society is a polite society.
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Originally Posted By Ken914:
intent... like Hillary had no intent? Your money went to gungrabbers and it's unreasonble to think you didn't know where your money was going or that you didn't know about the carve-out. But I guess it was all Springfield's fault now. You were just in the backseat asleep. That's why y'all had to collaborate on coverup statements in the beginning. |
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Originally Posted By jhereg:
Anyone know what the current status is? Originally Posted By jhereg:
Originally Posted By Ken914:
Bump
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Aimless: "No one is losing their free dental for your 2A rights"