Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
As a lefty you don't need the right side bolt release..  what is not innovative about it?   The design is over 50 years old.  What do you want?  Don't be sad, you are a grown man.  You put it down but then say you are glad you got it????

Originally Posted By huey_crew_chief:


The guy asked for opinions, so I gave him one.  Your response is uncalled for.  I am glad I got it, because it was Colt's newest product.  However, it was not that innovative and could have been better designed.

Originally Posted By Coalkoy:
https://i.imgur.com/wAAQPeY.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/AY89aEZ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/sGm8tXe.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/w03dRQ0.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/tIZs9F9.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/wmPaswK.jpeg

Thai police received an M5.

Originally Posted By Minuteman1636:


Can I repost your images on my IG page?

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
I am getting the SBR 11.5.  I am launching my 16 inch. It's new in box

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
I am getting the SBR 11.5.  I am launching my 16 inch. It's new in box

Originally Posted By veeklog:



Why don't you you just Form 1 the lower and buy the 11.5" upper? With E-File, you can have your stamp back within 1-3 months

Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Factory SBRs are cooler.

Originally Posted By veeklog:



Why don't you you just Form 1 the lower and buy the 11.5" upper? With E-File, you can have your stamp back within 1-3 months

Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Factory SBRs are cooler.

Originally Posted By airgunner:
So I had to look up the Mac video review to see what everybody was complaining about?

I'll start off by saying, it kind of makes me laugh (even though I don't really understand it?) but some people will defend Colt and anything they do no matter what while others hate them and anything that says "Colt" on it. Mac himself has fallen into that category whereas apparently some people take everything he says as gospel and others will dismiss anything he has to say just because they hate him or his opinion doesn't match their own.

I'm more of a critical thinker kind of guy so I don't automatically accept or dismiss anything based simply on who made it (product or statement). I do really like, appreciate and own a number of Colts. In fact, Colt is the second most represented brand of firearm in my safe but I am not the type of fanboi who defends, justifies or makes excuses for everything Colt does. They are a company of humans so like all humans they do sometimes make mistakes and I don't automatically like everything they produce or agree with every decision they make.

So all that said, on to the video... Yes, Mac made it clear that overall, he's not impressed with the new M5 and doesn't feel it's worth the MSRP price but I can't say I disagree with him or most of what he said...

Price > I agree, that rifle is not worth $2k IMO but street price seems to be coming in ~$1.7k which is still a tad high for what it is IMO. Let's face it, there is nothing especially new or groundbreaking about this rifle. It does have some added features but how relevant or how well executed those new features are is debatable? Personally, I'd argue the 6960 is overall a better rifle and a better value.

Gas rings > if that's really the way his came, it was right for him to mention it but he does make too big of a deal out of it. 1 gas ring wasn't installed correctly. Boohoo, big deal, shit happens but unless they are all coming out that way then so what? The argument about that being unacceptable for a $2k rifle is stupid. Anything made by humans can have issues and I know for a fact, guns costing well more than $2k do on occasion leave the factory with minor issues or defects. Just like the loose BUIS's, check them, fix them as needed and go on with life.

Extra forging material > I'm sorry but he's right about that one and there is no excuse for it at all. I will agree he made too big of a deal out of it but Colt (and their hardcore fanbois) are the only ones who seem to be completely OK with that level of detail. I have had lowers from at least 10 or more other manufactures and Colts are always the worst. Please don't give me the whole "its a combat gun designed for the military" nonsense. So is KAC, LMT, DD and others but they all seem to know how to properly finish a lower. Yes, I get that is has no bearing on functionality and that it's a "Colt thing" but they can and should do better IMO and there is no good excuse for them not too.

Some other items not discussed (or not talked about enough) in the video

Barrel > This is a big miss IMO. Looks like that are just using a standard 6921-OEM2 barrel on these but IMO, it should come with the 6960 barrel (or at least some version of a midlength gas barrel with a straight (non M4 style) profile. The midlength gas system is hands down superior to the carbine gas system on any barrel long enough to use it. Now I get leaving them on the M4 (and derivative) carbines for military purposes but on a next gen DI gun, there is no good reason not to go middy.

Gas port/block > Mac mentions that the M5 is "well gassed" but in his opinion a fighting gun should be "over gassed". I disagree with that (over gassing) but I do think for the money, an adjustable gas block with a section of the forearm opened up to make adjustments easily with a bullet tip is what I would have liked to see.

Trigger pins > Mac mentions they are longer but I would have gone further to say that I think that detail is completely retarded. Serves no purpose and the time/money spent on the additional milling of the receiver and having the new pins made would have been better spent getting rid of the extra flashing on the receiver IMO.

Overall, I don't think this is a bad rifle per say and if I was a true Colt collector, I'm sure I'd have to have one "just cause" but overall, I do think this rifle is a swing and a miss for Colt. Its hyped and priced as a next gen rifle but really, its mostly just the same old stuff with a few tweaks and that's probably (at least partly) why they lost to Sig for the military contracts

Lastly the whole Colt/CZ thing  I've read so many comments over the last year or 2 about "PreCZ Colts" and some people wanting a premium for them cause "CZ has cheapened the whole Colt line" or whatever other nonsense some people are saying so because of that, I found it funny when Mac stated almost the complete opposite concern that he hopes Colt doesn't rub off on CZ and ruin CZ's product line! Just goes to show how people's personal biases affect their take on changes.

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
Well I am an SOT licensee.  I already have a colt 6933-EPR. I just want the SBR 11.5 M5. I don't have to eform anything. I just buy and they submit my license to ATF. 1 week and I get it.

Originally Posted By veeklog:


That is a great option to have

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
The hard part is.. do I get the M5 11.5?  1720$ is steep. I think for what it is and probably as good or better priced compared to a comparable gun.  I want it pretty bad but I have some many other 11.5's. I guess it's like Hugh Hefner. I have 4 beautiful women but I want another one..

Originally Posted By airgunner:
I feel like you and I have already had this same conversation and as I told you last time, just because you personally can't feel the difference doesn't change the fact that the the midlength gas system is superior to the carbine gas system on a 16" barrel and it's not just about feelz or recoil. There are multiple reasons why the midlength is superior. If you really feel the need to, you can try to argue the relevance of those advantages in minimal but you can't argue which one is actually better.

That said, I have no idea how you can't feel the difference? What buffers to you have in your 6920 and 6960? I'm not saying the difference is night and day but it certainly is noticeable. If we took 2 identical built 16" carbines and the only difference between them was the gas system and you had me shoot each of them blindfolded, I bet you I could tell you which one was the carbine gas and which one was the midlength every friggin time.

Sure... your 6960 is a perfect example. I think overall its a flat out better gun but at very least, it's a much better value.

Let's look at what actually differs between the 6960 and the M5...

Upper receiver/forearm interface > The M5 has an integrated receiver/rail interface design that on paper is better compared to the 6960's more traditional 2 piece setup BUT in reality, the Centurion rail is a proven solid design and in real world uses, the M5 design isn't going to be any better in terms of functionality or reliability. It's just a slicker, more integrated design but its not functionally "better" so in the end, what does it matter? I consider this one a wash

Ambi controls > Both have ambi safeties. M5 has Ambi bolt release and mags releases but I don't consider that much, if any, or an advantage because if you wrap your off hand around the mag well (yeah, you know that section of the receiver Colt decided not to finish on the M5), you can activate the mag release or the bolt release with either your thumb or forefinger (depending on which control or which hand you are using).

The only thing IMO that would have been really nice is if you could activate the bolt hold open with your strong hand while operating the charging handle with your off hand but the M5's ambi controls doesn't allow for that so again, I don't feel like the M5 really has any meaningful advantage here.

Barrel > The M5 has the same old M4 profile, carbine gas barrel as the 6920's do. The 6960 has a lightweight, midlength gas system barrel. As already established, the midlength gas system is superior to the carbine gas system and I believe the profile of the 6960 barrel is superior to the M4 profile found on the M5. There is no need for a heavy barrel on a fighting semi-auto rifle and even if there were, the extra "meat" on the standard M4 barrel is in the wrong location (forward of the gas block instead of back towards the chamber).

Everything else about these 2 guns is pretty much the same. I don't see any functional advantage to the M5's ambi controls or integrated receiver/forearm setup but I do see a real advantage to the 6960's barrel over the M5 and that's why IMO, the 6960 is the better gun. That said, for sake of argument let's say you hold more value in the features the M5 has and less value in the 6960's barrel. OK, fine but then let's look at the price...

Street price for an M5 is around $1725-$1750 and street price for the 6960 is ~$1100. Nobody can say with a straight face that the M5 is $600+ better then the 6960. For the savings, you can get a 6960 AND an RDS and WML OR a case of ammo and 10 pack of mags OR even a new handgun to go with it. That's why IMO, there is nothing about the M5 that justifies its price.

We aren't talking about other companies or other rifles so why would I mention them? I only mentioned Sig because that's who won the contract. The M5 design we are talking about here is basically one of 3 designs originally submitted by Colt for the SCAR program. None of the 3 were selected. That seems like the very definition of a "swing and a miss". Now that I think about it, you're kind of right... It was actually more of a "3 strikes and you're out" deal.

At the end of the day, these are obviously just my opinions which is all any of us can state but I at least took the time to explain in detail the reasons that formed my opinion. if you want to disagree, fine but have the common courtesy to explain how you came to your own different conclusions and not just tell me that I'm wrong and biased which BTW is complete BS. I currently own 7 Colts so to say I'm biases against them is moronic. I just don't have my head up so far up Colt's ass that I feel the need to try and defend and/or dismiss away their mistakes or shortcomings.

Originally Posted By airgunner:

No, not at all. From what I've seen, the M5 locks up the same as any other standard AR with a barrel nut.

Originally Posted By airgunner:
What part(s) do you not agree with and why?

Keep in mind, the Crane report was looking at this from the perspective of whether is was worth it for the Military to switch over. That would be a huge and costly conversion for the military because of how invested they already are in carbines. That's not really a valid concern for the average person or small dept, especially if they are starting from scratch.

Calling me biased against Colt because I'm not saying what you want to hear IS moronic because its way off base and not even remotely true.

DD? No. They make great parts and complete guns but yeah, I do think their complete guns are overpriced too. As an example of that, my MK18'ish SBR is almost 100% made with BNIB DD parts. The only exceptions being the receivers (I used Mega Arms (pre-Zev) receivers which are hands down the nicest standard forged receivers ever made - (and I've owned a lot of different receivers over the years), a Geissele rail and Magpul furniture). In total, it cost me a little more than half as much $ to piece it together myself then what it would have cost me to buy an off the shelf complete DD MK18 rifle.

LMT? If I wanted a monolithic upper/ambi lower AR then yes, I would go with the LMT because...

1. It's a true monolithic upper and it's not just about it being 1 piece of aluminum. LMT's design changes and improves the way the barrel is mounted and makes barrel changes a breeze. It also offers both midlength DI gas or piston driven barrel options and its quick and easy to switch back and forth (if you want to for some reason?).
2. It's a true Ambi lower and a better design then Colt's and allows you to activate the bolt hold open with your strong hand
3. Also comes with a better stock (SOPMOD) and I'm not sure that it comes with this for the base price but they also offer an Enhanced BCG group which has a number of improvements over the standard M16 BCG.

Yes, it's more expensive than the M5 but it offers you a lot more for the money too (Oh and they clean up the extra flashing from the forgings too lol)

Its not about "good enough", its about cost to performance ratio. I don't see where the "improvements" found on the M5 justifies the extra $600 over something like the 6960 for the average civilian end user.

Now if I was outfitting a group of war fighters who needed the best and budget wasn't a concern then I would probably go with am LMT MARS with the enhanced BCG. As a package, its truly a significantly improved (and proven) upgrade over a standard AR.

No, not at all. From what I've seen, the M5 locks up the same as any other standard AR with a barrel nut.

Proven by who? LMT's true monolithic receiver has been proven to be better but I've not seen any testing for the Colt M5 receiver set?

There is truth and then there is opinion but 2 different opinions can both be true for the individual people stating them.

Originally Posted By bigdik3006:


The M5 uses an externally threaded barrel nut that interfaces with the inside of the upper, and the barrel nut itself doesnt interface with the mounting of the rail in any way. This is the same way that the Colt 6940, Colt Canada IUR, Vltor VIS, Mega, and Aero COP monolithic uppers do. To say that the barrel mounting isnt the same as a monolithic upper simply because it doesnt share the same method and QD function as the LMT uppers would be wrong. LMT is the only monolithic upper that does so, and that makes it the exception and not the rule

Originally Posted By TGWLDR:
From page 1, this thread:

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Thank you for the explanation. I guess it depends on your interpretation of "monolithic" but in my mind, I go by the Webster dictionary definition of:

a
: cast as a single piece
a monolithic concrete wall
b
: formed or composed of material without joints or seams
a monolithic floor covering
c
: consisting of or constituting a single unit

So to me it means a one piece design, not two pieces joined together but I realize like most words these days, people use it however they feel like.

Originally Posted By bigdik3006:
Yes, monolithic means a one piece design. The other poster said that the barrel locks up akin to a monolithic upper, and unlike a traditional barrel nut that doubles as a mounting surface. No one said its a monolithic upper. The definition then doesnt matter, because no one is claiming it fits that. You claimed its like a traditional barrel nut arrangement, and thats simply incorrect.

The argument can surely be made that its still a standard barrel extension held on by a nut, and not something radically different like the MRP system. I dont find that to be detractor though personally

Originally Posted By airgunner:

From what I can tell, it is a traditional barrel/nut arrangement. The difference apparently is the rail mounts to the receiver ext. instead of the barrel nut. Big whoop AFAIC. I'm not saying its a bad design, I'm just not convinced its anything all that special either? Different but not necessarily better way to skin a cat. Either way I'm not the one that introduced the term "monolithic" into this thread or asked to compare it to other "similar" designs.

Originally Posted By airgunner:

From what I can tell, it is a traditional barrel/nut arrangement. The difference apparently is the rail mounts to the receiver ext. instead of the barrel nut. Big whoop AFAIC. I'm not saying its a bad design, I'm just not convinced its anything all that special either? Different but not necessarily better way to skin a cat. Either way I'm not the one that introduced the term "monolithic" into this thread or asked to compare it to other "similar" designs.

Originally Posted By airgunner:

Thank you for granting me the permission not to like it and instructing me on what is or isn't "the move" lol


Would you look at that, you found an actual pic of a 1 in a million failure and on a full auto lower nonetheless (I'm assuming as I believe I see the 3rd pin above the "fire" markings?). It very well may be the weakest point but let's be real, its just not something the average semi auto range warrior or internet commando needs to worry about but if it makes you feel better then what the hell I guess?

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze to me but to each their own. And that's all I got to say about that....

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
here we go with the books  you don't have argue against everyone and make it a book..

Originally Posted By oxford411:


Now you are just trolling in this thread.  This response was un-warranted.  Add something useful or move on.

Originally Posted By MGYSGT8541:
here we go with the books  you don't have argue against everyone and make it a book..   you can't ever acknowledge that maybe someone has points.  It's sucks when people can't even agree on some things.

Originally Posted By airgunner:

Thank you for granting me the permission not to like it and instructing me on what is or isn't "the move" lol

Originally Posted By Underdog1159:
Atlantic firearms has the M5 carbine for $1699 in stock if anyone is interested.