Posted: 5/13/2011 4:36:07 PM EDT
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Pardon my rant but I'm pretty disappointed.
3/31 I ordered a 6.5 Grendel 24" barrel, upper receiver and some other small parts including some ammo. Boo Yah - basically my dream rifle with every part exactly what I wanted with few expenses spared, but don't tell my wife. 4/4 I get an email saying that I have to complete the ammo purchase document or my order will be canceled. OK not a problem done within the hour. Faxed back to the number. Then nothing....... 4/5 I send an email asking if everything is ok my order and Jen replies "That order should ship this month." HUH????? Come to find out that they are "waiting on the barrels" which they didn't note on the website or in my order confirmation. OK well I can wait. So at the end of April which was the end of "this month" I give them a call. I forgot to get the name of the woman that I spoke with but I inquired about the status of my order. Now we all have bad days but being rude to a customer is not the way that I want to be treated. I was told that the barrels arrived the Friday before and they were being inspected. They would ship in the order that the orders were received. "Is there anything else I can do for you' with TONS of attitude. It's now 5/13. NOTHING. No emails, calls. Nothing. This sure has taken the shine off of this "dream" rifle. Is this normal for this company? What an awful first order. Rob |
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Rob,
We've all had the frustration of waiting for a special order rifle. That said, I waited 13 months for a rifle from another company, and I've waited as long as 5 years for other firearm custom orders. A good friend just recieved his Shrike after something like 8+ years, AFTER having made a $1000 down payment back then! AA is a relatively small company, and they don't have a system that allows instant updates on availability of parts. Its entirely likely that whoever you spoke with had little or no idea what parts were actually in stock on the assembly floor. I've never had the experience you did in regards to someone being unfriendly or curt on the phone, so that is a new one to me. I'm sure that AA will look into it, since Bill Alexander takes phone customer service very seriously. As for the inspection process, it takes some time. Bill Alexander is very particular about approving items, and barrels get a very close look before being assembled. Please remember, too, that NRA was two weekends ago, and that much of April was spent preparing for that and making sure that displays, rifles, etc. were appropriately ready. AA continues to grow, as well, and I know that they are adding some front office and manufacturing staff, so while they get up to speed, it takes extra time for everything. Please be patient, and you will be very satisfied in the long run! |
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Copied from Satern's site.
*Important Notice* Satern received the 60 day notification on April 1st, 2011 from Alexander Arms, that our licensing agreement which we signed January 5, 2010 (which was for 10 years) will be terminated as of May 30th, 2011. This was through no fault of our own. Terms of the new agreement offered were different and as of today we have decided not to sign that agreement. So after an almost 5 year run we will no longer be manufacturing Grendel(R) and/or Beowulf(R) cut rifled barrels. According to our existing agreement, Satern Custom Machining, Inc. has until May 30th, 2011 to accept orders for existing cut rifled Grendel(R) barrels. We have every intention of finishing our existing orders and all orders placed (within reason and at our discretion) on or before May 30th, 2011. Feel free to call or email with your barrel requests. If it fits within the parameters of our remaining ability to manufacture and deliver your order we will certainly accommodate that. We would like to express our appreciation to our Grendel(R) and Beowulf(R) customers. It has been a pleasure to serve you for five years. Our policy has always been diversification. We will continue to manufacture superb cut rifled barrels in a variety of calibers and configurations. We look forward to continuing to meet your cut rifled barrel needs. Respectfully, Deb and Steve Satern FYI: Liberty Barrels, Inc. also has declined to sign the new licensing agreement presented by Alexander Arms. Eric, Liberty's President, has assured me that I will have some great deals on Beowulf(R) and Grendel(R) button rifled barrels to offer you! |
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Well that is an interesting turn of events.
I'll add that I sent an email to Jen at Alexander Arms and it was returned to me today as undeliverable: Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: [email protected] Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.0.0 <[email protected]>... Unknown User (state 14). I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.... |
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Pixrob,
Email is the poorest choice to contact AA. Please call and speak with Melissa directly. Originally Posted By pixrob:
Well that is an interesting turn of events. I'll add that I sent an email to Jen at Alexander Arms and it was returned to me today as undeliverable: Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: [email protected] Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.0.0 <[email protected]>... Unknown User (state 14). I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.... |
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Originally Posted By GrendelAA:
Pixrob, Email is the poorest choice to contact AA. Please call and speak with Melissa directly. Originally Posted By pixrob:
Well that is an interesting turn of events. I'll add that I sent an email to Jen at Alexander Arms and it was returned to me today as undeliverable: Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: [email protected] Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.0.0 <[email protected]>... Unknown User (state 14). I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling here.... Pix, If I wanted a barrel, I'd speak with Woody at LW. You can specify what you want and he can produce it. If you want a cheap, yet quality barrell, speak with Satern. They may not have the profile that you need. But, they are closing out barrels. Phil |
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AA enjoyed a good relationship with Satern barrels, but the vast majority of Grendels built over the past 5 years have been built with other barrels.
In reality, only a very small percentage of Grendel buyers chose the more expensive barrels. We still have plenty of barrels, and don't expect any great problems in continuing to supply quality rifles to our customers. |
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Originally Posted By BRONZ:
AA better get in front of this barrel thing before it gets to big. Posted my own question also. The barrel issue is simply a mystery that exists in the minds of those who wish to create problems and troll substandard rip off Grendel barrels with incorrect chamber geometries. We have for over two years now used three barrel makers for our high end units. With two cut rifle types at our disposal there will not be any interruption in supply and we are, with current projects on the boards, developing further barrel products. Indeed we should be able to speed deliveries of many of the products that use this type of barrel. Now the 17 HMR is in delivery stage and unit production is running through the shop we have time to examine our overall methodology for barrel production. Not least we are looking to our existing in house ability and the extension of this, especially as we service larger requirements. |
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Originally Posted By AlexanderArms:
Originally Posted By BRONZ:
AA better get in front of this barrel thing before it gets to big. Posted my own question also. The barrel issue is simply a mystery that exists in the minds of those who wish to create problems and troll substandard rip off Grendel barrels with incorrect chamber geometries. We have for over two years now used three barrel makers for our high end units. With two cut rifle types at our disposal there will not be any interruption in supply and we are, with current projects on the boards, developing further barrel products. Indeed we should be able to speed deliveries of many of the products that use this type of barrel. Now the 17 HMR is in delivery stage and unit production is running through the shop we have time to examine our overall methodology for barrel production. Not least we are looking to our existing in house ability and the extension of this, especially as we service larger requirements. I'm sorry but I disagree. I have had a barrel on order with your company for almost two months. I ordered from your company and it is your problem. |
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I'm sorry but I disagree. I have had a barrel on order with your company for almost two months. I ordered from your company and it is your problem.
Pixrob, the above comment was not directed at you, although, unfortunately, it appears that way. You barrel issue is indeed our problem, and I'm hopeful that we have it worked out. In answer to your question above, I have been retained by AA to help moderate this board, which is my only direct AA affiliation. |
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Originally Posted By GrendelAA:
Originally Posted By BRONZ:
AA better get in front of this barrel thing before it gets to big. Posted my own question also. Bronz, unfortunately, I can't figure out where the question is, can you point me to it? I see the ghost of arfcom strikes again. I posted my own question: "Who is your High End Barrel maker now." The post was there yesterday but I see its gone now. Being a mod in another section I can find out where it went. |
BRONZ
You never have trouble if you are prepared for it. T. Roosevelt
You never have trouble if you are prepared for it. T. Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By GrendelAA:
I'm sorry but I disagree. I have had a barrel on order with your company for almost two months. I ordered from your company and it is your problem.
Pixrob, the above comment was not directed at you, although, unfortunately, it appears that way. You barrel issue is indeed our problem, and I'm hopeful that we have it worked out. In answer to your question above, I have been retained by AA to help moderate this board, which is my only direct AA affiliation. Thanks for your answer. I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass but my put yourself in my shoes. Why would I ever order from AA again? Every customer is a completely precious commodity. Customers are willing to forgive but not be shut out without any updates. Fix this problem quickly (maybe throw in a hat or shirt for good cheer), provide a quality product and I will sing the praises. Let me sit with nothing and I'll tell the world. It really is that simple. |
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I've a similar experience. Order placed 3-15-2011 for ITEM #01 B-GRE18PACK Grendel® 18" button rifled barrel and bolt $320.00 + upper, mags, flash hider. I was told that the order would be delivered ~4-7 weeks. 4-18 I sent another email inquiring about the status of my order and was told that it would be another 4-6 weeks. I'm really hoping that it will be here soon and that your order will come through as well.
pixrob, if Susan says your order is the oldest she's seen then that leaves me a bit concerned. |
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Originally Posted By jsr75:
I've a similar experience. Order placed 3-15-2011 for ITEM #01 B-GRE18PACK Grendel® 18" button rifled barrel and bolt $320.00 + upper, mags, flash hider. I was told that the order would be delivered ~4-7 weeks. 4-18 I sent another email inquiring about the status of my order and was told that it would be another 4-6 weeks. I'm really hoping that it will be here soon and that your order will come through as well. pixrob, if Susan says your order is the oldest she's seen then that leaves me a bit concerned. Sounds like we have just about the same order except I got the 24" barrel. |
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And another update!
I called this morning to speak with Melissa (who didn't return my email from last week) for an update. The story is now they are out of bolts with no idea of when they will arrive. She told me that she would call the company when they woke up. But wait, my order was delayed because of not having barrels. If you sell one bolt with one barrel - shouldn't you always keep one of each. Melissa is not the friendliest person when it comes to customer service and if I didn't want the damn barrel, I would have canceled the order today. I'm sick of this.....and I'M SUPPOSED TO CALL BACK ON WEDNESDAY? |
| This all brings back terrible memories. I went through almost the exact same scenario. Your order will ship in 2-3 weeks,5 weeks later- no wait.....we're out of bolts.....no idea how long now......8 weeks out-.now no barrels......10 weeks-ok bolts are in but had to send them out for coating....13 weeks-.alright barrel is in but still no bolts.......15 weeks-finally! barrel and bolt are ready but wait.......sorry the billet uppers are out of stock now and by the way, that WPI brake you ordered with everything else....well they are out for coating. You get the picture. AA taught me patience, thats for sure. I will say one thing though. After all the BS and waiting and bitchin and complaining, it was well worth it. DEEP CLEANSING BREATH!! |
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AA is a small company, with limited resources when it comes to maintaining stock on hand. We simply can't have enough of everything, all the time, to fill every potential order. I have often heard Bill Alexander lament that at times he feels like he runs a shop for spare parts, not an arms manufacturing company, since he has to order lots of parts that might not be used for months and months, only to find essential parts backordered.
The "no barrel" then "no bolt" issues go hand in hand. If the barrel isn't available currently, it makes no sense to set aside bolts and not build uppers and rifles while waiting for more barrels that fit the ordered criteria. Then, because the bolts are relatively unique, and not an off the shelf item, building rifles creates a shortage of that item. Because AA is small, our orders may get stuck behind bigger orders with the bolt manufacturers, so then AA gets stuck waiting just like their customers. AA is in business to make money, and would love to ship out everything the day it is ordered. Sitting on inventory costs too much money! BUT...it can't always happen that way, and we are at the mercy of the suppliers. It's one reason AA wants to bring barrel manufacturing closer, so that these issues don't happen. We heartily apologize for the delay, all we can promise is that if you are patient we'll do everything in our power to supply what you want, and to guarantee it will perform as expected when you do get it. |
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Originally Posted By pixrob:
And another update! I called this morning to speak with Melissa (who didn't return my email from last week) for an update. The story is now they are out of bolts with no idea of when they will arrive. She told me that she would call the company when they woke up. But wait, my order was delayed because of not having barrels. If you sell one bolt with one barrel - shouldn't you always keep one of each. Melissa is not the friendliest person when it comes to customer service and if I didn't want the damn barrel, I would have canceled the order today. I'm sick of this.....and I'M SUPPOSED TO CALL BACK ON WEDNESDAY? Good luck. I don't have that kind of patience and just sent Jen an email to cancel my order. What a shame. |
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Originally Posted By jsr75:
Originally Posted By pixrob:
And another update! I called this morning to speak with Melissa (who didn't return my email from last week) for an update. The story is now they are out of bolts with no idea of when they will arrive. She told me that she would call the company when they woke up. But wait, my order was delayed because of not having barrels. If you sell one bolt with one barrel - shouldn't you always keep one of each. Melissa is not the friendliest person when it comes to customer service and if I didn't want the damn barrel, I would have canceled the order today. I'm sick of this.....and I'M SUPPOSED TO CALL BACK ON WEDNESDAY? Good luck. I don't have that kind of patience and just sent Jen an email to cancel my order. What a shame. Well Jen doesn't work there anymore so I'm sure your email will be returned.... My question is this. Does Bill Alexander really care about customer service? Do posts like these about his company NOT bother him? You have so much good reputation that you end up destroying by not delivering the goods. How come this is so difficult? If you can't deliver in 2 months DON'T take my order!!!!! |
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We ship orders on chronological order but your order time does seem rather old. As I mentioned in the PM I sent you if you will let me know your name and order number I will check that this has not fallen through the cracks and expedite the materials. I do not have this information so can do little.
We run and ship product all the time and allocate the relevent parts to assemblies as they are scheduled. We may be waiting on bolts to match with the barrel type you ordered. We run through over 500 a month so sometimes we do get in a bind. If you will contact me today at the office and ask for Bill then I will try and resolve this. |
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Originally Posted By pixrob:
Good news!!! I got an email back from Bill Alexander and my order will ship next week. If not, he'll call me himself. The guy (or girl) at the top, always cares.... Keep you posted but I'm excited! Rob UPS Shipper number by email. Can't WAIT to put this bad boy together & post photos. |
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The rifle is 100% fantastic and 100% non-operational.
100% non-operational??? Why? I purchased the Grendel Upper receiver, 24" barrel & bolt, A2 Flash hider(although I would prefer a crowned muzzle but no big deal), low profile gas block, gas tube and a magazine. But no where did it say that I wouldn't get the gas block pin!!!! It's the pin that retains the gas tube in the gas block. $0.30 at Del-Ton or included with Spike's low profile gas block that looks almost identical for less $. I thought I had missed it! I looked through every package, zip-loc, packaging peanut, inspected the tape that wrapped all the parts, crawled around on the floor looking for the pin to no avail. I sent an email asking if I had missed the pin to Susan (at Alexandar) who responded "No…you are not missing the pin. We actually don’t sell that. I checked and Brownells is the suggested supplier. Thanks!" I responded, "Seriously???? You sell the block and the tube but never say that the pin isn't included? That is ridiculous! Can you give me the dimensions of the pin?" And the final reply from Susan, "I’m sorry but we simply do not sell the small parts you are seeking. You simply need a gas tube roll pin from DPMS or Brownells or Bushmaster, etc. " I had the lower Spikes receiver, Spike's Bolt Carrier, Spikes Enhanced LPK, Magpul Stock, Harris Bipod, Troy Extreme Battle Rail, BCM Gunfighter charging handle, Burris PEPR Scope Mount(hand lapped with a Sinclair 30mm mount lapping tool, Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 PA BDC scope - in my mind, that's a pretty special rifle. Now I have to place another order with another company to buy a THIRTY CENT PIN?????? Of course with shipping, it'll cost $5-8. And you say that I'm going to get mauled on line? So if a friend of mine asks me about Alexander Arms, what would you want me to say???? |
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Here's the build.
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/Rob_Gallagher/IMG_4123.jpg Note empty hole where missing pin http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/Rob_Gallagher/IMG_4124.jpg Love the spider http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/Rob_Gallagher/IMG_4125.jpg More spiders..... http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n581/Rob_Gallagher/IMG_4126.jpg |
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Nicely done. BUT....why not simply stop at the hardware store or local machine shop and pick one up? Roll pins are roll pins, so far as I know.
Any decent hardware store or machine shop will sell them by the box or individually. I wasn't aware that the block came without the pin, but NOTHING bought for an AR surprises me. I've bought lots of stuff that didn't come with the needed pins, springs, etc. When I asked, I was told that even though lots of people are building their own, the industry still hasn't realized that, and they generally think along the lines of, "anyone building an AR must be a gunsmith, so they buy this stuff by the box/case, so we don't supply all the little pins, springs, pieces etc. with the item." It's probably time for anyone selling parts to recognize that, and sell it with all the pieces needed to complete assembly. That said, I just called a couple friends that build AR's, and they buy lots of parts, and they tell me that none of the gas blocks they buy come with roll pins, either. Go figure! Bill 
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When I built mine, I shot the front takedown pin detent across my basement. Absolutely no chance of ever finding it again.
I knew I should have done it inside a ziploc bag. I knew I should have done it in a clean area where I could find it if I lost it. I knew I should have used the delrin drive pin I had laying there two feet away. But I was excided, tried to do it fast, and ended up losing the part because of it. A local store charged me almost $2 for the replacement of a forty cent part. Oh well. Live and learn. Don't spaz. Stop by the hardware store on your way home today and get a 5/64" x 1/2" roll pin. There's nothing special, it just retains the gas tube. In fact, you can fire it just fine without the pin. The impulse pushes the tube/block forward, so the only thing the pin does is keep the tube from falling out of the block when the bolt is to the rear. There's no force on it at all. Heck, some duct tape would work, though it wouldn't be particularly elegant. And here's another free lesson. When you build a rifle, check EVERYTHING. Do not assume that just because it came from the factory a certain way that it's correct or within spec. Components never get a final function test like complete rifles do. You can't assume anything. For another rifle, I bought a barrel from Sabre. It came with the barrel nut, front handguard clip, and (clamp-on YHM) gas block installed. I simply assumed that the torque for the gas block screws was correct. It was not. It was only installed temporarily to hold everything together. The first two shots cycled, and then the gas block got kicked out of position. So I'm at the range, 90 minutes away from my tools, and the gas block is wiggling all over the place. Oh well. I practiced with a single-shot rifle that day. Got home later, cleaned it up, and torqued the gas block down properly with red loctite. That rifle has been 100% since and otherwise. So take it easy. Everyone has their problems, and most of them have simple, if inconvenient, solutions. It's just a hobby. ETA: Oh, and good looking rifle. I hope it's a good shooter for you. |