Posted: 8/19/2001 10:13:04 PM EDT
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Hi, there. I'm kind of new to AR15s, but lately I've had the desire to buy one. At a gunshow this weekend, I saw a really cool one. I am pretty ignorant to AR15s and especially M4s so don't mind me if I mess up the nomenclature. It was a "Colt Pre-Ban M4 Upper." There were a few differences from the M4 I seen in the "SOPMOD M4 accessory kit" picture floating around the internet. First, it had a four pronged flash suppressor but the prongs were spiraled (unlike the "birdcage" flash suppressors). Secondly, it had a front sight that would fold down to be flush with the barrel. It was sitting on top of what the dealer said was a "Green Label" Pre-Ban Lower with an original retractable stock. It also came with a pre-ban HBAR upper and a bunch of M4 accessories. He was asking $4800. I really liked this gun, but I want to see if any of you guys could tell me more about it. First of all, is this a remotely fair price for this gun? Secondly, anyone have an idea what kind of gun I was looking at. I would appreciate any information at all. Thanks, --Erich |
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Seems about 3 times too high to me, depending on the accessories. Since this configuration NEVER came from colt as all factory before the ban, you could just as easily create your own by buying a pre-ban green label lower (with telestock) for $800 to $1000, and a nice all-colt M4 upper for about the same. The most authentic version of an m4-gery would be with a Colt flat-top '4' marked M4 upper with correct, M4 14.5" barrel and permanently attached phantom, vortex or long-style A2 flash suppressor (to bring the barrel up to 16" overall for legality). The flash suppressor you describe is a smith enterprises "vortex" and is probably the most effective flash suppressor out there. With a correct 14.5" military M4 barrel, you need a vortex or phantom, or special extended A2 style flash suppressor permanently attached to bring the barrel length up to 16", and avoid having to pay the $200 NFA tax for a short barrel rifle (along with a lot more paperwork and hassles in purchasing said weapon). |
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Erich, It also sounds like the M4 had the front sight replaced. Possibly with a "GGG" fold down sight. These can be folded down so as not to obstruct the field of view if you have optics mounted on the flattop. Unless the lower is a 6520 Gov. Carbine I wouldn't imagine the package price to exceed $2000. Sounds like the seller was hoping to do some serious gouging. HTH Michael NRA, GOA, HRA, JPFO, |
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Erich, Congrats on your demonstration of asking folks here at AR15.com. You will save lots of money and aggravation. Let me give you my take on this deal. First of all, the other responses are right on target. The cost of a preban lower is between $800-$1000;however, you can get a preban lower mfg after the one you were looking at. That one was a green label meaning it has a large hole upper. Mil spec is smaller. You can find a preban blue label (like mine) that has the small hole lower with raised mag fence for which you can install a detent spring allowing you to throw away the screw pivot pin and go with true mil spec type. That said, lets proceed to the M4 upper. You have several choices here. One, you could go with a Colt, which will be stamped M4 on upper receiver. Or bushmaster is fine too. However, Colt does have current military contract. You can go A2 style where the handle and sights are part of the upper receiver or flat top version where you can obtain a detachable handle if you desire. Once you decide on type of upper receiver, then you have to decide whether or not to go 16" or 14.5" You can put any type of flash suppressor on 16";however, if you go with a 14.5" you must decide on either a Vortex flash suppressor, Phantom type flash suppressor or Kurt Wala's A2 style. Anyone of these permanent attached will be fine for BATF purposes. Kurt Wala is gunsmith under industry forum at the bottom. You must have the flash suppressors put on a specific way to stay out of jail. The uppers above can be had for between $500-$800. The respondent was right about that flip down front site. You can buy these for around $100-$150 depending on brand. Some need to be factory installed such as GG&G. Bushmaster carrier them too. The HBAR upper with bolt carrier and charging handle can be found for $400 on this board. I would guess the value of that stuff to be around $2200 at best. Good luck Erich and welcome to AR15.com Ralph |
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Hey guys heres a website to kinda give ya an idea of what "might" to expect to pay for a preban AR. Most of you may have seen this site. Some of the newer people may not. Here it is.......www.prebanarms.com I would make it a link but dont know how. Have fun and good luck. |
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I bought a Blue Label pre-ban for $1100. Got rid of the crappy screw they use for a pivot pin and got the mil-spec parts. I also did this with my MT6730 I bought a few months back. It was drilled for the spring and detent as well. The real M4 uppers also have the tactical sling swivel and the double heat shield hand guards. The bushmaster uppers don't have either one of these things. M4 Colt uppers are $700. If you find a real one cheaper, you better get froggy. |