Official .260 tOBR Thread-Pics/Range/Loads/Updated Thread Index (Page 54 of 188)
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Originally Posted By rugerdog:
In the battle between BC and velocity I wonder where these would stack up. I do like more velocity and shorter flight times. Q - "If different bullets are provided at the same drag & speed, bullet weight difference(or anything else) means nothing further to wind drift." A - "Not so. Take two bullets of different weights but with a shared form factor in a calibre, ie they exhibit the same drag relationship to the G-whatever reference projectile. Then give them equivalent MVs. And how do we know what they are? They're MVs that produce the same ME values. To take an FTR example comparing the 155.5gn Berger .308 to a 200gn model. If the 155.5's MV is 3,100 fps MV that's 3,319 ft/lb ME. To achieve that same ME with the 200gn model, the MV is 2,733.5 fps and so that's the ballistic equivalent and is normally achievable within the same pressures, changing powder grades as needed. Then run the pair through a ballistics program. You'll find the heavier bullet outperforms the lighter one in terms of wind drift. If you want to try it for yourself and we stick to 30-cal models, Berger's 175gn OTM Tactical and Sierra's 210gn MK have near identical form factor values (1.002 v 1.000), ie in ballistic / drag terms they match the G7 reference. Let's give the 175 an MV of 2,800 fps which is 3,047 ft/lb ME. The 210 needs an MV of 2,556 fps to match that. Their G7 BCs are 0.263 and 0.316 respectively. (Form factor and BC values from Bryan Litz's Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets third edition.) The 0.263 BC 175 @ 2,800 fps MV moves 88.12 inches in the classic 10 mph crosswind at 1,000 yards. The 0.316 BC 210 @ 2,556 fps MV moves 78.95 inches, a 10% reduction. Another gain for the heavier model is terminal velocity. The 210 is calculated to have a retained velocity of 1,343 fps at 1,000 yards against the 175's 1,308, so in this 308 Win type example, the 210 just stays above transonic speeds while the 175 slips into them. On trajectory shape, the 175 shoots a bit flatter with an MRT of ~118 inches against ~125 for the 210. The latter will also produce significantly more torque and recoil in any given weight rifle. As the heavier' model's downsides are more recoil and a higher trajectory, tactical competitors and varmints shooter might prefer lighter bullets and accept a bit more wind drift, while the BR and prone competitor in known-distance shooting will go for less windage every time. I was surprised the first time I did this using a couple of different weight thirties with near identical Litz G7 form factors and redid the sums several times convinced I had to be doing something wrong. 'Common sense' says that if the drag curve based form factors are the same and MVs are equivalent, then the bullets should behave in the wind the same way at say 1,000 yards. I eventually contacted Bryan who confirmed my findings - the heavier model of a pair with identical drag factors always outperforms the lighter in this (wind) respect." |
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I guess I am thinking that since length is limited by the mags in these guns that a person may be able to surpass the heavy projo performance using higher velocity with a shorter projo loaded long. More room for powder. There has to be a cross over point somewhere.
All of this is just tinkering anyhow. My 130 TMK load is exceptionally accurate out of my rifle. Boringly so. If we were talking bolt guns this would not be a question I don’t think. |
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Originally Posted By rugerdog:
I guess I am thinking that since length is limited by the mags in these guns that a person may be able to surpass the heavy projo performance using higher velocity with a shorter projo loaded long. More room for powder. There has to be a cross over point somewhere. All of this is just tinkering anyhow. My 130 TMK load is exceptionally accurate out of my rifle. Boringly so. If we were talking bolt guns this would not be a question I don’t think. ETA - Quick Load is giving me this for the 107 SMK: 22" barrel 45g of H4350 loaded to 2.800 104.2% of case volume 2957fps 54,030psi, which is under max. ETA II - Same load at 100.1% filled gives 2834fps at 47,444psi. |
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Today's report is an update on the HVAC situation at the ranch; we finally have heat and none too soon since it's now sleeting outside. A two-man crew handled the removal of the old HVAC system and install of the new system in 6.5hrs. As you may recall, we had an extended power outage and when power came back on, the furnace wouldn't operate; I had a frozen inducer motor and of course, the part is no longer made. A HVAC friend found one on-line for $1700 but since I was expecting $300, there was no way I was putting a $1700 part into a 13 year old system. Anyways, I replaced the American Standard 90% efficiency unit (natural gas) and 12 SEER A/C with a Trane 95% and 14 SEER system. The gas fireplace served as the heating system while we waited for the diagnoses and to get on the schedule. Fans moved the heat through the house, well, sort of. 
 The old system: 
Interesting find in the outer control area of the A/C unit, surprised they didn't chew through the wiring: 
What 13 years does to a coil, especially one with dis-similar metals: 
The new coil is all aluminum so maybe the two metal solution was causing some warranty issues? Or it's easier and cheaper to use all aluminum? 
The new stuff: 
All done and it is nice to have heat again. 
Hopefully this inducer motor lasts longer.
The old unit was 410a, as is the new unit. I thought the old system was R22, but nope, it was the new stuff. They keep the same copper between the units, using a vacuum running for about 30 minutes to ensure the lines are flushed. Techs were good, did quality work and they even neatened up some of the wiring and PVC previously installed. They cleaned up the entire site, swept the floor and were all around decent guys. I negotiated some discounts (not too easy up in this area) and got another 4% off for cash. Oh, and they never once asked about the arsenal or ammo fort. 
I may divert from daily updates as I really do need to hunker down and find a job! |
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| I just did a preventative replacement of my inductor motors (or some kind of motor at least) on both my heaters (upstairs/downstairs), units are about 10 years old. Guy said it should buy me a few more years before I have to replace the whole thing. He came while my brass was tumbling and didn't bat an eye. Lives out in the farmland and shoots on his neighbors property (I didn't even get an invite tho, what a jerk). |
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Originally Posted By bfk4lyfe:
I just did a preventative replacement of my inductor motors (or some kind of motor at least) on both my heaters (upstairs/downstairs), units are about 10 years old. Guy said it should buy me a few more years before I have to replace the whole thing. He came while my brass was tumbling and didn't bat an eye. Lives out in the farmland and shoots on his neighbors property (I didn't even get an invite tho, what a jerk). As to shooting on the land, why would he give up a good thing so easily?
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Congrats on the new heater! FYI: It's 70's here
I'll have a range report up in a while. Think I got a sun burn! |
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Today I wanted to get the scope specifically zero'd with the new Larue brake and Tranquilo. On the last outing I didn't make any scope adjustments. I also wanted to try and outshoot the shootist.
These 1st 6 targets I had the scope set to about 15x power for some reason. 1st target I dialed down 1 MOA and .2 right 2nd target I dialed down 1.5 MOA and .8 left. 3rd target I stayed at 1.5 down and went back to 0 for windage. 4th target I zero'd out the scope turrets and set the zero stop. 5th and 6th targets were just practice. I went to fast on the 6th one. 
I then walked to the target to place the Larue test targets.Walked back and put the scope on 25x and tried to do as good as target 3 posted above. Not sure what happened but they all pretty much suck! I'll try again some other day. Test targets 2 & 4 are decent but I know I can do better. 
View to & from the targets. Steel target was for a lever action i was dialing in: 
Truck loaded up: 
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Today I wanted to get the scope specifically zero'd with the new Larue brake and Tranquilo. On the last outing I didn't make any scope adjustments. I also wanted to try and outshoot the shootist. These 1st 6 targets I had the scope set to about 15x power for some reason. 1st target I dialed down 1 MOA and .2 right 2nd target I dialed down 1.5 MOA and .8 left. 3rd target I stayed at 1.5 down and went back to 0 for windage. 4th target I zero'd out the scope turrets and set the zero stop. 5th and 6th targets were just practice. I went to fast on the 6th one. https://i.imgur.com/saaqQ1g.jpg I then walked to the target to place the Larue test targets.Walked back and put the scope on 25x and tried to do as good as target 3 posted above. Not sure what happened but they all pretty much suck! I'll try again some other day. Test targets 2 & 4 are decent but I know I can do better. https://i.imgur.com/zpZ0qMN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/85LJ1Yj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ICHZM55.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NV58qLi.jpg View to & from the targets. Steel target was for a lever action i was dialing in: https://i.imgur.com/rKdcEmu.jpg https://i.imgur.com/H9Odaqk.jpg Truck loaded up: https://i.imgur.com/KWUY445.jpg Gassers seem to be much less forgiving to any change in position, muscling the weapon, etc. |
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I think it is the reticle movement at the higher power that is distracting. You see way more movement and it throws you off your game.
I always shoot better when I back off the power a bunch. Try from 10 to 18, you will find the sweet spot in there where you work best. Dune we need to get out and shoot. I might be upgrading glass here shortly but its a surprise. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I think it is the reticle movement at the higher power that is distracting. You see way more movement and it throws you off your game. I always shoot better when I back off the power a bunch. Try from 10 to 18, you will find the sweet spot in there where you work best. Dune we need to get out and shoot. I might be upgrading glass here shortly but its a surprise. I'm game to shoot almost anytime but I'm low on ammo at the moment with more on the way. Really need to dive into the reloading aspect of this rifle. I have everything I need and pretty sure I have the right neck bushing based on D3's measurement recommendations. .289 IIRC. For sure need more practice at 1K yards, my hits at that distance are inconsistent. I found a spot west of the white tanks that is easy to drive to each end and is 930 yards. |
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Sometimes the subtentions are too thick and cause some issues. While my Vortex 5-20x50 looked really good, I could notice the thinner subtentions on the 4.5-27. It may be grasping, but I found it easier to shoot. I also shoot on the highest power. It reveals areas for improvement in your position, hold, squeeze and follow through that could be helpful. As for distance, try shooting at 300 and then 600 until it becomes boring. Validate your DOPE and then take it to 800. Work your fundamentals and then head to 1,000. At least someone in this thread is out shooting. |
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
For sure saw more movement at full power! I always shoot at full power regardless of distance. I dialed back to find this target and never dialed up until the test targets. I'm game to shoot almost anytime but I'm low on ammo at the moment with more on the way. Really need to dive into the reloading aspect of this rifle. I have everything I need and pretty sure I have the right neck bushing based on D3's measurement recommendations. .289 IIRC. For sure need more practice at 1K yards, my hits at that distance are inconsistent. I found a spot west of the white tanks that is easy to drive to each end and is 930 yards. I'm about to ramp full bore into loading so I will share what I do. I'll be using a Dillon 650. 1k yards everything goes out the window it seems and the wind has taken over. Wind reading is an art. I'm at about 1100 rounds, and have 400 factory Hornady and gorilla left. So I have some brass to start with. I'm super tempted to move to alpha srp |
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'Try shooting a group at each power and see what you get?'
I'm surprised scopes work half as well as they do. |
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Today is a short update showing some arrivals to the homestead, some of which will aid in the quest for precision.
The first picture includes a set of Redding Competition Dies for the .260. Bullets.com was going out-of-business and I couldn't pass up the great price for a superior set of dies. This gives me 3-4 sets of Whiddens and these Reddings, so I'll be able to set up one die for each bullet and hopefully minimize futzing with adjustments per load. I also found a RCBS precision MIC for the .260 that is just another way to determine headspace and distance to the lands. It was cheap enough so I bought it to give it a try. Also included in this picture is an interesting find on the EE, TiN coated UU stuff, a LaRue UU BCG and a MBT. I just couldn't pass up the bling! 
Next, the upright for the hydro press arrived and I was finally able (after the power and HVAC fiasco) to at least put it together. My ASTM certified calibration weight also arrived so I can ensure the FX-120 calibrates so I can see just how good the combo works. 
Next is a shipment of legacy Precision Shooter Magazines. I luv finding stuff like this and to read and review them to see what is old may be new again or how we've progressed over time. 
Lastly is food! BajaGringo was nice enough to send me two loads of hand-made, authentic Mexican tortillas! I certainly appreciate the gesture. 
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Freeze the ones you are not going to eat within a week, they will go bad fast. The good fresh ones always do. |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
I am sorry to hear that. I hope those bad guys get worse than they deserve. |
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
D3-sorry to hear that! Hope he recovers quickly. |
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Tried again today to outshoot the shootist.
Shot the top 2 first then the Larue targets. Either the groups are opening up or the Larue targets are intimidating. Those targets are pretty scary! 
Sighted this in. Larue 14.5" barrel on an SBR lower. Will see how it groups once I get a bi-pod on it. 
Also sighted in this 'lil 22 WMR. 
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Tried again today to outshoot the shootist. Shot the top 2 first then the Larue targets. Either the groups are opening up or the Larue targets are intimidating. Those targets are pretty scary! https://i.imgur.com/zI4J9OR.jpg Sighted this in. Larue 14.5" barrel on an SBR lower. Will see how it groups once I get a bi-pod on it. https://i.imgur.com/4alCjSa.jpg Also sighted in this 'lil 22 WMR. https://i.imgur.com/6DGju8h.jpg 
That WMR looks nice! A day out shooting three different beauties, I can't wait till the weather breaks here. |
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A small update for today. I received my 50g ASTM class calibrated weight so it's time to calibrate the FX-120i.
I powered up the scale and let it sit the requisite 30 minutes. I also have two GemPro 250s I fired up to see how they compared. I calibrated the GemPros using their 20g weights (I'm not certain what standard they use for their weights so I don't know the acceptable variance). Then I weighed the 50g calibrated weight and received the shown readings: 
I'm not worried about the variation in each of the GemPros as they are consistent and repeatable. Once calibrated, each time I weigh 42.2 grains, I'll get 42.2 grains. I can also track and drift using the pan's weight, which is 153grs. As long as it goes to -153 each time I remove it, I know I'm still good-to-go. While the scale was warming up, I adjusted the level, which was very sensitive. It took me a bit to get it centered as each leg movement induced a change that took about a 15-30 seconds to settle.  I used the external calibration mode and the 50g weight to calibrate the unit. It was spot on, but it waivered just a bit between 00 and 01. 
I suspected it could be an air current as I had two of the four breeze shields off; one in front so I can remove the pan and one of the side for the trickler. I didn't want to drill a hole on the plastic window, so I decided to use a LaRue card stock target; it's stiff but flexible. I traced it, cut it out and then added a small hole for the trickler tube. All done! 
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| Excellent! How did those ABMs shoot? |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
Excellent! How did those ABMs shoot? Originally Posted By Defender3:
Excellent! How did those ABMs shoot? |
I guess my rate of fire was too much. Can’t wait to get this off and see what the cam looks like  Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
A small update for today. I received my 50g ASTM class calibrated weight so it's time to calibrate the FX-120i. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6982-1_JPG-474680.jpg I powered up the scale and let it sit the requisite 30 minutes. I also have two GemPro 250s I fired up to see how they compared. I calibrated the GemPros using their 20g weights (I'm not certain what standard they use for their weights so I don't know the acceptable variance). Then I weighed the 50g calibrated weight and received the shown readings: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6984-1_JPG-475587.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6988-1_JPG-475588.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6989-1_JPG-475589.jpg I'm not worried about the variation in each of the GemPros as they are consistent and repeatable. Once calibrated, each time I weigh 42.2 grains, I'll get 42.2 grains. I can also track and drift using the pan's weight, which is 153grs. As long as it goes to -153 each time I remove it, I know I'm still good-to-go. While the scale was warming up, I adjusted the level, which was very sensitive. It took me a bit to get it centered as each leg movement induced a change that took about a 15-30 seconds to settle. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6991-1_JPG-475590.jpg I used the external calibration mode and the 50g weight to calibrate the unit. It was spot on, but it waivered just a bit between 00 and 01. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6994-1_JPG-475592.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6992-1_JPG-475591.jpg I suspected it could be an air current as I had two of the four breeze shields off; one in front so I can remove the pan and one of the side for the trickler. I didn't want to drill a hole on the plastic window, so I decided to use a LaRue card stock target; it's stiff but flexible. I traced it, cut it out and then added a small hole for the trickler tube. All done! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6998-1_JPG-475594.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_6999-1_JPG-475595.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_7001-1_JPG-475596.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_7002-1_JPG-475597.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/52736/IMG_7003-1_JPG-475586.jpg
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Originally Posted By SecretSquirell: I'll stick my dick in a WorkSharp before I let you try to sharpen anything of mine.
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Originally Posted By jeep450:
I guess my rate of fire was too much. Can’t wait to get this off and see what the cam looks like https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/99144/66455409-135C-4B14-9E81-FF2AA02B0AA2-475752.JPG |
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I'm in the process of updating, and simplifying, the Index. I'll post it as soon as I can go through and validate 54 pages.
I also missed this announcement - ABM Ammo is now Berger Ammo - Hopefully we'll see some price reductions! ABM is Now Berger Berger will be offering two loads for the .260. Where to buy, but nothing in stock yet. ETA - Berger sales replied to my e-mail saying ammunition should be at the retail level "mid second quarter." Oh, and Berger also moved from Commiefornia to Phoenix! ETA II - Berger will be loading the 130 OTMs! |
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Nice to know they are in Phoenix! I've been to suggest an OP update |
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot:
Pretty much the way you have it now with pic's, range report, load data. Maybe in each link add a short description like: Duneshoot range report w & w/o TQ/ distance Or: Billybob load testing case/bullet/powder used |
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Anything that is specific to loading that is good data or gave good results, try and separate that out so we have a meat and potato focus
Especially bushing sizes etc. Then muzzle velocities Then good bullets we have had good results with Brass brand/type conversations etc |
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Originally Posted By mettee:
Anything that is specific to loading that is good data or gave good results, try and separate that out so we have a meat and potato focus Especially bushing sizes etc. Then muzzle velocities Then good bullets we have had good results with Brass brand/type conversations etc |
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