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Posted: 1/4/2012 10:58:22 AM EDT
I've looked and could'nt find the Mo. regulations for instate shipping between two Mo. residents with out an ffl. Got another guy that thinks we have to use an ffl. Could someone please post regs. on this. I'll copy and bookmark them this time.
Thanks Mike
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:24:49 AM EDT
Ask the guy to show you the regs that require a FFL to ship a firearm instate...
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:32:56 AM EDT
The guy says his ffl told him . I'm still looking and can't find the statute on this
Mike
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:33:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 1:34:31 PM EDT by thefreshman991]
BATF Ruling

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.


The problem with the shipping part is finding a carrier to do it. FedEx Will not ship outside a dealer. USPS will not either even though the BATF says so. UPS will per there corporate policy but you have to take it to a Hub and you can not use a UPS Store. Plus you run into the problem with the person behind the counter not knowing the rules and just refusing. I would reconmend it ship disassembled but complete and just say its machined parts.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:57:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thefreshman991:
The problem with the shipping part is finding a carrier to do it. FedEx Will not ship outside a dealer. USPS will not either even though the BATF says so. UPS will per there corporate policy but you have to take it to a Hub and you can not use a UPS Store. Plus you run into the problem with the person behind the counter not knowing the rules and just refusing. I would reconmend it ship disassembled but complete and just say its machined parts.


Did the FedEx policy change? It used to be that you had to sent it Priority overnight from the depot––same as UPS. Unless you are not sending the lower or frame, you are sending a "firearm"......thus violating the shipping agreement. If it goes missing, you're out the money since you sent a "firearm" and NOT "machined parts". Futhermore, if that gun ends up being used in a crime, murder, etc, you could be held civilly along with the shipper. The shipper is going to point the finger at you saying they didn't know it was a firearm and would have provided better security. Who knows who would win, but either way, it could be a huge headache and expense.

USPS will ship firearms––they do it all the time. Non-licensees can only ship long guns. Postal code uses the word "dealer" when they says who can ship handguns, so a C&R doesn't work unfortunately.

Ultimately it can be done, but sometimes it's just cheaper to send it to a FFL or make the drive yourself (or just buy it locally.) Any gun I sell I always require that person have a current CCW or C&R, or I take to my FFL and pay the transfer fee. $20 is nothing compared what you could be fined, jailed, or lose your right to carry a gun. I got scared on one of the first guns I ever sold––the guy said a few strange things, his story wasn't adding up, then when I said he could pick it up at the FFL's (and I would pay), he backed out. Why would you buy a P3AT with a bunch of CCW holsters when you have no intention of CCW'ing it (after you said you had a permit, but really didn't)? Hmmmmmm.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 2:49:22 PM EDT
Thank you so much,I've looked all over and could'nt find this
Thanks again,Mike
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 3:01:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By delorean:
Originally Posted By thefreshman991:
The problem with the shipping part is finding a carrier to do it. FedEx Will not ship outside a dealer. USPS will not either even though the BATF says so. UPS will per there corporate policy but you have to take it to a Hub and you can not use a UPS Store. Plus you run into the problem with the person behind the counter not knowing the rules and just refusing. I would reconmend it ship disassembled but complete and just say its machined parts.


Did the FedEx policy change? It used to be that you had to sent it Priority overnight from the depot––same as UPS. Unless you are not sending the lower or frame, you are sending a "firearm"......thus violating the shipping agreement. If it goes missing, you're out the money since you sent a "firearm" and NOT "machined parts". Futhermore, if that gun ends up being used in a crime, murder, etc, you could be held civilly along with the shipper. The shipper is going to point the finger at you saying they didn't know it was a firearm and would have provided better security. Who knows who would win, but either way, it could be a huge headache and expense.

USPS will ship firearms––they do it all the time. Non-licensees can only ship long guns. Postal code uses the word "dealer" when they says who can ship handguns, so a C&R doesn't work unfortunately.

Ultimately it can be done, but sometimes it's just cheaper to send it to a FFL or make the drive yourself (or just buy it locally.) Any gun I sell I always require that person have a current CCW or C&R, or I take to my FFL and pay the transfer fee. $20 is nothing compared what you could be fined, jailed, or lose your right to carry a gun. I got scared on one of the first guns I ever sold––the guy said a few strange things, his story wasn't adding up, then when I said he could pick it up at the FFL's (and I would pay), he backed out. Why would you buy a P3AT with a bunch of CCW holsters when you have no intention of CCW'ing it (after you said you had a permit, but really didn't)? Hmmmmmm.



http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html

Maybe you can. I read the below from Fedex a while back and I take that as you can't send from individual to individual as OP requested but you can ship to a dealer.

Firearms
Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 3:14:03 PM EDT
I see it says you are required to notify the common or contract carrier that it is a firearm but I see no requirement for notifying the USPS when shipping a rifle. Could that be correct?
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 3:41:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cbr954:
I see it says you are required to notify the common or contract carrier that it is a firearm but I see no requirement for notifying the USPS when shipping a rifle. Could that be correct?
The USPS is a common carrier and a notification is required for long guns.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 3:58:45 PM EDT
USPS will let you ship shotguns and rifles in state non ffl to non ffl as long as no state laws are broken. I would insure to full value also. Pistols are a no go in state as is shipping anything interstate by a non ffl subject to below rules, good luck.
C024 Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter
Summary

C024 describes other restricted or nonmailable items (e.g., firearms, sharp instruments, controlled substances, pesticides).

1.0 Pistols, Revolvers, and Other Concealable Firearms
1.1Definitions

The terms used in this standard are defined as follows:

a. Handgun means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm or device the mailing of which is regulated by this standard.

b. Pistol or revolver means a handgun styled to be fired by the use of a single hand and to fire or otherwise expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

c. Firearm means any device, including a starter gun, designed to, or that may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, spring, or other mechanical action, or air or gas pressure with enough force to be used as a weapon.

d. Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

e. Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than 18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.

f. Licensed manufacturer and licensed dealer mean, respectively, a manufacturer of firearms or a bona fide dealer of firearms, duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury, under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), 18 USC 921, et seq.

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

(1) Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

(2) Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

1.2Handguns

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in 1.3 and 1.5 after the filing of an affidavit or statement required by 1.4 and 1.6.

1.3Authorized Persons

Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person’s official duties:

a. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.

b. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.

c. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

d. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.

e. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.

f. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.

g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 1.3c through 1.3e.

1.4Affidavit of Addressee

Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 1.3 must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 1.3a through 1.3g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee’s official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

a. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.

b. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.

c. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.

d. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 1.3c through 1.3e.

1.5Manufacturers and Dealers

Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

1.6Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers

A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major component parts thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.

1.7FBI Crime Detection Bureaus

Handguns may be mailed without regard to 1.3 through 1.6 if:

a. Addressed to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), or its director, or to the scientific laboratory or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or officers of a state, territory, or district authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment; or

b. Offered by an authorized agent of the federal government as an official shipment to any qualified addressee in categories 1.3a through 1.3g, or to a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms or to a federal agency.

2.0 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 1.3 through 1.6.

3.0 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e.

4.0 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of rifles or shotguns. Contact the nearest office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for further advice.

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