VA AWB thoughts (Page 9 of 11)
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Originally Posted By 1AEGW: SCVA has appointed a 3 judge panel of circuit court judges to deal with these cases. That panel is the first place for appeals of the injunctions to go to if they are unsuccessful in getting the judges who issued the injunctions to reverse their decision. That is not correct. The panel is deciding whether the cases should be consolidated, and so far they have done nothing. By rule, appeals of temporary injunctions go directly to the Supreme Court of Virginia. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Originally Posted By 1AEGW: This is not supported by legal precedent and would open up a whole new slew of litigation, both state and federal, over ex post facto. Why do you say this is the most likely thing? The poster consistently manifests personal fears into worst case scenario opinions. |
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Originally Posted By MikeDeltaFoxtrot: That is not correct. The panel is deciding whether the cases should be consolidated, and so far they have done nothing. By rule, appeals of temporary injunctions go directly to the Supreme Court of Virginia. You are correct, I misread and was wrong. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: The most likely thing is if the injunction gets overturned on appeal it makes every sale after July 1 illegal if it falls in line with the injunction. They could in theory use the VSP information to determine who bought what after July 1st. Magazines and such be harder but I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent a subpoena to the stores to hand over their sales records after July 1st and try to match sales with a credit card or check. Originally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By nvcdl: While I won't fault FFLs for being cautious at some point people need to man up and just start taking these injunctions seriously. The most likely thing is if the injunction gets overturned on appeal it makes every sale after July 1 illegal if it falls in line with the injunction. They could in theory use the VSP information to determine who bought what after July 1st. Magazines and such be harder but I wouldn’t be surprised if they sent a subpoena to the stores to hand over their sales records after July 1st and try to match sales with a credit card or check. If they did this (bolded), it would be an epic waste of LE resources. |
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PSA just hit pause https://youtube.com/shorts/tNdP2g_1l2s?is=GoaE2uAlXffmuINX  URGENT - Virginia Update | Palmetto State Armory |
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Originally Posted By vellnueve: The poster consistently manifests personal fears into worst case scenario opinions. Well sure but keep in mind injunctions have happened with states like CA and in those situations no one was able to buy 30 rounders still and shortly after the law was upheld. I know people here have been saying Virginia is different but I don’t see how it is. I’ll believe it the day I can walk into a gun shop again and see ARs in the wall. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: Well sure but keep in mind injunctions have happened with states like CA and in those situations no one was able to buy 30 rounders still and shortly after the law was upheld. I know people here have been saying Virginia is different but I don’t see how it is. I’ll believe it the day I can walk into a gun shop again and see ARs in the wall. Originally Posted By dalle0001: Originally Posted By vellnueve: The poster consistently manifests personal fears into worst case scenario opinions. Well sure but keep in mind injunctions have happened with states like CA and in those situations no one was able to buy 30 rounders still and shortly after the law was upheld. I know people here have been saying Virginia is different but I don’t see how it is. I’ll believe it the day I can walk into a gun shop again and see ARs in the wall. WRONG Freedom Week 2019: March 29, 2019 – District court summary judgment (Judge Benitez): The court declared § 32310 unconstitutional in its entirety and issued a permanent injunction against enforcement. This briefly lifted all restrictions, including on sale, import, purchase, and receipt. This created “Freedom Week” — from approximately the afternoon of March 29, 2019, until 5:00 p.m. on April 5, 2019 (after the judge partially stayed his own order on April 4–5 at the state’s request). During this short window, California residents could legally purchase and import LCMs. Hundreds of thousands to millions were acquired. Those who did so during this period were later protected from prosecution for the acquisition or possession of those specific magazines. After the partial stay, the bans on new acquisition (sale/import/purchase) were reinstated, but the injunction against the possession ban remained in effect for magazines already lawfully held (including Freedom Week ones). Also, LOL, no one is going to bring in new AR inventory, that would be a dumb business decision unless they have a way to return inventory to their distributors. The focus here is the ability to still order mags and get transfers done from stocking dealers via your local FFL. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: Well sure but keep in mind injunctions have happened with states like CA and in those situations no one was able to buy 30 rounders still and shortly after the law was upheld. I know people here have been saying Virginia is different but I don't see how it is. I'll believe it the day I can walk into a gun shop again and see ARs in the wall. Many counties in CA started issuing CCWs too, I had one in San Diego county. I have no idea what's going to happen in VA, but it's not always all bad. Just look at NFA stuff at the fed level. Prepare for the worst, but have some hope. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: I lived in CA when that happened, and you're wrong, thousands, probably tens of thousands of mags shipped into CA. So many that basically it's now legal to possess them because they'd never be able to prove when they were bought. Many counties in CA started issuing CCWs too, I had one in San Diego county. I have no idea what's going to happen in VA, but it's not always all bad. Just look at NFA stuff at the fed level. Prepare for the worst, but have some hope. I don’t know. I don’t live in CA but from what I read from people who lived there no one was able to buy one from a store or online. Matter of fact many places won’t even ship to CA since they made some sort of new law on parts. Perhaps you found some sort of black hole in San Diego. Not sure. But I will attempt to go to a store tomorrow and see if I can. There are several shops around me so who knows. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: I don't know. I don't live in CA but from what I read from people who lived there no one was able to buy one from a store or online. Matter of fact many places won't even ship to CA since they made some sort of new law on parts. Perhaps you found some sort of black hole in San Diego. Not sure. But I will attempt to go to a store tomorrow and see if I can. There are several shops around me so who knows. Even in the EE folks were dumping mags into California because they could restock after. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: My brother in christ. I do know. I lived there. I lived through it. I ordered mags online. Every online retailer around was shipping mags into CA during freedom week. This is well know. Google freedom week. Even in the EE folks were dumping mags into California because they could restock after. I remember it vaguely. But keep in mind what I said about the injunction being overturned and having illegal items is not something I made up. It is something VCDL sent along with their email. So I didn't make it up out of my ass. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: I remember it vaguely. But keep in mind what I said about the injunction being overturned and having illegal items is not something I made up. It is something VCDL sent along with their email. So I didn't make it up out of my ass. That's it. I don't know what will happen in VA, but I'm rooting for you guys even if you argue with me about something I personally experienced lol. |
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Originally Posted By bad2006z71: Well I guess welcome to shit hole status. Looks like VGT removed the AR/AK section. Also UBC's are back, so VGT will go back to being dead. Yeah sad day, site doesn’t look right without that section. Guess they are Covering their ass. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: Anyone reporting back if they can buy magazines in stores still? I plan to stop by this big shop later today to see if they still have that giant magpul rack. |
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| DOJ sued Virginia this morning in federal court in Richmond on the narrow issue of banning the sale of "AR-15 style rifles." The acknowledge the prior adverse CA4 precedent from Maryland and state that it was wrongly decided. This will be a certain loss in the trial court, but it is likely to hang around the Fourth Circuit until the Supreme Court rules on Viramontes. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Originally Posted By MikeDeltaFoxtrot: DOJ sued Virginia this morning in federal court in Richmond on the narrow issue of banning the sale of "AR-15 style rifles." The acknowledge the prior adverse CA4 precedent from Maryland and state that it was wrongly decided. This will be a certain loss in the trial court, but it is likely to hang around the Fourth Circuit until the Supreme Court rules on Viramontes. The good news is the Eastern District of VA Federal Court is known as the rocket docket so it will get to trial quickly (relative to the rest of the legal system). I have experienced this. Federal Court is also much more complex and will suck up the state's resources. |
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Just came out from the store. People were still transferring Psa items and they still sold ARs that they had in stock. I managed to buy 1 pmag 30 rounder. Attached File 
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: Just came out from the store. People were still transferring Psa items and they still sold ARs that they had in stock. I managed to buy 1 pmag 30 rounder. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/365562/IMG_4506_jpeg-3788150.JPG 
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Originally Posted By 1AEGW: The good news is the Eastern District of VA Federal Court is known as the rocket docket so it will get to trial quickly (relative to the rest of the legal system). I have experienced this. Federal Court is also much more complex and will suck up the state's resources. I have quite a bit of experience in that court. How fast the docket goes these days depends heavily on which judge you draw. Some are old school with a true rocket docket, and others are more leisurely. I'd be very surprised if this case went to trial. I expect there will be cross motions for summary judgment relatively soon. An aggressive move would be for the DOJ to seek a preliminary injunction. They would lose in the trial court and CA4, but there might be a chance the Supreme Court would grant one in light of the cert grant in Viramontes. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Originally Posted By 1911nick: Yeah sad day, site doesn’t look right without that section. Guess they are Covering their ass. Originally Posted By 1911nick: Originally Posted By bad2006z71: Well I guess welcome to shit hole status. Looks like VGT removed the AR/AK section. Also UBC's are back, so VGT will go back to being dead. Yeah sad day, site doesn’t look right without that section. Guess they are Covering their ass. Yup. After the injunction in late October, it picked again, now not much traffic but it could be the holiday too. 
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Originally Posted By 1AEGW: Freedom Outdoors still had all their mags and firearms targeted by the double injuncted ban out for sale today. At least they are sticking to their name! That’s my favorite store! I do have a feeling we probably crossed paths a few times lol. |
| I have it on good authority that the 3 judge panel held a hearing this morning and denied consolidation of the various cases challenging the ban. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Originally Posted By bad2006z71: Would that be good or bad? Originally Posted By bad2006z71: Originally Posted By MikeDeltaFoxtrot: I have it on good authority that the 3 judge panel held a hearing this morning and denied consolidation of the various cases challenging the ban. Would that be good or bad? It is a win. It allows the current cases, which were filed in rural jurisdictions where you might hope to get a judge who will give you a fair shake, to proceed where they are. We only have to win one. Of course it will be appealed, but it is always better to go up having won below. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Yes the general idea for Jay is to get it all rolled into one then put it in front of a judge more likely to uphold it. Jay can’t stop from submitting lawsuits but his goal was to control which judge would hear it more likely to rule in his favor. Attached File While not a major victory having some wins a good thing. But as I mentioned in other states similar things like this has happened that ultimately got the law upheld. If anything this might be more dangerous because it would mean upholding it would set precedent when it eventually reaches the scova. |
| The big issue is that the it will take potentially years for this to reach the Supreme Court of Virginia on the merits due to having to be tried then have a first level appeal to the Court of Appeals. By the time it gets to the SCV, the marxists in the legislature will have had the opportunity to pack the court with their ilk. I think we will ultimately lose in state court. But the cert grant by SCOTUS in Viramontes gives me hope. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Keep in mind next year the AWB will be heard at the SCOTUS. That particular AWB doesn’t have magazine limits but it does have AW language. If that is ruled unconstitutional there’s a good bet that Virginia will have it overturned with the magazine restrictions since it is baked into AWB. So that is something to consider at least short term. But if the scotus rules that the AWB is constitutional then we are screwed to the core. There’s a good chance any future lawsuit here in VA will be upheld. So by this time next year we will know for sure if the AWB is constitutional at the national level then that will trickle down to our state. |
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The one in most urgent need for a gun ban is jay Jones who wanted to kill a GOP opponent and his kids. Regarding AW and mag bans, isn't there a concept of severability that requires specific language in the bill to keep it all from going away if one provision is found unconstitutional? |
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Originally Posted By ducbsa: The one in most urgent need for a gun ban is jay Jones who wanted to kill a GOP opponent and his kids. Regarding AW and mag bans, isn't there a concept of severability that requires specific language in the bill to keep it all from going away if one provision is found unconstitutional? Severability is addressed in the code. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title1/chapter2.1/section1-243/ |
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Originally Posted By ducbsa: The one in most urgent need for a gun ban is jay Jones who wanted to kill a GOP opponent and his kids. Regarding AW and mag bans, isn't there a concept of severability that requires specific language in the bill to keep it all from going away if one provision is found unconstitutional? Well yes at least short term. As shown with the UBC laws all they need to do is pass laws that have the correct languages to comply with the ruling. So if the AWB is ruled unconstitutional at the SCOTUS and it gets overturned in Virginia then all they’d need to do is rewrite it a little to get the magazine ban back in place. |
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The 2 cases don't involve std capacity mags, so the only ruling out of SCOTUS will be whether AR-15's and other semi auto rifles are constitutionally protected. Which the court most likely will rule correctly. Va's rifle ban will go away, only to give way to a license and registration scheme. Which will take years to work it's way through the courts, in which case, this particular SCOTUS will most likely uphold, if the fees aren't insane. I doubt Roberts, Barrett, Goursch, or Kav have a problem with registration. The Mag ban cases will get GVR'd in light of the AW case, where the lower courts will latch on and/or twist any wording they can from that ruling to say that mag bans are legal. |
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BREAKING: Judge Campbell in the Washington County case (Santolla v. Katz) revised his letter opinion today and wrote that he intends to enjoin every law enforcement agency in the Commonwealth from enforcing the challenged statutes. He is going to order the clerk of the Washington County Circuit Court to serve the order on every LE agency. There is still no injunction in force until the order is signed, but it should be forthcoming. |
"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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LOL. Attached File Attached File Attached File Two bullets jay better invest in some tums. |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
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Originally Posted By bad2006z71: The 2 cases don't involve std capacity mags, so the only ruling out of SCOTUS will be whether AR-15's and other semi auto rifles are constitutionally protected. Which the court most likely will rule correctly. Va's rifle ban will go away, only to give way to a license and registration scheme. Which will take years to work it's way through the courts, in which case, this particular SCOTUS will most likely uphold, if the fees aren't insane. I doubt Roberts, Barrett, Goursch, or Kav have a problem with registration. The Mag ban cases will get GVR'd in light of the AW case, where the lower courts will latch on and/or twist any wording they can from that ruling to say that mag bans are legal. Registration = confiscation list |
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Originally Posted By HokieErik: The AAG is named Pebbles? Apparently Pebbles is a she. And a graduate of the absolutely worst law school in Virginia. 
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"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9 (ESV)
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Originally Posted By MikeDeltaFoxtrot: Apparently Pebbles is a she. And a graduate of the absolutely worst law school in Virginia. https://www.asl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Pebbles-Burgess-1.png Originally Posted By MikeDeltaFoxtrot: Originally Posted By HokieErik: The AAG is named Pebbles? Apparently Pebbles is a she. And a graduate of the absolutely worst law school in Virginia. https://www.asl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Pebbles-Burgess-1.png Attached File |
Be a hard-ass. Every day should be like his first day in prison, and he's all alone in the yard without a shiv.
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Originally Posted By ridinshotgun: Two bullets jay better invest in some tums. And some Prep H |
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Originally Posted By bulldog1967: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6755/Screenshot_2026-07-08_at_10_38_48%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%C2%AFAM-3791603.png Nice. I wonder if anyone else will do the same (looking at you Atlantic Firearms) |
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