Crystal wants an AR in a bad way.  She's thinking 16", Vertical Foregrip, and eventually an Aimpoint.  Now we're not going out and picking this up today, it's gonna be a few months, but should I be looking at a build, or buying all new.  Also since she want's an aimpoint, am I stuck with and A3 or M4 setup or can this be done on an A1 or A2?

Well, my friend, Crystal shot my AR and liked it (I think).  I’ll throw my .02 in the hat.

I’m convinced the best way to buy an AR is to get a stripped lower and build the lower.  Buy the upper complete.  And buy a good upper, like a Bushy or a RRA.  Check upper and parts kit prices locally and on the Internet.  You can then buy this is pieces over a few months.  Plus, you’ll save a little money.  

I can help you with the lower build if you want.  (Yea, like you need the help.  You’re a damn mechanic!  LOL.)

I’d go with an A3 upper and wouldn’t even bother getting the carry handle.  For the cost of the carry handle (if not LESS), you can get a good BUIS.  Start off with just those iron sights.  When you can afford it, throw an Aimpoint on it.  You can mount an Aimpoint forward of a carry handle, but the mounts and handle add extra weight.  I personally just like having the Aimpoint right on the flattop.

The Bushy pencil barrel will help keep weight down.  However, I’m not sure how much perceived difference there really is in a pencil and an M4 barrel like mine.  The pencil barrel will get hot and lose accuracy quicker than the M4 (IIRC).

I’m also sold on the AAC rail and vertical grip I’ve got.  For the price, you can’t beat it.

I know I just described my rifle, so maybe I’m just biased.  But I did a lot of “trying things out” and research before I put mine together.  And it sounds like what Crystal wants is almost exactly what I wanted.  You know you’re welcome to come shoot mine whenever you want.

Quoted: Crystal wants an AR in a bad way.

Gotta love that!  

ADCO Firearms in Sylvania, Ohio will sell you a complete RRA lower for $210 and complete RRA uppers for well under $400. They advertise on ARFCOM, so that is more reason to check them out. I can't build a lower for that price and it's RRA, so you know the quality is there.

That's a heck of a woman you've got there.

After shooting Book's CQB setup, I was hooked as well. I'm going to do something along those lines with the mantra "smaller, lighter, cheaper" because this will be a range toy, not an entry weapon. My optics budget is more like ProPoint than Aimpoint.
The lower assembly looks straightforward, with the right tools- don't want to scratch a lower. BTW, for those who have assembled, what tools did you use?

Oh, and ditto on what Chainsaw said, if you're looking for an all RRA build.

BTW, Delta- I'm back at work tomorrow and will IM you with more info on critters.
-Hobbit
Now I've got to find a parts kit....

-Hobbit

Indeed, chainshaw.  That is some good info.

Hobbit, to put together a lower all you need is some roll pin punches, a hammer and a block of wood.  A razor blade will also come in handy for the pivot pin detent spring.  After my first build, in which I used pin punches instead of roll pin punches, chainshaw got me a set of the correct punches for CHEAP.  So, if you need help building one, let me know.

BookHound- I just might take you up on that. If I ever decide what kit to get, we should do a build party. And eat at Cracker Barrel afterward. And then eat some Mexican.
-Hobbit

Quoted: And then eat some Mexican. -Hobbit

I don't think eating Mexicans is legal.  

Eating Mexican is infact illegal but Hobbit has a carry permit for salsa and chips which he uses regularly. The only issue that comes to mind is you would have to find a flash suppressor for the Mexican and from what I read online one is not needed for curry unless you have a hair trigger and are worried about accidental discharge. lol I say go curry or Tai myself :) I have been perusing the ar15 forum as well as sites online as to the type of build I would like for my first ar15. I am thinking about getting a a3 top for the sheer fact that when I decide to add accessories down the road it will be easier to do and more practical (scopes and the like) from what this newbie has read, a flat-top upper is the way to go. I Tough decisions indeed but it sure is fun reading and learning and exchanging ideas :)I am thinking going with a 20" hbar and for sure a free float tube for aiding in and adding a bipod later on or if I can get a good sling setup. Shooting Hobbits 20" I liked the fact that due to the length and weight of the barrel there wasnt much recoil or blast. Is there that much of a difference in terms of recoil and blast between the 16 and 20"? I dont mind a little kick but at the same time I wouldnt want to make the person next to me shudder every time I let off a round. I do like the fact that a 16" would make for a lighter rifle and as such I could shoot longer at the range standing up with a 16 over a 20" I need an upper receiver shell deflector setup since I am left handed. As far as the buttock and the grip goes, I know I dont want the standard but on the other hand I dont need anything too fancy just starting out. If there is anything that I should or need to look for being a lefthanded shooter in regards to upper receiver makeup I would more than welcome feedback and imput. I am not looking at building a top of the line tactical weapon at this point in time but rather a solid accurate ar that I can shoot from 100-300 yards or whatever the case may be for primarily range use. With using a 20" hbar I dont see a need to get a muzzle break but I am just a newbie and you gentlemen are more versed in this to say the least than me so I bow to your knowledge and experience. Hobbit has been helping me to learn a little bit here and there as I go and I sure did enjoy shooting his AR15 made from RRA

Can anyone tell that Vetekbob and I work at the same place?

For the record, while I have never needed a flash hider for Mexican, a silencer is sometimes required.

-Hobbit

Delta, whatever you need let me know first.

By the way, no word on the Dragunov yet.

Guys, I forgot GAcop is an FFL.  I like to give business to local guys first when possible.  

vetekbob, come shoot my 16" Bushy before you decide.  Recoil isn't any different (not that I can tell) between it and my 20" HBAR.

Quoted: Is there that much of a difference in terms of recoil and blast between the 16 and 20"? I dont mind a little kick but at the same time I wouldnt want to make the person next to me shudder every time I let off a round.

Recoil is very manageable in the 16" AR's.  It's bark is definitely worse than it's bite.  I may be the wrong person to ask, though, as my "toy" is a 16" barreled FAL that most certainly makes the people next to me shudder.  

thanks book I will take you up on that some time :) The more I read and study the more I realize how much I dont know lol I would have better luck finding the end to the internet lol j/k I appreciate the offer Book.

Quoted: Quoted: Is there that much of a difference in terms of recoil and blast between the 16 and 20"? I dont mind a little kick but at the same time I wouldnt want to make the person next to me shudder every time I let off a round. Recoil is very manageable in the 16" AR's.  It's bark is definitely worse than it's bite.  I may be the wrong person to ask, though, as my "toy" is a 16" barreled FAL that most certainly makes the people next to me shudder.

It doesn't make people shudder, it just peels the skin off their face, wraps their eyelids over their foreheads, and drives their eardrums further into their brain case.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is there that much of a difference in terms of recoil and blast between the 16 and 20"? I dont mind a little kick but at the same time I wouldnt want to make the person next to me shudder every time I let off a round. Recoil is very manageable in the 16" AR's.  It's bark is definitely worse than it's bite.  I may be the wrong person to ask, though, as my "toy" is a 16" barreled FAL that most certainly makes the people next to me shudder.   It doesn't make people shudder, it just peels the skin off their face, wraps their eyelids over their foreheads, and drives their eardrums further into their brain case.

Ah...so it's not as bad as I thought!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is there that much of a difference in terms of recoil and blast between the 16 and 20"? I dont mind a little kick but at the same time I wouldnt want to make the person next to me shudder every time I let off a round. Recoil is very manageable in the 16" AR's.  It's bark is definitely worse than it's bite.  I may be the wrong person to ask, though, as my "toy" is a 16" barreled FAL that most certainly makes the people next to me shudder.   It doesn't make people shudder, it just peels the skin off their face, wraps their eyelids over their foreheads, and drives their eardrums further into their brain case. Ah...so it's not as bad as I thought!

Hate to burst your bubble, Bradd, my friend.  But our FALs are NOTHING compared the Delta's CETME.  That damn thing brought my flinch back.

Wait till I come up with an extra 6-10k.  Can anyone say Barett???????  
I know I know it's a wet dream at this point.

Quoted: Hate to burst your bubble, Bradd, my friend.  But our FALs are NOTHING compared the Delta's CETME.  That damn thing brought my flinch back.

My god...that was the funniest thing I think I've ever seen!  You looked like you had Turet's!

Yea, my neck is still sore from all the twiching.

Quoted: Hate to burst your bubble, Bradd, my friend.  But our FALs are NOTHING compared the Delta's CETME.  That damn thing brought my flinch back.

And I hate to say it, but I happened to be in between the FAL in question AND the CETME in question AT THE SAME TIME.

The FAL was the worst.  Hands-down, no contest, game over.

The CETME made me blink.  The FAL made me flinch.  I've said earlier that it took nearly ALL of my concentration to block out the FAL so that I could actually touch off a few from the pigsticker.  Many times that I tried I was unsuccessful and had to wait for the FAL mag to be empty and hope I could squeeze out my 5 measly 7.62x54R rounds before you guys got another mag loaded.

Really?  The FAL was that bad?  Did you notice any difference between mine (rifle) and Bradd's (carbine)?  

BTW, that pigsticker was FUN to shoot.

The difference was negligible between the two, as far as I could tell.  But they were both MUCH worse than the CETME.

Yeah, last Saturday the pigsticker, the Swede, and my eyes (very near-sighted in both eyes, bad astigmatism, too) all surprised me.  Ask Allen about me drilling the steel plate on the far left with the pigsticker offhand, iron sights, repeatedly.  I do not regularly shoot this well, and I'm thinking it all has to do with the sling setup on the Nagant - much more stable to shoot with, despite the weight.

I should also mention that I have never ever bothered sighting in either rifle - which makes it even more amazing since I have removed and re-installed or replaced the front sight post on both.  Dumb luck on getting them back in the right spot, I guess.