Posted: 3/14/2014 3:35:25 PM EDT
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Gentlemen,
My daughter's car was impounded last night for revoked registration because of no proof of insurance. I physically drove to the site where she was with four police officers and showed them the current insurance coverage and had Allstate on the line and they confirmed with the officers that the vehicle was covered. They still impounded the vehicle. I was told "Be lucky we are not taking her to jail". We found out today that the insurance company had put a "l" in place of a "1" on the VIN number and this was the root problem. Long story short, daughter is out the money for towing ($95) and was late to work as we had to get the car out of impound. Not a big deal to me, but I understand her frustration. During the impounding, the instigating police officer went through her car from head to toe. Presumably looking for drugs, but says he was there to inventory any valuables when I asked him. Here's my question. Is it legal to search a vehicle without permission once it has been impounded? I'm not mad or "Bashing any cops", just wondering. Oh, and the reason for her to be pulled over was a driver's headlight being out. I know, she should have PMCSed the vehicle prior to operation. |
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Well, it looked like what I watch on COPS. He was under the seats, all over the place like you would see someone looking for crack.
He picked the wrong kid though as my daughter sees everything black or white, right or wrong, and it has to be by the book. I call her Lawyer Daggett. She's never had any run ins with the MAN. I'm just disappointed as this would have been the perfect time for a "Good" learning experience with LE. Instead, it was simply another typical experience with Gwinnett LE that even though you show 100% proof that you are in the right, and the officer can use his discretion, it was decided to still push the issue. That was my take away. I still support LE, but it's hard to look Mackenzie in her eyes and tell her it was fair deal. |
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Technically, the GCIC information is what the officers use to determine if a vehicle has valid insurance. I personally call to verify and if the agent tells me there is an active policy i send them on their way and let them know the tag office needs to be notified that there was a mistake. While they weren't technically wrong, i certainly would've handled that situation differently.
As to the search, yes an inventory is conducted prior to impound 100% of the time. This protects the agency from someone picking up their car and saying "oh by the way, my gold Rolex that was in the center console is missing." |
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Quoted:
Technically, the GCIC information is what the officers use to determine if a vehicle has valid insurance. I personally call to verify and if the agent tells me there is an active policy i send them on their way and let them know the tag office needs to be notified that there was a mistake. While they weren't technically wrong, i certainly would've handled that situation differently. As to the search, yes an inventory is conducted prior to impound 100% of the time. This protects the agency from someone picking up their car and saying "oh by the way, my gold Rolex that was in the center console is missing." This. Also add that the agency must have written policy concerning inventory of vehicles. I understand why the state went to using the GEICS system for insurance, but it sure has made it unreliable as it has added more people in the chain where information can be mistyped like the OP mentioned. I do not trust the GEICS system for this reason, but is the burden of proof used by most everybody. Also, common sense goes a long ways in these situations. |
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Technically, the GCIC information is what the officers use to determine if a vehicle has valid insurance. I personally call to verify and if the agent tells me there is an active policy i send them on their way and let them know the tag office needs to be notified that there was a mistake. While they weren't technically wrong, i certainly would've handled that situation differently. As to the search, yes an inventory is conducted prior to impound 100% of the time. This protects the agency from someone picking up their car and saying "oh by the way, my gold Rolex that was in the center console is missing." I do the same. If you can prove to me that the insurance is valid while on scene, I'll send you off on your way. Officer's need to be careful about doing an inventory in a manner that could be confused with a search. Just because I'm doing an inventory of your vehicle doesn't mean I can go pulling out door panels, looking through suit cases, etc etc etc. And from my training, you better inventory every car the same way. |
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Per state law, the "proof" of insurance is the GCIC printout and not the paperwork that you have from the insurance company although state law does require that you keep something with your policy number on it in the vehicle for accident reporting purposes. Some officers will give the benefit of the doubt in such instances, but those who don't are within the letter of the law. The error here rests with the insurance company for incorrectly reporting the VIN. Perhaps your daughter should take it up with the insurance agent to see about a credit on her next bill for the amount of the towing bill. It is a fairly standard practice, and one upheld by the courts, to conduct an inventory of any vehicle that is towed to document the contents. The courts say this is to protect the vehicle owner, the officer, and the wrecker driver.
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view:
You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. |
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. A few months back, I switched insurance companies when I bought my new truck. While driving home from work early in the morning, I was pulled over in Lumpkin County and was advised by the deputy that my tag was suspsended due to no insurance. He let me call my insurance company to verify that they had made a mistake and failed to report the policy to the state. After that, he let me drive home and I told him that I would make sure it was all fixed at the tag office. I was in uniform though, and that may have had something to do with him letting me leave. I had insurance, its just that the company did not report it to the state. This was easily verified by calling the insurance company. If on a traffic stop, and the same thing happens to someone else, I will do the same and have them call their insurance company to verify valid coverage. I also would have the insurance company fax me proof of insurance just to cover my butt. Now, if the person has some crappy insurance company and isn't able to verify their coverage at 3 am on the side of the road...then I would have no choice but to impound it and issue a citation. I also did a private property accident last week where one of the vehicles involved did not have insurance, had a badly shattered windshield, and all four tires had metal showing on them. I told them that he was not to drive his vehicle out of the parking lot. I leave the scene and not 2 minutes later I see the vehicle pulling out and a driving down a back road. I pulled him over, arrested him, and impounded his vehicle. |
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A few months back, I switched insurance companies when I bought my new truck. While driving home from work early in the morning, I was pulled over in Lumpkin County and was advised by the deputy that my tag was suspsended due to no insurance. He let me call my insurance company to verify that they had made a mistake and failed to report the policy to the state. After that, he let me drive home and I told him that I would make sure it was all fixed at the tag office. I was in uniform though, and that may have had something to do with him letting me leave. I had insurance, its just that the company did not report it to the state. This was easily verified by calling the insurance company. If on a traffic stop, and the same thing happens to someone else, I will do the same and have them call their insurance company to verify valid coverage. I also would have the insurance company fax me proof of insurance just to cover my butt. Now, if the person has some crappy insurance company and isn't able to verify their coverage at 3 am on the side of the road...then I would have no choice but to impound it and issue a citation. I also did a private property accident last week where one of the vehicles involved did not have insurance, had a badly shattered windshield, and all four tires had metal showing on them. I told them that he was not to drive his vehicle out of the parking lot. I leave the scene and not 2 minutes later I see the vehicle pulling out and a driving down a back road. I pulled him over, arrested him, and impounded his vehicle. Quoted:
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. A few months back, I switched insurance companies when I bought my new truck. While driving home from work early in the morning, I was pulled over in Lumpkin County and was advised by the deputy that my tag was suspsended due to no insurance. He let me call my insurance company to verify that they had made a mistake and failed to report the policy to the state. After that, he let me drive home and I told him that I would make sure it was all fixed at the tag office. I was in uniform though, and that may have had something to do with him letting me leave. I had insurance, its just that the company did not report it to the state. This was easily verified by calling the insurance company. If on a traffic stop, and the same thing happens to someone else, I will do the same and have them call their insurance company to verify valid coverage. I also would have the insurance company fax me proof of insurance just to cover my butt. Now, if the person has some crappy insurance company and isn't able to verify their coverage at 3 am on the side of the road...then I would have no choice but to impound it and issue a citation. I also did a private property accident last week where one of the vehicles involved did not have insurance, had a badly shattered windshield, and all four tires had metal showing on them. I told them that he was not to drive his vehicle out of the parking lot. I leave the scene and not 2 minutes later I see the vehicle pulling out and a driving down a back road. I pulled him over, arrested him, and impounded his vehicle. These stories make me giggle. OF COURSE your uniform had something to do with the flexibility you were shown. |
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These stories make me giggle. OF COURSE your uniform had something to do with the flexibility you were shown. Quoted:
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. A few months back, I switched insurance companies when I bought my new truck. While driving home from work early in the morning, I was pulled over in Lumpkin County and was advised by the deputy that my tag was suspsended due to no insurance. He let me call my insurance company to verify that they had made a mistake and failed to report the policy to the state. After that, he let me drive home and I told him that I would make sure it was all fixed at the tag office. I was in uniform though, and that may have had something to do with him letting me leave. I had insurance, its just that the company did not report it to the state. This was easily verified by calling the insurance company. If on a traffic stop, and the same thing happens to someone else, I will do the same and have them call their insurance company to verify valid coverage. I also would have the insurance company fax me proof of insurance just to cover my butt. Now, if the person has some crappy insurance company and isn't able to verify their coverage at 3 am on the side of the road...then I would have no choice but to impound it and issue a citation. I also did a private property accident last week where one of the vehicles involved did not have insurance, had a badly shattered windshield, and all four tires had metal showing on them. I told them that he was not to drive his vehicle out of the parking lot. I leave the scene and not 2 minutes later I see the vehicle pulling out and a driving down a back road. I pulled him over, arrested him, and impounded his vehicle. These stories make me giggle. OF COURSE your uniform had something to do with the flexibility you were shown. Not always. I was also given a citation by the same agency last year because I did not properly display my tag on my CUCV m1009. I had the tag in my center console, but not displayed on the rear. I told him that I was having a tag mount welded to the bumper in the next few days. He came back to me with a citation. I was also in uniform on my way to work. I politely signed the ticket and paid it. I also posted that I give people an opportunity to prove that they have insurance, even though I don't have to. 98% of the time, the people driving without insurance, know that they don't have insurance. |
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These stories make me giggle. OF COURSE your uniform had something to do with the flexibility you were shown. Quoted:
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. A few months back, I switched insurance companies when I bought my new truck. While driving home from work early in the morning, I was pulled over in Lumpkin County and was advised by the deputy that my tag was suspsended due to no insurance. He let me call my insurance company to verify that they had made a mistake and failed to report the policy to the state. After that, he let me drive home and I told him that I would make sure it was all fixed at the tag office. I was in uniform though, and that may have had something to do with him letting me leave. I had insurance, its just that the company did not report it to the state. This was easily verified by calling the insurance company. If on a traffic stop, and the same thing happens to someone else, I will do the same and have them call their insurance company to verify valid coverage. I also would have the insurance company fax me proof of insurance just to cover my butt. Now, if the person has some crappy insurance company and isn't able to verify their coverage at 3 am on the side of the road...then I would have no choice but to impound it and issue a citation. I also did a private property accident last week where one of the vehicles involved did not have insurance, had a badly shattered windshield, and all four tires had metal showing on them. I told them that he was not to drive his vehicle out of the parking lot. I leave the scene and not 2 minutes later I see the vehicle pulling out and a driving down a back road. I pulled him over, arrested him, and impounded his vehicle. These stories make me giggle. OF COURSE your uniform had something to do with the flexibility you were shown. I didn't want to be the one to say it, bit I'll +1 it 
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. I appreciate the LE point of view. No lapse in coverage that I am aware of. Daughter was paying over $300 per month for some fly by night insurance company. She asked her mother and me if we could put her back on our policy to lower her cost. We agreed and she went down to $200 per month which is a substantial savings for her. We have been with the same carrier for twenty years. While I was on the phone with one patrolmen (He had me on speaker), I heard the second patrolmen make this comment..."Well I see mommy and daddy pay for all your stuff" which is untrue. And I should have said something to him when I was on scene, but didn't as I did not want to antagonize the situation. I guess now that I have had the opportunity to listen to you guys, I am becoming angrier over the situation. FYI. Both my daughter and I were both extremely professional and had no attitude or ill will toward the LE while we were there. |
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I appreciate the LE point of view. No lapse in coverage that I am aware of. Daughter was paying over $300 per month for some fly by night insurance company. She asked her mother and me if we could put her back on our policy to lower her cost. We agreed and she went down to $200 per month which is a substantial savings for her. We have been with the same carrier for twenty years. While I was on the phone with one patrolmen (He had me on speaker), I heard the second patrolmen make this comment..."Well I see mommy and daddy pay for all your stuff" which is untrue. And I should have said something to him when I was on scene, but didn't as I did not want to antagonize the situation. I guess now that I have had the opportunity to listen to you guys, I am becoming angrier over the situation. FYI. Both my daughter and I were both extremely professional and had no attitude or ill will toward the LE while we were there. Quoted:
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While the situation does suck, I'll give it to you from the police officer's point of view: You may have valid insurance, but was there a lapse of coverage that caused the registration to be revoked? In this case, a typographical error let to the registration being suspended due to lack of insurance coverage. So what happens if I just let a vehicle without valid insurance or registration leave the scene and it is then involved in a wreck? As a police officer, I'm a had ass, as my agency can now be held liable for letting that vehicle back on the road. All that crap about your daughter being lucky she wasn't arrested is bullshit. There is no need to be acting like that. In that situation, I would have offered the oppurtunity for you to park the vehicle or have it towed home until you could fix the insurance issue. I appreciate the LE point of view. No lapse in coverage that I am aware of. Daughter was paying over $300 per month for some fly by night insurance company. She asked her mother and me if we could put her back on our policy to lower her cost. We agreed and she went down to $200 per month which is a substantial savings for her. We have been with the same carrier for twenty years. While I was on the phone with one patrolmen (He had me on speaker), I heard the second patrolmen make this comment..."Well I see mommy and daddy pay for all your stuff" which is untrue. And I should have said something to him when I was on scene, but didn't as I did not want to antagonize the situation. I guess now that I have had the opportunity to listen to you guys, I am becoming angrier over the situation. FYI. Both my daughter and I were both extremely professional and had no attitude or ill will toward the LE while we were there. Whether or not "mommy and daddy" pay for all her stuff should not matter and that comment was dumb and uncalled for. |
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Per state law, the "proof" of insurance is the GCIC printout and not the paperwork that you have from the insurance company although state law does require that you keep something with your policy number on it in the vehicle for accident reporting purposes. Some officers will give the benefit of the doubt in such instances, but those who don't are within the letter of the law. The error here rests with the insurance company for incorrectly reporting the VIN. Perhaps your daughter should take it up with the insurance agent to see about a credit on her next bill for the amount of the towing bill. It is a fairly standard practice, and one upheld by the courts, to conduct an inventory of any vehicle that is towed to document the contents. The courts say this is to protect the vehicle owner, the officer, and the wrecker driver. Understood. |
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I had a little incident not too long ago where we had to list an inventory of my vehicle. Quite funny as i rand down the list of firearms and accessories. GSP officer just said" Holy Shit" amd kept typing. Never even looked in the truck. That's funny. I own a side business that is an 07/02 FFL. So you can imagine the kind of fun guns we manufacturer. We normally shoot in Wilkes County and I have always wondered what would happen if we got pulled over with machine guns, silencers, and thousands of rounds of ammo in the back of my truck. I do carry a 3 ring binder with documentation that supports everything, but you never know. |
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Yup called "inventory". Once you showed up with proof of insurance it shouldn't have been an issue. If it shows in GCIC as revoked it requires impound/apprehension as far as I'm tracking, its pretty much the same catagory as suspended. GCIC return of unknown insurance can be beat with proof of. The states rather tenuous legal claim in this case is that because the vin is not correct the vehicle is not covered, therefore you are driving uninsured. And yes, the tow/impound inventory is legal, as they need a list of what was other vehicle before it was released so you can't claim anything was stolen while it was out of your control |
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Common Sense.... It's not always black and white... I have LOTS of LEO as friends... and I venture to say that a very SMALL percentage of them are 100% legally compliant, and standing tall as per OCGA and federal statutes are concerned. I will state for fact that I am PRO LE... and will always be... BUT... we all know that there are cases all over the place where there are folks in uniform that have no business.... Just ask any supervisor... they have that "one" that they have to keep a tight grip on... and a close eye... otherwise they will be standing tall before the man for some dumb shit...
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| Have been in the exact situation, but as le. Subject stated he had insurance, gcic said did not. I called and talked to insurance agent. Vin was incorrect. I corrected the vin with her over the phone, asked the wrecker driver to please not hook up the car. Wrote the person a warning for what ever it was I originally stopped him for and noted on the warning his insurance agent, time and policy number. Once again its common sense. If the person is someone knowingly breaking the law then deal with it. If its a mistake, deal with that in the appropriate manner. If I could prove I had taken the necessary steps to ensure the vehicle was indeed insured, then myself and department are cleared. |
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Have been in the exact situation, but as le. Subject stated he had insurance, gcic said did not. I called and talked to insurance agent. Vin was incorrect. I corrected the vin with her over the phone, asked the wrecker driver to please not hook up the car. Wrote the person a warning for what ever it was I originally stopped him for and noted on the warning his insurance agent, time and policy number. Once again its common sense. If the person is someone knowingly breaking the law then deal with it. If its a mistake, deal with that in the appropriate manner. If I could prove I had taken the necessary steps to ensure the vehicle was indeed insured, then myself and department are cleared. Congratulations in the proper use of common sense in pubic service! 
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I've been following this, but as an LEO in the Savannah area, I've been a little busy and am finally able to offer my opinion.
It is my opinion that the Suspended Registration code section is nothing but a racket and I personally rarely enforce it. I too, was once the victim of an insurance company screwing the pooch and getting my tag suspended. Luckily I never got caught and discovered this when I went to the tag office to do my annual renewal. It has already been explained in this thread that the insurance companies report to the State the insurance status of vehicles, and suspends the registration if there is EVER a lapse of insurance on a particular VIN. This means that if I've got a vehicle with no liens on it that I choose to not drive for a while and take the insurance off of it while it sits in my driveway, the registration becomes automatically suspended and I need to pay a reinstatement fee to the State after I decide to put insurance back on it and take it back out onto the public roadways. They're supposed to notify you when they do this, but they never notified me. In the State's defense (in this case), I was military at the time and suspect that I no longer lived at the vehicles registered address. The ONLY time I enforce the Suspended Registration code section is if the violator also CURRENTLY does not have insurance. I think that's fair. The fine for no insurance in my jurisdiction is roughly $300. I think folks driving without insurance should be taken to jail, but since can't take them to jail, I hit them with the Suspended Registration ticket as well. I guess we can take solace in that the suspended registration law is better than it used to be. Used to be that when you had an insurance lapse they suspended your drivers license and thats a trip to jail. At least suspended registration is a ticket and maybe a tow (our agency does not tow for only suspended registration, others may). |