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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/3/2005 8:24:42 AM EDT
I took my first shooting trip to the pit yesterday. It was fun, but was it warm out there! We spent about two and a half hours and went though 800 rounds. I had a little trouble with my new Remington 597 .22cal rifle. It was having a hard time cycling back and I had to eject several rounds. I am not sure if it was the rifle or the ammo. I was leaning towards the ammo, Federal red box .

The Bushy worked ok, but I could tell difference between that and the colt. I had a real hard time hitting 7 of 9 ( 6’ cardboard cut-out) from 25 yards. I had no trouble hitting the targets out on the far hill. Those bowling pins are cool to shoot.

My brother was on from Yonkers and he had fun. He named the cardboard cut-out his X wife’s name and had a blast blowing it full of holes. It was cool seeing him say Ohhhh Shitttt when he seen the riding mower that was cut to pieces.

I can see some improvements to make to my bushy. Overall I was impressed with the out of the box sights. It took me three shots, to split the bowling pin from the rocks to the back berm.

In the future I will take a little table to load on and load as many mags as I can the night before. I might buy one of those LULA, that was a lot of rounds to hand load.
One thing that surprised me was all the glass. It may just be me, but I would have thought there would be less.
Thanks to who ever brings the bowling pins, we thought thy ewer the best things to shoot at.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:36:43 PM EDT
Loading mags beforehand is defintely a good thing to get in the habit of doing


P.S. You're welcome for the pins... You should have been there when we were rolling the bowling balls out there
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:10:28 AM EDT
IIRC transporting loaded rifle mags is the same as transporting a loaded rifle.
I would not do it.
Get a Lula mag loader & load up once you get there. It goes pretty fast.

Under VEAR, rifles must be unloaded in chamber and magazine. Also, rifles must be transported in a container separate from ammunition.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:47:44 AM EDT
Hijacking this thread a little....

Can anyone cite a situation where anyone was arrested or even ticketed for having loaded detached magazines seperate from the firearm?

G_22, you did cite Vear, and that's good work, but I just don't think it was meant to apply to detached magazines. The question is, has this ever been proven one way or another in the system?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:49:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 4:50:10 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By G_22:
IIRC transporting loaded rifle mags is the same as transporting a loaded rifle.
I would not do it.
Get a Lula mag loader & load up once you get there. It goes pretty fast.

Under VEAR, rifles must be unloaded in chamber and magazine. Also, rifles must be transported in a container separate from ammunition.



Where did you see that?
I do know about transporting rifles unloaded in a compartment of the vehicle that isn't easy to access from the passenger area (i.e. trunk) but never heard about loaded magazines detached from the firearm.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:53:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 5:54:02 AM EDT by G_22]
A past thread about it:
http://www.mgouc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8252

And:
324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon
vehicle
; transporting bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm.
Sec. 40111.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not take an animal from in or upon a vehicle.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not transport or have in possession a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat.

(3) Except as otherwise provided in this part, a person shall not transport or have in possession a bow in or upon a vehicle, unless the bow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in the trunk of a vehicle.

(4) A person shall not hunt or discharge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.
History: Add. 1995, Act 57, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1995.

There are other areas within the law that state the same thing.
I was advised by an attorney not to do it. It is a grey area in the law.
I was also reminded by a Wayne Co. Deputy in my carbine class last weekend that it was a no-no.

Of course you could always take your chances.
I don't know of any current cases that may have been decided upon in this matter.
I'm just letting you guys know what I've been told. (and what is written in the law).
Make your own decisions. I've made mine!!

Heres a link from the MIDNR about transporting:
http://tinyurl.com/4kpd7

Heres a link to Michigan Firearms Laws:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

Once you have it open, do a find "ctrl f" and type in "transport".
It will find every place the term transport in cited in the laws.
At the bottom of Adobe there is a pair of binoculars with an arrow, hit it to go the the next citing of "transport". It will take you through the whole document and show you all instances of the word "transport". And hopefully prove my point.

Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:56:46 AM EDT
wow, what a PITA. Whomever wrote these stupid laws and regs must really love their bolt-guns.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:09:18 AM EDT
Yes, a PITA is exactly what it is.

I just don't want to see any of my fellow ARFCOMers being a test case.
I would err on the side of caution.


Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:52:16 AM EDT
Thanks, G_22, for providing all this.

The link to the DNR Q&A section provides the answer that I was looking for. ..."the Office of Attorney General was asked about the legality of transporting a loaded magazine removed from the firearm in an enclosed case. They opined that a person need not unload the magazine for legal transport provided the firearm itself is unloaded in the barrel and the magazine is removed."

Whenever I get myself into these mental gymnastics with regard to the letter of the law, I remind myself what a friend taught me about the "Reasonable Man Philosophy"; would a jury of my peers find the action reasonable?

I'm willing to bet (my own choice/decision) that this will never make it to a court.

By the way, I am NOT disrespecting the intent of the law (unloaded firearms), or G_22's research and decision. I hope that I haven't come across that way.

Chuck
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:54:14 AM EDT
I am only 10 miles or so from the pit. I would take my chances. As long as I am not driving at 90 miles an hour, I have a nice little back road crusie to get there.

I did aask a local law enforcement officer about it over coffee and his comment was if the weapons are in one case and the mags are in a seperate one, most officers would not ahve a problem with it.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:18:57 AM EDT

By the way, I am NOT disrespecting the intent of the law (unloaded firearms), or G_22's research and decision. I hope that I haven't come across that way.

Chuck



Nope, you didn't come across that way at all.
Just a friendly civil discussion.h=85%

I am only 10 miles or so from the pit. I would take my chances. As long as I am not driving at 90 miles an hour, I have a nice little back road crusie to get there.

I did aask a local law enforcement officer about it over coffee and his comment was if the weapons are in one case and the mags are in a seperate one, most officers would not ahve a problem with it.



Its good to see some LEO's exercising common sense.

Take care all,
Kevin
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 2:49:55 PM EDT
I'm an ex-Michigan LEO. I believe when I was at College for CJ we had a talk about this.
IIRC, the interpretation is the FIXED magazine or tubular mag that cannot be detached from the weapon.
A mag loaded, transported with inaccessible ammunition is still pretty much just more ammunition.

Hope my .02 helps!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:23:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I'm an ex-Michigan LEO. I believe when I was at College for CJ we had a talk about this.
IIRC, the interpretation is the FIXED magazine or tubular mag that cannot be detached from the weapon.
A mag loaded, transported with inaccessible ammunition is still pretty much just more ammunition.

Hope my .02 helps!



sure does! Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 4:54:32 AM EDT
ok i have a little first hand on this subject. I was headed to a friends farm to let the air out of some woodchucks and got pulled over. had the bushy in the case in my trunk and had 2 loaded mags in the case with the rifle. because i also had my mossberg 835 with me i had a bandolier of 12 gauge on my pass seat- this warrented the question if i had a firearm in my veh. anyhow... when the leo opened the cases he cleared the chambers to make sure they were unloaded, so i asked him if the loaded mags were a problem and he said it was ok as long as the firearms themselves were empty. maybe this was just this leo but thats my story.
Link Posted: 8/6/2005 9:58:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By psebowhunter:
ok i have a little first hand on this subject. I was headed to a friends farm to let the air out of some woodchucks and got pulled over. had the bushy in the case in my trunk and had 2 loaded mags in the case with the rifle. because i also had my mossberg 835 with me i had a bandolier of 12 gauge on my pass seat- this warrented the question if i had a firearm in my veh. anyhow... when the leo opened the cases he cleared the chambers to make sure they were unloaded, so i asked him if the loaded mags were a problem and he said it was ok as long as the firearms themselves were empty. maybe this was just this leo but thats my story.

how did you do on the woodchucks?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 10:48:55 PM EDT
I think I need to get back out to the pit... Weekdays off are fun :)
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:52:07 AM EDT
i did alright, i got 2 that day( they were running hay). no pics thoughhat
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 11:59:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2005 12:08:05 PM EDT by No_Expert]
So, um.... where exactly is the pit located ?


edited: oops, disregard, I found the map AFTER posting.

must have had a blond moment.
No Expert

Redford, MI
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