Destructive Devices

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Destructive Devices

Posted: 8/11/2011 10:59:04 AM EDT

Destructive devices are legal for individual ownership in NY, correct?

Posted: 8/11/2011 11:31:31 AM EDT

[#1]

There was a guy at one time referbing flame

throwers in Syracuse!

Posted: 8/11/2011 11:34:55 AM EDT

[#2]

I was thinking about picking up a MK19 kit but I'm not sure if it would be possible to convert it to 37mm.

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:12:16 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
There was a guy at one time referbing flame

throwers in Syracuse!

Last I checked, flame throwers were not NFA restricted destructive devices and no registration was required of them..

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:35:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There was a guy at one time referbing flame

throwers in Syracuse!

Last I checked, flame throwers were not NFA restricted destructive devices and no registration was required of them..

This is what I had heard too.

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:38:38 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Destructive devices are legal for individual ownership in NY, correct?

That's a vague question. New York has no such class of weapon under the Penal Law and therefore each type of item must be looked at individually.

20mm rifles, like the Solothurn or Lahti, would be legal.

M203 and M79 grenade launchers are of very questionable status due to their potential of being considered SBRs.

Mortars and cannons are probably OK but likely to bring trouble.

Grenades, incendiaries and explosive bombs are obviously a no-no.

Just what did you have in mind??

Posted: 8/11/2011 1:46:53 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Destructive devices are legal for individual ownership in NY, correct?

That's a vague question. New York has no such class of weapon under the Penal Law and therefore each type of item must be looked at individually.

20mm rifles, like the Solothurn or Lahti, would be legal.

M203 and M79 grenade launchers are of very questionable status due to their potential of being considered SBRs.

Mortars and cannons are probably OK but likely to bring trouble.

Grenades, incendiaries and explosive bombs are obviously a no-no.

Just what did you have in mind??

MK19 40mm

I am going to look into a 37mm conversion for it but would like to know that it would be NY kosher in case I can't find a 37mm solution and I have to keep it as a 40mm.

The barrel is 16.25" so I would be clear of the SBR issue.

Posted: 8/11/2011 2:04:09 PM EDT

[#7]

Assuming you are serious how are you going to get around the fact it is full auto?

Posted: 8/11/2011 2:11:37 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Assuming you are serious how are you going to get around the fact it is full auto?

Assume I am serious.

A semi auto FCG can be designed for it. Ohio Rapid Fire had designed a semi FCG for the kits.

Posted: 8/11/2011 3:20:26 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Assuming you are serious how are you going to get around the fact it is full auto?

Assume I am serious.

A semi auto FCG can be designed for it. Ohio Rapid Fire had designed a semi FCG for the kits.

Make sure you look into the link situation as if you have more than 10 rounds linked together it will be a LCAFD under NYS law. A buddy ran into the same problem w/ a semi auto RPK.

Posted: 8/11/2011 3:28:21 PM EDT

[#10]

the links need to be preban, no shitting on this one.

Posted: 8/11/2011 3:32:20 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
the links need to be preban, no shitting on this one.

The MK19 has been in service since 1968 so there's plenty of preban links.

Posted: 8/11/2011 4:34:18 PM EDT

[#12]

I can have a flame

thrower! Yet an adjustable stock on an ar makes me a dangerous

felon. Im proud of our state legislators, keep up the good work guys

.

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:13:38 PM EDT

[#13]

Is it the fact that the ammo is 40mm or that the arm itself is 40mm?
I'm thinking that adaptors could be made to allow 37mm to be fed throiugh the MK19

BTW: you've got to stop watching "Sons of Guns"

Posted: 8/11/2011 5:18:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Is it the fact that the ammo is 40mm or that the arm itself is 40mm?
I'm thinking that adaptors could be made to allow 37mm to be fed throiugh the MK19

BTW: you've got to stop watching "Sons of Guns"

Did they have one on the show?

The problem lies with the bolt, it's 22lbs! The MK19 uses high pressure rounds, not low pressures like the M203, etc. so I'm not sure if you can load a chalk round hot enough to cycle the action.

Posted: 8/11/2011 7:31:47 PM EDT

[#15]

AWSOME!!

Posted: 8/11/2011 8:38:59 PM EDT

[#16]

The problem lies with the bolt, it's 22lbs! The MK19 uses high pressure rounds, not low pressures like the M203, etc. so I'm not sure if you can load a chalk round hot enough to cycle the action.

We have TP rounds for the Mk19 at work, but in addition to the chalk they have a small marking charge and a large metal core (slug) to give the round the proper trajectory. I'm sure the marking charge would make those rounds a no-no for personal use in NY. You could always cast the rounds out of lead!

Posted: 8/12/2011 2:04:39 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

The MK19 has been in service since 1968 so there's plenty of preban links.

And most of those go back to the ASP with the dunnage when the range is cold. Mk19 links are not something that generally get held onto so that you'll find a ton of pre-'94 links for whatever project you have in mind. I suppose that if they're still digging WW II 50 cal ammo out for use that there might be some really old Mk19 ammo somewhere that you might occasionally stumble across, but what are the odds?

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:25:15 AM EDT

[#18]

Go to Knob Creek. They sell tons of high pressure 40mm practice rounds, much of them already linked.

In fact, I'd wager a guess that high pressure Mk.19 practice ammo is easier to come by than low pressure M203/M79 practice ammo at this point. Not many people have the means to discharge Mk.19 ammo.

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:31:57 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Go to Knob Creek. They sell tons of high pressure 40mm practice rounds, much of them already linked.

In fact, I'd wager a guess that high pressure Mk.19 practice ammo is easier to come by than low pressure M203/M79 practice ammo at this point. Not many people have the means to discharge Mk.19 ammo.

The practice rounds wouldn't have to be registered as DDs @ $200 a piece, am I right?

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:36:30 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
The practice rounds wouldn't have to be registered as DDs @ $200 a piece, am I right?

Inert, non-explosive marking rounds filled with orange chalk. No stamps necessary to purchase.

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:40:45 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The practice rounds wouldn't have to be registered as DDs @ $200 a piece, am I right?

Inert, non-explosive marking rounds filled with orange chalk. No stamps necessary to purchase.

Perfect, that's what I thought.

I'll have to check out Grog's site to confirm that these can be reloaded.

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:58:53 AM EDT

[#22]

Ironically enough, I watch the armorers repairing MK19's all the time, but the only one I ever really paid attention to was one the KB'd critically injuring a Soldier.

If you can supply ammunition, someone will figure out a way to set it off.

Posted: 8/12/2011 6:16:45 AM EDT

[#23]

Sounds like it will be a challenge to keep running consistantly.

That said, DO IT

Posted: 8/12/2011 8:05:47 AM EDT

[#24]

I remember the ATF stating that chalk rounds while legal, once fired even in 37mm it becomes an act of using a destructive device.
Though I could be wrong, I just remember seeing that somewhere

Posted: 8/12/2011 8:11:44 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I remember the ATF stating that chalk rounds while legal, once fired even in 37mm it becomes an act of using a destructive device.
Though I could be wrong, I just remember seeing that somewhere

I'll google around and see what I can find. Since 40mm practice rounds don't have to be registered as DDs @ $200 a pop I will probably just keep it as a 40mm. I just have to decide if I really want to cough up a few K to do this build.

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:15:15 PM EDT

[#26]

Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

Posted: 8/12/2011 5:17:15 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

I have an AK I'm selling now, once that sells I'll be buying the parts kit. I'm not sure how long it will take me to find a receiver and a way to convert it from full auto to semi and find rounds that will work for it. In addition to having to wait to get my approval back from the ATF since I'll have to register it as a DD. How many acres do you have to shoot on?

Posted: 8/12/2011 9:00:13 PM EDT

[#28]

LMAO More than that will shoot across. I own 1600 acre. No lie, I have a farm east of albany. Lots and lots of land and "lets see where this one lands". I only have a 600 yard range set up now, I will clear the woods out to 800 when it cools off in a month.

Posted: 8/12/2011 9:02:18 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
LMAO More than that will shoot across. I own 1600 acre. No lie, I have a farm east of albany. Lots and lots of land and "lets see where this one lands". I only have a 600 yard range set up now, I will clear the woods out to 800 when it cools off in a month.

If I go ahead with the purchase and the build, which I plan to do as long as I can sell my AK then I'll definitely be in touch!

Posted: 8/12/2011 9:05:07 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

I have an AK I'm selling now, once that sells I'll be buying the parts kit. I'm not sure how long it will take me to find a receiver and a way to convert it from full auto to semi and find rounds that will work for it. In addition to having to wait to get my approval back from the ATF since I'll have to register it as a DD. How many acres do you have to shoot on?

i think the problem with this would be the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule.

Posted: 8/12/2011 9:05:24 PM EDT

[#31]

Sounds great! Cant wait.

Posted: 8/13/2011 5:31:57 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

I have an AK I'm selling now, once that sells I'll be buying the parts kit. I'm not sure how long it will take me to find a receiver and a way to convert it from full auto to semi and find rounds that will work for it. In addition to having to wait to get my approval back from the ATF since I'll have to register it as a DD. How many acres do you have to shoot on?

i think the problem with this would be the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule.

How would this be any different than any other parts kit?

Posted: 8/13/2011 5:36:46 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

LMAO More than that will shoot across. I own 1600 acre. No lie, I have a farm east of albany. Lots and lots of land and "lets see where this one lands". I only have a 600 yard range set up now, I will clear the woods out to 800 when it cools off in a month.

Can you be my new best friend?

Posted: 8/13/2011 6:25:37 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

I have an AK I'm selling now, once that sells I'll be buying the parts kit. I'm not sure how long it will take me to find a receiver and a way to convert it from full auto to semi and find rounds that will work for it. In addition to having to wait to get my approval back from the ATF since I'll have to register it as a DD. How many acres do you have to shoot on?

i think the problem with this would be the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule.

Since it's a new receiver "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" doesn't apply.

The problem is, I don't know if there is an "ATF approved" semi automatic design. If you aren't using an approved design you run the risk of them deciding you did not do a "good enough" job converting it to semi only., and that it could be "easily" converted back to full auto = machine gun. Plus, the Mk19 fires from an open bolt, and that is a no no for semi autos. You would have to make it fire from a closed bolt, which may be difficult.

Posted: 8/13/2011 6:29:50 AM EDT

[#35]

Are the 37mm flare launchers firearms? If not, what would it matter that it was FA? (Assuming you went 37mm that is. Since the low pressure rounds won't cycle it, it wouldn't be FA anyway)

Posted: 8/13/2011 6:30:32 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Man I will so host and cater the range party when you get that! That bad ass

bad man boomer! Woot Woot! Go for it.

I have an AK I'm selling now, once that sells I'll be buying the parts kit. I'm not sure how long it will take me to find a receiver and a way to convert it from full auto to semi and find rounds that will work for it. In addition to having to wait to get my approval back from the ATF since I'll have to register it as a DD. How many acres do you have to shoot on?

i think the problem with this would be the "once a machine gun always a machine gun" rule.

Since it's a new receiver "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" doesn't apply.

The problem is, I don't know if there is an "ATF approved" semi automatic design. If you aren't using an approved design you run the risk of them deciding you did not do a "good enough" job converting it to semi only., and that it could be "easily" converted back to full auto = machine gun. Plus, the Mk19 fires from an open bolt, and that is a no no for semi autos. You would have to make it fire from a closed bolt, which may be difficult.

This is the info I'm looking into now. ORF had a semi-auto design but I'm not sure if it was ever ATF approved. I would hate to spend the money to build this gun and then find out its not good to go.

Posted: 8/13/2011 6:31:10 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Are the 37mm flare launchers firearms? If not, what would it matter that it was FA? (assuming you went 37mm that is)

No, 37mm are not firearms. I'm not sure about the FA issue with those. It's something I've wondered myself.

Posted: 8/13/2011 1:58:34 PM EDT

[#38]

Hey Rich... looks like they're gonna suppress one of those on this weeks "Sons of Guns"...

sounds like this:

Posted: 8/13/2011 2:25:57 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Hey Rich... looks like they're gonna suppress one of those on this weeks "Sons of Guns"...

sounds like this:

I shoot on Wednesday nights so I won't be able to see it. Maybe I'll set the DVR.

Posted: 8/13/2011 6:02:58 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

LMAO More than that will shoot across. I own 1600 acre. No lie, I have a farm east of albany. Lots and lots of land and "lets see where this one lands". I only have a 600 yard range set up now, I will clear the woods out to 800 when it cools off in a month.

Can you be my new best friend?

Just IM or email me when you want to shoot. Ive got plenty of places.

Posted: 8/13/2011 11:44:42 PM EDT

[#41]

Ya know IF you could buy 40mm grenades, I could see a resurgence in break-action single shot launchers......maybe something like a mortar tube for practice, maybe even a scaled up bolt rifle. (the Germans scaled up a Mauser to shoot a round similar to the .50BMG)
Hunters used to use 4 and 8 gauge shotguns for commercial Duck hunting, plus there were punt guns and swivel guns......'course they're outlawed for hunting game, but I'd bet they were a hell of a blast to shoot!
37mm = 1.46" and 12ga. is ~.750" oh, I can see trouble coming!

I'll have to look back over the laws: it wouldn't be all that difficult to turn a shell case out of aluminum or brass stock, trick is the payload....shooting a 1,300gr. load is going to have some serious recoil.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Destructive Devices

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