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Thanks for the heads-up. Copied Below: Civilian Service Rifle Newsletter – January 2008 As you are well aware Civilian Service Rifle (CSR) has been growing, outside of the NRA Imperial Matches, for over 3 years. The discipline is proving to be popular and investment from the NRA/NSC is now becoming more forthcoming (electric targets / range space). It is against that background and a desire to take the sport forward that a Discipline Sub-Committee has been formed, comprised of a cross section of shooters who use a variety of different rifles. The members are: Robert Wightman Mark Vizard Martin Camp Steven Beard Jeremy Hogarth Nigel Greenaway Mark Dougan Mark Bradley Richard Seddon George Ellis Dave Green Our aim is to promote the sport and take the discipline further; we hope to be able to offer some better weather (summer) shooting this year, all be it with limited opportunities for run-downs! With the increase in interest in the sport, we also felt that certain rules needed to be addressed. Unfortunately these are necessary since the more popular the sport, the more gamesmanship seams to creep in and sometimes tempers fray and shooters ultimately do not enjoy the day. The rules are very simple in nature and seek to allow the main group of scoped rifles to shoot in either a ‘basic’ class or a ‘technology’ class. We do not want the sport to become a money buys points affair, yet at the same time we want to be able to let shooters try out new technology in the form of optics, rests and ammunition. We are also looking at limiting the amount of run-downs to one match per day and wherever possible continue to include an ‘Old Soldier’ option. Following your feedback, we are trying to introduce a ‘Fixed Fee’ for the day, with a separate Meeting Fee for those non-NRA members. The summary of the new rules follows, for clarification the existing rules are valid until the publication of the 2008 Bisley Bible. In the meantime, shooters are encouraged to switch across to the new rules ASAP! Summary of the rule changes for the 2008 Season: Shooting Jackets: 'Any jacket or combination of clothing designed or intended to provide support to the body is not permitted. Padding or soft material for the purposes of protection or comfort may be used in the following places (i) on the shoulder (ii) on the elbows (iii) on the upper arm. This padding may be affixed internally or externally to a loose fitting jacket of any design or style having a lightweight, single thickness outer, provided that the combination of the padding and jacket does not provide support to the upper body. Strap-on elbow (and knee pads) may be worn.' Explanatory note: in practice this means that modern medium and heavy weight purpose-designed canvas, leather or synthetic shooting jackets are prohibited. Likewise the wearing of excessive layers of clothing, the effect of which is to restrict upper body movement (and thereby provide support), is not permitted. An UK MIL issue sniper smock will be allowed. Sling keepers will be allowed. Triggers: Trigger testing will be used this year. The weights are based on existing military rules and limits taken from TR. There will only be 2 weights. 1.5kg for the Practical Optic Class and 4.5lbs for all other classes. Once your rifle has been checked a coloured sticker will be applied, this will be enough for the season. However, random checks will be carried out throughout the year. If your rifle does not pass the trigger test, you will be allowed to shoot, subject to it making a minimum of 1.5kg, you will not be eligible for prize lists. Optics: To keep the costs to new shooters down and to promote marksmanship, there will be a 4.5X magnification limit on riflescopes used in the Service Optic Class. If you have a variable power scope, you may continue to use that scope however, it must only be used at 4.5X power or less. Ammunition: To cater for those who do not home-load, a separate award will be made those using commercial or surplus ball (FMJ) ammo in the Service class. Class changes for 2008 Practical Optic 1) No restriction on slings or rests 2) Bipods can be used, but must remain fitted at all times 3) Vertical fore grips may be used, but must remain fitted at all times 4) Trigger weight 1.5Kg minimum 5) No restriction on Optic sights Service Optic 1) No restriction on slings 2) Magazine resting is allowed; no part of the wrist of the supporting arm must touch the ground. 3) Vertical Fore Grips are prohibited 4) Bipods are prohibited 5) Trigger weight 4.5lbs minimum 6) Optic sights maximum magnification of 4.5X Historic becomes Service Enfield Any Iron remains the same. Thanks for your continued attendance at these matches! Without support we will not be able to increase the availability of these shoots throughout the year. Future dates for competitions are: February 16th CSR AM Century 200 & 300 yards PM Stickledown Butt Zero PM March 2nd CSR AM Century 300 yards PM Century 500 to 100 yards March 16th Sniper Rifle Match AM Century 600 yards PM Stickledown 900 & 1000 yards |
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Here's a link: CSR Newsletter Good to see all the misinformation and uncertainty is now put to bed with a clear brief on where the discipline is going. Well done to the Sub-Committee. 
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I have just phoned Fulton's to get them to "up" the trigger pull on the L39A1 they are preparing for me the for "any iron". hinking.gif At least the information is out now which can only be good news. |
No idea, don't undrstand the rationale behind that one as the AUG is fitted with one. However the "Sub-Committee" has deemed it so which now means it has had a little more scrutiny and consideration than before. |
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Nothing in Pamphlet 20 about vertical foregrips. In the ARA Methuen and International competitions abroad there are no restricitions on foregrips; it is purely an NRA (UK) rule, but as it's been through the "Discipline Sub-Committee" it must be generally accepted as the way to go in the "Service Rifle" category.
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Why don't the Omani's or the Kiwi's use theirs then? |
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Because not all 'as Issued' Service Rifles can accommodate a Vertical Grip. Hence in CSR the Service Optic follows that rule and the Practical Optic allows their use. In all British Military competitions, both NRA and ARA, the use of a vertical grip is prohibited. There is nothing in Pam 20 because, the L85A2 is not fitted with a vertical grip; why would a UK military National shooting rule book include a rule on an item of equipment that is not standard fit on a UK rifle 
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I've saw Kiwi's using them in 2006; the 2006 version of the Bible only prohibited the vertical foregrip in "Civilian Service Rifle and Practical Rifle" (page 1/33 para 242 (h)) But there is no point debating further as we now have a clearly accepted rule. |
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It will be interesting to see how many people move over to the 'practical optics' class from the service optic class, now that theres a scope power limit of 4.5. Anyone willing to make a guess ? Its good to see an award for those using bog standard factory ammo too. Cheers Steven |
It's covered under Rule 243, they should not have been using them. All the Military teams were also briefed accordingly, before the start of the competition. |
I don't mind, as long as there are shooters taking part! It will hopefully bring some of the Armalon only shooters into the matches ETA You can still shoot in the Service class with a variable scope as long as it is set on 4.5X or less. |
Well despite that, I saw and challenged a Kiwi in 2006, it was checked by the Senior Army RCO and I was told to get back in my box as the Bible said "Civilian Service Rifle and Practical Rifle" therefore not military. That is why we need the clarity that we have now, well sort of anyway. When the changes worked up by the Sub-Committee are incorporated in the Bible the whole document needs to be checked so that any contradictions and anomalies are addressed, that way there will be no argument or disappointment amongst the competitors. Briefing people before a shoot starts is too late, not all people always get the brief, understand it or comply. The good work started needs to be seen through and checked before the Bible goes to print, do it once and get it right first time.
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+1 The more the merrier IMO. |
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There is no 5.56 class As for slings, there is no restriction, although in my opinion (and my opinion only) it must be a conventional 2 point.It does not need to be attached at both ends and can be used as a single point but should be of the 2 point design and can be either leather, canvas web type or nylon etc |
The important point is highlighted in blue above. The current UK Service Rifle is provided with a sling purely to attach the weapon to your body and is not utilised to provide support whilst shooting. What has more of an effect on the usefulness of a sling is how it is attached to the barrel of your rifle, there are quite a few AR's in use that have free float tubes fitted, this allows a shooter a significant benefit in that the sling can be fitted very tight and not affect the barrel or POI. What will cause you trouble and may be looked at by the Discipline Sub-Committee in due course is if the type of sling you are using gives you any significant advantage over any other shooter. FWIW I think that it makes no odds what type you use, its whether or not you are proficient in using it. Your proficiency is dependant on knowing how to position and adjust it to suit your shooting style. Highpower shooting forces you to learn how to use a sling correctly in both sitting and prone positions; especially true in rapid fire where the time to recover your POA following shot release is limited by the clock. |
Any sling is acceptable. There are too many types of rifle and sling out there to be prescriptive in a class of 'Any Iron'. With regard to a 5.56 class; Anything is possible, in the future, if there are significant numbers of competitors all shooting the same 'type' of rifle. At the moment the number of iron sight shooters don't warrant an class division. |
I find that an odd bit of reasoning, as there generally isn't much correlation between scope power and price (ignoring quality of course). An ACOG costs a lot more than the 10x Super Sniper or say a MTC Viper or similar. To promote marksmanship I can understand as a reason to set a limit and agree with that aspiration |
Actually the best promoter of marksmanship is to learn to use iron sights, if you can master them then optics is a breeze. 
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Fixed 10X scope at 100yds... ....Good luck MTC viper 3-12X44IR BLACK Hunting / HFT £219 C / M / SW3/SS 8-32X60IR BLACK Hunting / FT £299 C / / SW6/SS I would say £80 saved on your one example........ .... As well as promoting skill. (That's around an extra 400 rounds to practise with) If you compare similar models within a brand, 99% of them are going to be cheaper the more simply they are built. If you compare different brands, then quality and application of use come into play, and that is a whole different ball game! |
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As 'Historic' is now 'Service Enfield', does that mean that other similar pre '45 rifles are in 'Any Iron'? I know a few shooters that want to try CSR, two have Enfields and the third has a Mauser K98. If it is the case, the Mauser shooter could well be up against a match-sighted AR, rather than the more comparable Enfields. (I should say that I don't know what class the Mauser would have been in under the 'old' classes, but am comparing it to the Highpower Veteran/Classic classes.) |
Mausers (k98) would be in the Any Iron. As, historically only Enfields have entered the Historic Class, 10 round magazine! If sufficient numbers of historic non-enfields enter, then accommodation could be made available in the future. By tradition, each country only ever allowed its own service rifle in the final stages of any competition. Unless you were a foreign national, shooting with his nation's service, then you should be shooting a Snider-Enfields, Enfield-Martinis, Martini-Enfields, Lee-Enfields SMLE (No.1), No.3 (P14) or No.4. That's the Service Rifle tradition throughout. The whole point of Service Rifle is that it's a form of "standard Rifle". If the NRA were to open its doors (breaking tradition) to "any service rifle", then we'd be back to the absurd situation of a few medal-baggers using Swedish Mausers and in breach of the spirit of the event. ...after all, I can't imagine the French equivalent of the NRA permitting the SMLE in their "mad minute" equivalent. So, it is appropriate to restrict the British national Historic service rifle competition of THIS nation. |
What is the magazine capacity of a K98? I don't think its 10 rounds which is probably why we have not seen that many of them used, without a 10 round capacity they are severely disadvantaged. If they had been seen more regularly then perhaps they would have a class of their own. 
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Correct, see above |
and as for CQB 100 - 25 yds 
Which is why I'm now using 3.5x - 10x