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Posted: 10/3/2004 3:14:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:49:20 AM EST by M4SS109]
these are the pistols Im interested in buying. Im leaning toward a Sig226R in 9 or 40 but wanted more input.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:21:15 AM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:04:20 AM EST
I have owned a few of each, I prefer Glocks. Go to a range where they rent guns and shoot them all for yourself.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:05:47 AM EST
Good advice, what works for me will likely as not be wrong for you. Try everything for yourself first.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:27:15 AM EST
No question its the 1911. U.S. Army CAG, U.S. Marines Force Recon+Det1, FBI HRT and regional SWAT teams, and LAPD SWAT all seem to agree.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:17:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 1:18:07 PM EST by M4SS109]
army/marines also use the m9
seals use sig226
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:42:48 PM EST
army/marines use the M9
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 2:01:00 PM EST
Depends what works best in your hand. Some like Glocks, but the grip feels terrible in my hand. Doesn't mean they're bad. May be great for you, and they go bang every time. Never fired a USP. Seem robust, but awfully clunky. I carry 1911 and variants (Commander size or Officer Size), depending on circumstances. BTW, I carry hammer down. After many years of this, I can draw and cock as fast as anyone else can draw and drop a safety. Not something I would recommend you teach yourself in 15 minutes and then rely on. Find what fits you best, practice with it. Then practice some more. Proper Practice Prevents Poor Performance . (modified for cleanliness)
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 2:01:19 PM EST
H&K has the coolest advertising and marketing machine.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:04:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:17:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)



Thats some seriously incorrect information.



+1

You guys are WAY off base.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:18:49 PM EST
Any of those would make a good tactical pistol. It's what suits you and fits you best.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:20:51 PM EST
I like HKs, they are accurate as hell, and very reliable, in my experience.

A 1911 that's been commando'ed up is pretty tactical as well.

Glockheads love glocks, their marketing machine is second to none. I had one, couldn't sell it fast enough.

Sigs are used by alot of police departments, and FBI for a while too, IIRC.

Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:21:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)



Thats some seriously incorrect information.



Please do tell me then. The warrior was designed after a pistol that was made ONLY available for law enforcement, which group of LE is it??????

It's what I read out of "Guns and Ammo", Im not making this shit up.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:24:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:29:17 PM EST
didnt think sig would be at the bottom
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:36:14 PM EST
I own all four choices and all four are great handguns, like the other guys have said look at all four and then select the handgun that best fits you. My HK USP Tactical with a CCF flashhider is the best of the four for me...but everyone has their likes and dislikes.
Or buy all four and then you don't have to choose
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:54:12 PM EST
Might be hard to get on, BUT try to get the DAK system for the 226R. It is DA only and breaks at 6.5 lbs. crisp. Shot a demo model 2 weeks ago. SWEET!
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:41:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
army/marines use the M9
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)



I dunno, most Ive been around still use M9's.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:49:10 PM EST
So I would be correct in saying that special "type" forces(SOCOM) use the M1911.
Thank you.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:51:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:16:47 PM EST
Awww. come on let me be right.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:53:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 7:11:40 PM EST by M4SS109]
Thanks guys! Now, Im totally confused
was going to go for the sig226R in 40cal and get a bar-sto 9mm ported barrel
but now Im thinking of a SA or Kimber or Wilson 1911 (45ACP)

what 1911 do you recommend?
where do you get your 45 reloading components?
What mods should be made to it?

Im still trying to figure out if I want the 1911 or sig226R 40 cal
Dont like polymer guns so the glock and HK-USP are out.
I like the sig226R (stainless) 40cal because I can drop in the 9mm bbl and practice all day long with cheep 9mm ammo while having the power of a 40-JHP at home
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:18:23 PM EST
You can't go wrong. Get them all
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:48:43 PM EST
Go with a Kimber 1911.
The TLE II will be my next handgun.
I think a firearm that has been around since WWI is worthy.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:23:55 PM EST


Originally posted by M4SS109

these are the pistols Im interested in buying. Im leaning toward a Sig226R in 9 or 40 but wanted more input.
Posted :: 10/3/2004 8:14:48 AM


Included in the poll are HK USPs and Glocks


Originally posted by M4SS109

Dont like polymer guns so the glock and HK-USP are out.
Posted :: 10/3/2004 11:53:23 PM



Anyone else confused
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:46:12 AM EST
Just buy whatever pistol that your favorite super duper tactical ninja type unit supposedly uses, and then invest all of your manhood in that particular pistol being better than all others. When someone says that it might not be best for everybody or for every need, then react like they are trying to cut off your penis. Because clearly that gun is the best one ever, and no other pistol will ever do for anything, and anyone who would say otherwise is a giant liar.

That's what lots of folks on message boards do, with great success.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:52:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)



Thats some seriously incorrect information.



Indeed.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:55:09 AM EST
Any of these pistols are fine quality and should serve you well. They will all shoot more accurately then the shooter ever will.

As to which one is better that is going to be specific to you, the shooter. The one that is better for me, is not necessarily the one that is better for you. You would be best served by the earlier suggestion of going to a range that rents them, and try them for yourself.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:58:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Just buy whatever pistol that your favorite super duper tactical ninja type unit supposedly uses, and then invest all of your manhood in that particular pistol being better than all others. When someone says that it might not be best for everybody or for every need, then react like they are trying to cut off your penis. Because clearly that gun is the best one ever, and no other pistol will ever do for anything, and anyone who would say otherwise is a giant liar.

That's what lots of folks on message boards do, with great success.



What?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:00:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Just buy whatever pistol that your favorite super duper tactical ninja type unit supposedly uses, and then invest all of your manhood in that particular pistol being better than all others. When someone says that it might not be best for everybody or for every need, then react like they are trying to cut off your penis. Because clearly that gun is the best one ever, and no other pistol will ever do for anything, and anyone who would say otherwise is a giant liar.

That's what lots of folks on message boards do, with great success.



What?



Twas a joke, man. A little levity never hurt anyone.

Except if you have broken ribs, and then levity might hurt a lot.

Or Kill.

Whatever.

Now I am depressed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Buzzkill.

Now my whole day is gonna suck.

I hope you are happy.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:03:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 4:06:15 AM EST by SITNLO]

Originally Posted By M4SS109:
didnt think sig would be at the bottomhr


+1

Federal Air Marshalls use the 229 in .357 and I think the Secret Service does too.

Seriously though, all the guns mentioned are top quality. I would try and stay towards the Kimber, Springfield side when selecting a 1911 (colt, S&W, etc are good too)
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:33:05 PM EST
If Glock and HK are out Then I would buy a SIG.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:44:39 PM EST
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:12:11 PM EST
I have owned (own) one of each. My HK USP45 gives me wood.h.gif
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:26:36 PM EST
1911 or Glock , in no paticular order! Love them both
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:04:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK




Based on........hold on, still laughing.......Ok, I'm better now...... based on what ??


I have two USPs, a SIG and 1911s, of those the HK is my favorite but not by much.
My 1911s are great as are my SIGs, never a problem with any.
As for glocks, I have had four over the years and sold them all. No issues other than I just didn't like how they felt or shot.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:33:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By M4SS109:
didnt think sig would be at the bottom



SIG's only on the "bottom" of a silly (relatively speaking) intarweb poll, bro.

Any of those in the hands of a shooter would nicely complete a world-class weapons system.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:59:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
No question its the 1911. U.S. Army CAG, U.S. Marines Force Recon+Det1, FBI HRT and regional SWAT teams, and LAPD SWAT all seem to agree.



Damn, I think this is the second time I've agreed with Va_Dinger. One of us must be smoking something . . .
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:01:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Msokol13:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:
Special forces use kimber 1911 type(warrior civilian version)



Thats some seriously incorrect information.



Please do tell me then. The warrior was designed after a pistol that was made ONLY available for law enforcement, which group of LE is it??????

It's what I read out of "Guns and Ammo", Im not making this shit up.



LAPD SWAT.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:10:47 PM EST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Based on........hold on, still laughing.......Ok, I'm better now...... based on what ??


Based on a Sigs have DA/SA or DAO trigger, really high wrist to bore axis, which means LOTS of muzzle climb, and they have a prissy finish to the metal.


HK USPs have a crappy DA/SA Trigger (only redeemable feature is you can get it with Cocked and Locked option) They have a HIGH wrist to bore Axis which results in ALOT of muzzle climb USP feels very jerky when being fired. HK finish isnt as tough as a Glock


1911 has superior pointability, can be purchased from companys that do not mark up product $200 because they have a fancy name (not that this doesnt happen with 1911s) 1911s have a superior single action trigger pull, is very fast on target repeatedly.

Glock has extremely tough finish, has decent 1 and a 1/2 action trigger has extremely low wrist to bore axis which translates into a much more controllable weapon that is smoother on target, if glock had a single action 1911 like trigger they would rule the handgun world IMHO oh yeah and interchangable grip panels er at least backstraps
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:13:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK





'nuff comment on that dumbassed remark.

I have a bunch of Sigs, a bunch of 1911s, a Glock and an HK USP 40. Out of all of them the HK and the Sig 226 are my two favorites. Don't ask me to pick! The others I like very well and I carry a Kimber daily. You would be well served by any of the pistols you've mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:24:22 PM EST
Depends on what your opinion is on what a handgun should due, to me a handgun should be able to place alot of multiple hits on multiple targets in a very short time frame 2 of the 4 are much more capable of that than the other 2, which is why Glocks and 1911s rule in the gun game world... are there other pistols out there that can do it, yes but not as often if the Glock had a better trigger it would all teh time, and the same things that make them good in gun games ( I am talking stock class not mods that tend to be unreliable) are the same things that make them good for SHTF
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:49:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Based on........hold on, still laughing.......Ok, I'm better now...... based on what ??


Based on a Sigs have DA/SA or DAO trigger, really high wrist to bore axis, which means LOTS of muzzle climb, and they have a prissy finish to the metal.


HK USPs have a crappy DA/SA Trigger (only redeemable feature is you can get it with Cocked and Locked option) They have a HIGH wrist to bore Axis which results in ALOT of muzzle climb USP feels very jerky when being fired. HK finish isnt as tough as a Glock


1911 has superior pointability, can be purchased from companys that do not mark up product $200 because they have a fancy name (not that this doesnt happen with 1911s) 1911s have a superior single action trigger pull, is very fast on target repeatedly.

Glock has extremely tough finish, has decent 1 and a 1/2 action trigger has extremely low wrist to bore axis which translates into a much more controllable weapon that is smoother on target, if glock had a single action 1911 like trigger they would rule the handgun world IMHO oh yeah and interchangable grip panels er at least backstraps




www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html
www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3132
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:46:03 PM EST
Disclaimer: I do not own or like Glocks, although I am sure they have their merits. These observations are based solely on my own experiences with firearms that I own and use frequently.

I have several Kimbers, including a TLE, a TLE-RL, and a Tactical Pro. They are my favorite guns to shoot.

I also have several USPs. They are my favorite guns to clean.

I am a bit hung up on the word 'tactical', as it is entirely too subjective. I interpret tactical to mean the following:
1. Low Maintenance.
USP wins hands down here. Gets cleaned every few weeks, gets treated like a red-headed
step child, and still goes bang every time.
2. High Reliability.
Again, USP. Goes bang every time. Not particularly sensitive to ammo type or brand.
3. Accuracy.
Going to go with the 1911 on this one. I shoot it better. It points better for me.
The USP is no slouch, but I am better and faster with the 1911.
4. Concealability.
I don't consider this to be of major significance in a 'tactical' pistol. Of the two, the 1911 is
far more concealable.
5. Capacity.
Definitely the USP, unless you have a thing for eight feet of magazine sticking
out the bottom of your pistol (not that there's anything wrong with that). USPs have
a 4 round advantage over 1911s (12+1 vs 8+1). More bullets means more chances.

So, I would say that in terms of maintenance, reliability, and capacity, the USPs have the edge in the 'tactical' department. I doubt you'd go wrong with any of your options, though.

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:06:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
No question its the 1911. U.S. Army CAG, U.S. Marines Force Recon+Det1, FBI HRT and regional SWAT teams, and LAPD SWAT all seem to agree.



Damn, I think this is the second time I've agreed with Va_Dinger. One of us must be smoking something . . .




Link Posted: 10/5/2004 8:57:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Depends on what your opinion is on what a handgun should due, to me a handgun should be able to place alot of multiple hits on multiple targets in a very short time frame 2 of the 4 are much more capable of that than the other 2, which is why Glocks and 1911s rule in the gun game world... are there other pistols out there that can do it, yes but not as often if the Glock had a better trigger it would all teh time, and the same things that make them good in gun games ( I am talking stock class not mods that tend to be unreliable) are the same things that make them good for SHTF



+1.

The DA/SA guns "give it up" in the most critical shot: the first one.

I like to shoot "one on one" pistol duels while plinking with my friends. My brother-in-law's buddy had a stable of sidearms, many DA/SA autos. But he always started the duel cocked. I pointed out to him that it wasn't a realistic starting point, but he continued shooting that way. I guess competing effectively was more important than learning the proper use of his chosen firearms.

How many people with DA autos practice DA shooting?
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:18:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 10:04:04 AM EST by _DR]
dupe
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 9:22:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/5/2004 12:00:09 PM EST by _DR]

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK




Pure, utter and complete nonsense.

A Glock over a SIG or HK?




Link Posted: 10/5/2004 12:41:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Sigs and HKs suck big time, 1911 or Glock I would go GLOCK




Pure, utter and complete nonsense.

A Glock over a SIG or HK?





I don't care for the Glock grip angle, so I'd probably choose a SA HK over the Glock.

The SIGs are nice once you get past that initial DA shot. However, that first shot is probably the most important, so I would pass on the SIG.

Link Posted: 10/5/2004 2:48:15 PM EST
Forget the Glock, you shouldn't even consider a striker and besides they are WAYYYY over priced for what they are. I donn't like the feel of Sigs. HK will have to win out over a 1911 for the fact that you have a better out of box reliability with all ammunition. That and the fact the USP's point and group almost laser accurate for me. I know it's plastic but they make a damn fine tool.
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