Posted: 12/14/2006 11:03:17 AM EDT
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Hey boys and girls. First post, but I've been a lurker here for at least a couple of years. Bar -none, hands down my favorite gun board on the internet. Mostly because you can say "fuck" here without getting kicked, banned, hunted down via your ISP and shot to death. Really, how can people be so up on the 2nd amendment and so down on the first? Boggles my mind. Anyhoo, I'm gonna be buying another gun here pretty soon, and I'd like some advice on the matter. I've narrowed down my choices to three different guns in three different calibers, all of which I like for their own special reasons. My choices are... Beretta 92 HK USP .45 S&W 1006 I'd include a poll, but I don't see how to. This gun'll be for general carry. Note that weight is not an issue, nor is size, I'm a pretty big guy and my EDC is either a Glock 20 or a CZ-75, depending on my mood. I do someday hope to own all three, but I'm wondering which one I should buy first, so no smarmy "BUY THEM ALL LOLz0rs!!1!!!111" replies, please. I look forward to hearing the best that ARFCOM has to offer. :D A. |
Of the choices, I have only shot the Beretta. Good shooter. Grip was too big for me. I'm a XD45 kool aid drinker. I have a XD45 Service and a XD45 Tactical. I like them both very well. There is also a XD45 compact with a shorter grip that isn't bad either. ZM |
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The 1006 is a no-go due to a dearth of parts. Will it work? Sure, but if you want 10mm there are better choices (Witness, Glock, 1911). I enjoy shooting my 92FS, but it's too big for a 9mm, and way too big for a CCW. I'm not a big HK fan, but the USP .45, variant 1, is what I would pick out of the three for carry. Reasoning: - as a 1911 fan, I like cocked & locked carry. - Sights are dovetailed: night sights easily installed... not as much with 92FS. - .45 ACP!!!!1! w00t! - durable and reliable |
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I like Taurus guns, so take this FWIW: The safety on the Taurus 92 is frame mounted (where God and John Browning decided it should go), and I like that much better than the Berettas with the slide mounted safety. In almost all other ways, they are the same gun, and they both shoot great. You won't get many votes for the Smith Autos around here, especially the older ones. |
No relation to the seller, yadda yadda, but heres one for 2k... www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=62474694 |
+1 as a CCW gun h/w, they are all kinda bulky...but an HK w/ the match trigger gets my vote |
| I would not personally choose any of your selections for CCW, but of the three (I have owned all 3 and shot the Beretta and HK extensively and owned three different S&W 10mms...my favorite is the 1076...all of which I put several hundred rounds thru) I would choose the HK first then the Beretta. |
I my gosh, I can't stand it any more!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're going to tell me the HK USP is smaller than the 92???? It's way too big for CCW but th USP isn't. Have you lost it? Maybe I just don't know the dimensions, but first off, people carry the 92, secondly I doubt it's bigger than the USP. I have an M9 and reeeeeaaaalllllllllllllly like it. I think I'd like the USP too but I've never shot one. I don't know anything about that 3rd one. |
I don't have my USP anymore, but they're about the same size. The USP may be a tiny bit thinner in the grip, but bulkier up top. The USP is definitely lighter. The thing is, if you're going to carry a big ass gun, make it worthwhile. |
| Having owned a 92 and a 1006 I would buy another 1006 any day. They are reliable and powerful and not as bulky to me. The Beretta just feels like a big chunk of metal for such a small cartridge. I've handled but never shot a USP45. I did own a USP40 but was about as impressed with it as I was the Beretta. |
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I've considered getting a USP .45 a few times myself. And although I think they're nice, I've never gotten one. A fellow arfcomer took me to the range with his and I tried one out. I wasn't very impressed even with the single action trigger. The ergonomics were fine, but nothing special. But recoil was noticeably increased for some reason. In addition, I really dislike the fact that you have to pay $50 for a regular capacity magazine. Parts are also expensive. If H&K won't support us, why should we support them? I like to have at least 20 mags per pistol, so I'd be looking at $1000 bucks in accessories!! I'm not a big S&W auto fan. I did shoot one of their 9mms though and was very impressed by it. It shot very well. But they just don't do much for me. I do own a Beretta M9/92FS and LOVE that pistol. It's my favorite 9mm and second-favorite pistol that I own. Recoil is incredibly tame. It's amazingly accurate -- I can clover-leaf a target at 25 yards with little effort. The single action trigger is as close to a 1911s as I've found. The DA pull kind of sucks, but with a hammer spring changeout, smooths out nicely. I've compared my Beretta's DA pull to the Sig's and the Beretta's is nicer IMO. Mags and parts are cheap and plentiful. It also points very naturally for me. It's downsides are the size (which isn't a problem for you and isn't for me either) -- I find the ergonomics quite nice for me. The slide-mounted European-style safety is a bit of a problem for me. The finish is ok, but it wears easily. In summary, I WILL be getting another M9 as backup to my baby. I VERY HIGHLY recommend this pistol. It's second only to my Wilson in my eyes and the finest production pistol made. |
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I own or have access to everything up there but the Smith. Including a Beretta, Glock and a CZ like you already own. The HK USP 45, provided the grip size doesn't bother you, offers the most versatility and the best accuracy of all the pistols you listed. It is atleast as reliable and durable as the Glock, which is a FINE weapon in and of itself. Aside from the few minor quirks of the design that you can either live with or cannot, the USP is the finest firearm out there right now. Since the Glock grip size obviously doesnt bother you, and the trigger hasn't scared you away, I beleive the "quirks" of the USP would be a total non-issue to you, and it gets my vote. |
+1 to everything he said (especially the reliability), plus I believe HK's are the fastest reload out there. Ergonomically everything works well with that pistol, IMHO. |
I would consider 18 rounds of 9mm ready to go worthwhile. But I realize that some do not agree. |
MecGar make 17 rounders and so does Beretta (for the new Ninety-Two, but they're interchangeable). Keep up with the times.  FWIW, my stock M9 mags will fit 16. But they're really tight if you're inserting on a forward slide. But they'll go. So that's 17 with the factory 15 rounders. 
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Guess that shows you how much attention I pay to what Beretta's doing these days -- and this is coming from a guy who sold his USP and still has a 92FS. The 92 is an adequate gun and I wouldn't feel unarmed with it. But frankly I have been spoiled by SAO guns and feel that DA/SA is an answer looking for a problem. The USP is a great gun if it works for you... it didn't for me, and it's gone. The OP says that size is not a problem for his CCW gun. It is a problem for me and that's one of the biggest reasons I wouldn't carry one (or a full size 92FS). I did carry a 96 Compact for a while, when I was shooting it a lot and had trained myself to shoot DA/SA. |
The mecgars have been around for a long time though. FWIW. The ninety-two's are of recent. I know people don't like the pistol for various reasons. But in my opinion, alot of the reasons are things that people just keep saying over and over again. I really like the pistol. I'm accurate with it, it is about as comfortable as they get, not that others aren't, but because it is a little big for a 9, you can really let the rounds go with little recoil, and alot of control. And with little practice, they are easy to get used to. Some call it a ladies gun because of all those aspects, I call it hard not to like when it puts rounds where you want them to go. I like .45's. But I don't really dislike 9mm's. I think there are good enough rounds out there for self defense. There are alot of good pistols out there. And I think it's one of them. So I defend it where I can. On the downsides, I'm not a huge fan of DA/SA but I prefer it over glock action with no safety at all. And I have a tenency to ride the slide stop sometimes. But that's me. On the DA pull, it's good enough for CQB and I think it's another thing people make too much of a fuss over. If you shoot it enough, you get used to it. If I could take everything I like about the 1911 and the M9 and put them together, I think it would be a great pistol. I think WilsonCQB agrees with me on that one, maybe.  I just reread your edit, it seems as though we do agree somewhat after all.  Because I do think SAO is the better of the 2.
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that is it right there.I carry the USP 45 everyday and it is the one for me.people complain about the trigger but it is good to me I hit what I aim for.and I also like popin in another mag on reload and the slide goes home from inserting the mag. |
Oh yeah -- I'm with you 100%. As I said above, the Beretta is second only to my $2k custom Wilson . I LOVE it.
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If Beretta made a SAO version of the 92 with a thumb safety............. I'd have a few. The handgun I got that has the most rounds through it is the 92. Its never malfed, ever. Its accurate as all hell, and with a few spring swaps, has one of the best triggers on a SA/DA I've ever felt. The Grip IS smaller on the 92 in terms of circumfrence, I just compared it to my TAC. Overall though, they are very similar in size. Both are great guns, but I take the USP every time because of its thumb safety, and the fact that it goes up with the hammer locked back  Like i said though, for 9mm, a SAO 92 WOULD make its way into my gunsafe, and would probably be a serious contender for my go-to 9mm. |
Of the options you list, I would pick the USP .45 simply because of the .45ACP cartridge it fires. The USP is a decent enough platform, but my USP's were never that impressive. My advice would be to consider a good 1911 like the Kimber Warrior. A good 1911 is about the best handgun you can possibly own for personal defense, carry, and general merriment. The Beretta 92 is a good handgun. I own a few variations of the 92 and they have always been very reliable for me. |