Posted: 11/10/2025 8:23:32 PM EDT
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Gun Sam does a lot of ballistic Gel tests on YT and has been for years. His top 10 recommended .38 spl. snub loads based on what he's seen in his testing. He still has Hornady Critical Defense 110+P as his number one. Tied with that is the Buffalo Bore Lead free Barnes 110 gr.+P Tac-XP. He was pretty impressed with penetration and expansion. But due to lack of availability, he gave it the number 2 spot. I got a box of these from Cor-bon. I remember when these copper bullets were the rage, and just kind of fell away. I use mine for my reloads, as they have a pointy tip that should aid with loading into a cylinder. I think I have a box of everything he talks about. And have actually been carry the Federal Hydra-shok Deep, which didn't do so well in his testing. WC's didn't make his list (he does mention them). Some of his info. may contradict the Lucky Gunner chart. I know the late Paul Harrell was also a Critical Defense fan based on the meat target tests he used to do. Agree/disagree, your choice. Just posting for information.  The TOP TEN .38 Special SNUB NOSE Loads I Would Carry in 2026! (Tested/Proven) BB Tac-XP  1. Hornady CD 110 gr.+P - He's tested it a ton and it's always consistent & available. 2. BB 110 gr.+P Tac-XP Lead free (technically tied for first, but limited availability). 3. Win. Defender/PDX 1 130 gr. +P 4. Speer GD Short Barrel 135 gr +P 5. BB or Underwood 158 gr. +P LHP (Almost .357 mag level) 6. BB 158 gr. LHP 7. Federal Hydra-Shok 110 gr. 8. Fed Hydra-Shok Deep 130 gr. +P 9. Fed. 120 +P Punch 10. Underwood 110 gr. Extreme Defender (not recommended) Honorable mentions: Rem HTP 110Gr. +P SJHP/Rem HTP 158 gr. +P LHP |
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Is there still any love for the FBI load? The 158 Lead Semi-WadCutter Hollow Point +P? When I carry a 38, its my go to load based on old cops feedback from decades ago. I rarely carry a 38 anymore. My old J frames S&W are almost too collectible to sweat on every day and A Glock just takes a beating and keeps on working for a carry gun. I have a Stainless 65 that is a great woods gun being stainless. Usually carry some old FBI +P 38 in it and carry some shot shells. For some reason I just bought some +P Federal Hydro shock HP from aim for $20/50 box. Not a bad price for any 38 special factory ammo. Must be it too is not as sought after load it once was, but for nearly the price of range fodder lead round nose, I'll use it. |
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Quoted: Is there still any love for the FBI load? The 158 Lead Semi-WadCutter Hollow Point +P? When I carry a 38, its my go to load based on old cops feedback from decades ago. I rarely carry a 38 anymore. My old J frames S&W are almost too collectible to sweat on every day and A Glock just takes a beating and keeps on working for a carry gun. I have a Stainless 65 that is a great woods gun being stainless. Usually carry some old FBI +P 38 in it and carry some shot shells. For some reason I just bought some +P Federal Hydro shock HP from aim for $20/50 box. Not a bad price for any 38 special factory ammo. Must be it too is not as sought after load it once was, but for nearly the price of range fodder lead round nose, I'll use it. Those were number 5 (+P version) & number 6 (BB non +P version) on his list. The BB +P version is pretty much a light .357 mag in there loading. I've got both version and use the non +P for older non +P rated J frames. Back it the day, that was the carry load & on par with .45 acp ball ammo per an author I've read. And it's still a winner out a 4" and was my duty ammo back in the 90's. |
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I have some boxes of +p+ SJHP Winchester Q4232 stuff that was given to me [110 grain] by a retired cop that had zero info anywhere [and I looked for hours to include the Winchester site] when it came to the stock number. That shit is pretty damn hot. It may not be .357 but it's not far from it. You will never find it listed anywhere. |
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Quoted: I have some boxes of +p+ SJHP Winchester Q4232 stuff that was given to me [110 grain] by a retired cop that had zero info anywhere [and I looked for hours to include the Winchester site] when it came to the stock number. That shit is pretty damn hot. It may not be .357 but it's not far from it. You will never find it listed anywhere. Quoted: I have some boxes of +p+ SJHP Winchester Q4232 stuff that was given to me [110 grain] by a retired cop that had zero info anywhere [and I looked for hours to include the Winchester site] when it came to the stock number. That shit is pretty damn hot. It may not be .357 but it's not far from it. You will never find it listed anywhere. Sounds like the old Treasury load, although that's not the code for it. Maybe some kind of upgrade or variation. Then and now, it was standard practice at Winchester to add a “Q” prefix to the product code of loads developed for law enforcement and military contracts. As a result, the load developed for the Treasury Department’s Secret Service was given the product code, “Q4070.” Ammo Evolution: .38 Special Treasury Load |
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Quoted: Sounds like the old Treasury load, although that's not the code for it. Maybe some kind of upgrade or variation. Ammo Evolution: .38 Special Treasury Load Quoted: Quoted: I have some boxes of +p+ SJHP Winchester Q4232 stuff that was given to me [110 grain] by a retired cop that had zero info anywhere [and I looked for hours to include the Winchester site] when it came to the stock number. That shit is pretty damn hot. It may not be .357 but it's not far from it. You will never find it listed anywhere. Sounds like the old Treasury load, although that's not the code for it. Maybe some kind of upgrade or variation. Then and now, it was standard practice at Winchester to add a “Q” prefix to the product code of loads developed for law enforcement and military contracts. As a result, the load developed for the Treasury Department’s Secret Service was given the product code, “Q4070.” Ammo Evolution: .38 Special Treasury Load Yeah, I looked that up and the Treasury load is really the only 110 grain SJHP +p+ out there Winchester-Olin did [4169/4170] Pretty plain white box with black lettering, same Treasury load warning on the flap. Ammo and box are marked with the +P+ markings. I've shot some .357 that didn't have as much Oomph. I burned 1/2 box thru a Colt Trooper MKIII and a couple rounds thru a Marshal but I won't do the marshal Again. Not enough grip and even though it's a full sized frame with a 2'' barrel, I'm pretty sure more then a few rounds wouldn't be good for it. No way it'll see use in my Chiefs or Dick specials or anything with a LW frame in .38 special. |
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Quoted: Curiosity. I will presume the balance of expansion, penetration and availability. Not everyone likes listening to these type of you tube videos. Sure. But you'll miss the nuances. 1. Hornady CD 110 gr.+P - He's tested it a ton and it's always consistent & available. 2. BB 110 gr.+P Tac-XP Lead free (technically tied for first, but limited availability). 3. Win. Defender/PDX 1 130 gr. +P 4. Speer GD Short Barrel 135 gr +P 5. BB or Underwood 158 gr. +P LHP (Almost .357 mag level) 6. BB 158 gr. LHP 7. Federal Hydra-Shok 110 gr. 8. Fed Hydra-Shok Deep 130 gr. +P 9. Fed. 120 +P Punch 10. Underwood 110 gr. Extreme Defender (not recommended) Honorable mentions: Rem HTP 110Gr. +P SJHP/Rem HTP 158 gr. +P LHP |
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Quoted: Yeah, I looked that up and the Treasury load is really the only 110 grain SJHP +p+ out there Winchester-Olin did [4169/4170] Pretty plain white box with black lettering, same Treasury load warning on the flap. Ammo and box are marked with the +P+ markings. I've shot some .357 that didn't have as much Oomph. I burned 1/2 box thru a Colt Trooper MKIII and a couple rounds thru a Marshal but I won't do the marshal Again. Not enough grip and even though it's a full sized frame with a 2'' barrel, I'm pretty sure more then a few rounds wouldn't be good for it. No way it'll see use in my Chiefs or Dick specials or anything with a LW frame in .38 special. This is what GROK AI came up with on that SKU. The Winchester Q4232 designation appears to be an internal or older SKU (stock keeping unit) reference for a specific load in Winchester’s Ranger T-Series law enforcement ammunition line. This is a high-performance variant of .38 Special +P+ (over-pressure beyond standard +P levels) designed primarily for self-defense and duty use. It’s loaded with a 110-grain Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullet, which provides controlled expansion and reliable penetration for stopping power. Note that while SJHP bullets are sometimes listed interchangeably with JHP in product descriptions, the semi-jacketed design exposes more lead for faster expansion while retaining a partial copper jacket for penetration stability. This load is known as the “Treasury Load” in some historical contexts, originally developed for Federal agents seeking maximum velocity from short-barreled revolvers. It’s engineered for revolvers rated for +P+ pressures (typically modern .38 Special firearms; older or aluminum-framed guns may not handle it safely). Availability can be sporadic, as it’s geared toward professional and bulk buyers, often sold in 50-round boxes or 500-round cases. |
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Ive loaded some real hot 160Gr hp that are akin to BB mentioned at number 5. 1160-1200 FPS out a model 66. Full blown h110 loaded magnums with the same bullet pushes 1300 FPS for reference. More of a +P++ load imho. Great K frame or greater. Would never want those rounds in my j frame. My simple what I would call +P 38 load which is 900 FPS with the same bullet mentioned is pretty punishing and pushes the POI real high for me on my 642. I use wad cutters because its the only thing I can shoot out of the thing and be accurate with |
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Quoted: This is what GROK AI came up with on that SKU. The Winchester Q4232 designation appears to be an internal or older SKU (stock keeping unit) reference for a specific load in Winchester’s Ranger T-Series law enforcement ammunition line. This is a high-performance variant of .38 Special +P+ (over-pressure beyond standard +P levels) designed primarily for self-defense and duty use. It’s loaded with a 110-grain Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullet, which provides controlled expansion and reliable penetration for stopping power. Note that while SJHP bullets are sometimes listed interchangeably with JHP in product descriptions, the semi-jacketed design exposes more lead for faster expansion while retaining a partial copper jacket for penetration stability. This load is known as the “Treasury Load” in some historical contexts, originally developed for Federal agents seeking maximum velocity from short-barreled revolvers. It’s engineered for revolvers rated for +P+ pressures (typically modern .38 Special firearms; older or aluminum-framed guns may not handle it safely). Availability can be sporadic, as it’s geared toward professional and bulk buyers, often sold in 50-round boxes or 500-round cases. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, I looked that up and the Treasury load is really the only 110 grain SJHP +p+ out there Winchester-Olin did [4169/4170] Pretty plain white box with black lettering, same Treasury load warning on the flap. Ammo and box are marked with the +P+ markings. I've shot some .357 that didn't have as much Oomph. I burned 1/2 box thru a Colt Trooper MKIII and a couple rounds thru a Marshal but I won't do the marshal Again. Not enough grip and even though it's a full sized frame with a 2'' barrel, I'm pretty sure more then a few rounds wouldn't be good for it. No way it'll see use in my Chiefs or Dick specials or anything with a LW frame in .38 special. This is what GROK AI came up with on that SKU. The Winchester Q4232 designation appears to be an internal or older SKU (stock keeping unit) reference for a specific load in Winchester’s Ranger T-Series law enforcement ammunition line. This is a high-performance variant of .38 Special +P+ (over-pressure beyond standard +P levels) designed primarily for self-defense and duty use. It’s loaded with a 110-grain Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullet, which provides controlled expansion and reliable penetration for stopping power. Note that while SJHP bullets are sometimes listed interchangeably with JHP in product descriptions, the semi-jacketed design exposes more lead for faster expansion while retaining a partial copper jacket for penetration stability. This load is known as the “Treasury Load” in some historical contexts, originally developed for Federal agents seeking maximum velocity from short-barreled revolvers. It’s engineered for revolvers rated for +P+ pressures (typically modern .38 Special firearms; older or aluminum-framed guns may not handle it safely). Availability can be sporadic, as it’s geared toward professional and bulk buyers, often sold in 50-round boxes or 500-round cases. Interesting, GROK seems to be using the Q in the Q4232 to go back to LEO ammo which it likely is [and the retired cop said it was] and yes, they are in 50 round boxes. I'd suspect they may have used that SKU for a very short time and then changed to something else quickly. Only ammo that spec'ed out was the T load, the type, weight, and +P+ of the round sorta gave that away but it's interesting it shows up nowhere on line or on paper. |
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Quoted: Interesting, GROK seems to be using the Q in the Q4232 to go back to LEO ammo which it likely is [and the retired cop said it was] and yes, they are in 50 round boxes. I'd suspect they may have used that SKU for a very short time and then changed to something else quickly. Only ammo that spec'ed out was the T load, the type, weight, and +P+ of the round sorta gave that away but it's interesting it shows up nowhere on line or on paper. I’ve been pretty impressed with GROK’s knowledge recently. When I first started using it, I found more errors. But it’s gotten better over time. Here’s the rest of it’s answers I didn’t post originally: Key Specifications • Caliber: .38 Special +P+ • Bullet Weight: 110 grains • Bullet Type: SJHP (Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point) – promotes rapid expansion (typically 1.5–2x diameter) while penetrating 12–18 inches in ballistic gel, per FBI standards. • Muzzle Velocity: Approximately 1,155 fps (from a 4-inch barrel; expect 900–1,000 fps from 2-inch snubbies). • Muzzle Energy: Around 326 ft-lbs – about 10–15% more than standard +P loads, delivering enhanced stopping power. • Casing: Nickel-plated brass (corrosion-resistant, reloadable). • Primer: Boxer (non-corrosive). • Packaging: Commonly 50 rounds per box; bulk cases of 500 (10 boxes). • UPC/SKU Variants: Often cross-referenced as RA38110HP (Ranger standard) or similar; Q4232 may be a discontinued or regional code. Performance and Use Cases This ammo excels in self-defense scenarios due to its high velocity and flat trajectory relative to its weight class. In ballistic testing (e.g., through four layers of denim into 10% ballistic gelatin): • Penetration: 13–15 inches – ideal for stopping threats without over-penetration risks. • Expansion: Reliable mushrooming to ~0.55–0.60 inches, even through heavy clothing. • Recoil: Snappier than standard .38 Special (comparable to light .357 Magnum loads), but manageable in full-size revolvers like S&W Model 10 or Ruger GP100. In lightweight snubbies (e.g., S&W J-frame), it can feel stout – practice is recommended. It’s praised for: • Reliability: Welded case-to-bullet construction minimizes bullet setback in semi-autos or revolvers. • Accuracy: Groups under 2 inches at 15 yards from tested revolvers. • Versatility: Suitable for concealed carry, home defense, or duty; performs well suppressed if your firearm allows. User feedback highlights its “investment-grade” status for defense – one reviewer called it “the best defense ammo available” for its expansion in gel tests. However, it’s not ideal for casual plinking due to cost and recoil. Availability and Pricing As of recent listings: • Retailers: Often found at Lucky Gunner, BulkAmmo, or AmmunitionToGo (when in stock). Bulk 500-round cases are common for LE buyers. • Price: ~$0.80–$1.20 per round (50-round box: $40–$60; 500 rounds: $400–$600). Prices fluctuate; check for rebates on winchester.com. • Status: Semi-discontinued for civilian sales but still produced for LE. If Q4232 specifically is hard to find, equivalents like Winchester Silvertip 110gr JHP (+P, not +P+) offer similar performance at milder pressures. Safety Notes • Confirm your firearm is +P+-rated (e.g., via manual or manufacturer). Over-pressure can stress older guns. • Store in a cool, dry place; shelf life is 10+ years if unopened. • Always follow local laws for purchase/transport. For the latest stock or specs, visit Winchester’s LE site (winchesterle.com) or search retailers directly. If this isn’t the exact load you meant, provide more details! |
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Quoted: I’ve been pretty impressed with GROK’s knowledge recently. When I first started using it, I found more errors. But it’s gotten better over time. Here’s the rest of it’s answers I didn’t post originally: Key Specifications • Caliber: .38 Special +P+ • Bullet Weight: 110 grains • Bullet Type: SJHP (Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point) – promotes rapid expansion (typically 1.5–2x diameter) while penetrating 12–18 inches in ballistic gel, per FBI standards. • Muzzle Velocity: Approximately 1,155 fps (from a 4-inch barrel; expect 900–1,000 fps from 2-inch snubbies). • Muzzle Energy: Around 326 ft-lbs – about 10–15% more than standard +P loads, delivering enhanced stopping power. • Casing: Nickel-plated brass (corrosion-resistant, reloadable). • Primer: Boxer (non-corrosive). • Packaging: Commonly 50 rounds per box; bulk cases of 500 (10 boxes). • UPC/SKU Variants: Often cross-referenced as RA38110HP (Ranger standard) or similar; Q4232 may be a discontinued or regional code. Performance and Use Cases This ammo excels in self-defense scenarios due to its high velocity and flat trajectory relative to its weight class. In ballistic testing (e.g., through four layers of denim into 10% ballistic gelatin): • Penetration: 13–15 inches – ideal for stopping threats without over-penetration risks. • Expansion: Reliable mushrooming to ~0.55–0.60 inches, even through heavy clothing. • Recoil: Snappier than standard .38 Special (comparable to light .357 Magnum loads), but manageable in full-size revolvers like S&W Model 10 or Ruger GP100. In lightweight snubbies (e.g., S&W J-frame), it can feel stout – practice is recommended. It’s praised for: • Reliability: Welded case-to-bullet construction minimizes bullet setback in semi-autos or revolvers. • Accuracy: Groups under 2 inches at 15 yards from tested revolvers. • Versatility: Suitable for concealed carry, home defense, or duty; performs well suppressed if your firearm allows. User feedback highlights its “investment-grade” status for defense – one reviewer called it “the best defense ammo available” for its expansion in gel tests. However, it’s not ideal for casual plinking due to cost and recoil. Availability and Pricing As of recent listings: • Retailers: Often found at Lucky Gunner, BulkAmmo, or AmmunitionToGo (when in stock). Bulk 500-round cases are common for LE buyers. • Price: ~$0.80–$1.20 per round (50-round box: $40–$60; 500 rounds: $400–$600). Prices fluctuate; check for rebates on winchester.com. • Status: Semi-discontinued for civilian sales but still produced for LE. If Q4232 specifically is hard to find, equivalents like Winchester Silvertip 110gr JHP (+P, not +P+) offer similar performance at milder pressures. Safety Notes • Confirm your firearm is +P+-rated (e.g., via manual or manufacturer). Over-pressure can stress older guns. • Store in a cool, dry place; shelf life is 10+ years if unopened. • Always follow local laws for purchase/transport. For the latest stock or specs, visit Winchester’s LE site (winchesterle.com) or search retailers directly. If this isn’t the exact load you meant, provide more details! Quoted: Quoted: Interesting, GROK seems to be using the Q in the Q4232 to go back to LEO ammo which it likely is [and the retired cop said it was] and yes, they are in 50 round boxes. I'd suspect they may have used that SKU for a very short time and then changed to something else quickly. Only ammo that spec'ed out was the T load, the type, weight, and +P+ of the round sorta gave that away but it's interesting it shows up nowhere on line or on paper. I’ve been pretty impressed with GROK’s knowledge recently. When I first started using it, I found more errors. But it’s gotten better over time. Here’s the rest of it’s answers I didn’t post originally: Key Specifications • Caliber: .38 Special +P+ • Bullet Weight: 110 grains • Bullet Type: SJHP (Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point) – promotes rapid expansion (typically 1.5–2x diameter) while penetrating 12–18 inches in ballistic gel, per FBI standards. • Muzzle Velocity: Approximately 1,155 fps (from a 4-inch barrel; expect 900–1,000 fps from 2-inch snubbies). • Muzzle Energy: Around 326 ft-lbs – about 10–15% more than standard +P loads, delivering enhanced stopping power. • Casing: Nickel-plated brass (corrosion-resistant, reloadable). • Primer: Boxer (non-corrosive). • Packaging: Commonly 50 rounds per box; bulk cases of 500 (10 boxes). • UPC/SKU Variants: Often cross-referenced as RA38110HP (Ranger standard) or similar; Q4232 may be a discontinued or regional code. Performance and Use Cases This ammo excels in self-defense scenarios due to its high velocity and flat trajectory relative to its weight class. In ballistic testing (e.g., through four layers of denim into 10% ballistic gelatin): • Penetration: 13–15 inches – ideal for stopping threats without over-penetration risks. • Expansion: Reliable mushrooming to ~0.55–0.60 inches, even through heavy clothing. • Recoil: Snappier than standard .38 Special (comparable to light .357 Magnum loads), but manageable in full-size revolvers like S&W Model 10 or Ruger GP100. In lightweight snubbies (e.g., S&W J-frame), it can feel stout – practice is recommended. It’s praised for: • Reliability: Welded case-to-bullet construction minimizes bullet setback in semi-autos or revolvers. • Accuracy: Groups under 2 inches at 15 yards from tested revolvers. • Versatility: Suitable for concealed carry, home defense, or duty; performs well suppressed if your firearm allows. User feedback highlights its “investment-grade” status for defense – one reviewer called it “the best defense ammo available” for its expansion in gel tests. However, it’s not ideal for casual plinking due to cost and recoil. Availability and Pricing As of recent listings: • Retailers: Often found at Lucky Gunner, BulkAmmo, or AmmunitionToGo (when in stock). Bulk 500-round cases are common for LE buyers. • Price: ~$0.80–$1.20 per round (50-round box: $40–$60; 500 rounds: $400–$600). Prices fluctuate; check for rebates on winchester.com. • Status: Semi-discontinued for civilian sales but still produced for LE. If Q4232 specifically is hard to find, equivalents like Winchester Silvertip 110gr JHP (+P, not +P+) offer similar performance at milder pressures. Safety Notes • Confirm your firearm is +P+-rated (e.g., via manual or manufacturer). Over-pressure can stress older guns. • Store in a cool, dry place; shelf life is 10+ years if unopened. • Always follow local laws for purchase/transport. For the latest stock or specs, visit Winchester’s LE site (winchesterle.com) or search retailers directly. If this isn’t the exact load you meant, provide more details! Yeah, it looks like it matches up to the Ranger RA38110HP+ perfectly velocity wise. Looks to still be a pretty potent .38 special carry load. Appreciate your time, thanks!!!!!!! |
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As someone who likes to shoot older Colt 38’s, I’d like to see a top 10 which excludes +P’s Additionally, a “low recoil “ list would be good too. Like 110 ish grain. A lot of these YouTube vids I’ve been seeing shows these light loads doing just fine, as in “good enough” to get the job done |
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Quoted: As someone who likes to shoot older Colt 38’s, I’d like to see a top 10 which excludes +P’s Additionally, a “low recoil “ list would be good too. Like 110 ish grain. A lot of these YouTube vids I’ve been seeing shows these light loads doing just fine, as in “good enough” to get the job done There is a list, just not a top 10: .38 Special Ballistic Test Results And here's some discussion from the author: Low Recoil .38 Special Options The popularity of lightweight snub nose revolvers has many shooters in search of a .38 Special load with reduced recoil. The Hornady 90 gr Critical Defense Lite was probably the mildest hollow point we tested, but I was not impressed with its shallow penetration averaging around 11”. Expansion was consistent but limited with an average of .44”. Federal’s 110 gr Hydra Shok Low Recoil load had slightly better penetration, but even less expansion than the Hornady Lite. The standard pressure version of Hornady’s 110 gr Critical Defense is not advertised as a low recoil load, but could easily pass for one. Its performance was similar to the Hornady Lite, except with sufficient expansion at just over 14” with both barrels. The Winchester Train and Defend mentioned above was also a light recoiling load with good performance. My personal favorite reduced recoil load is one that’s easy to overlook: the Winchester 148 gr Super-X lead wadcutter. This load easily had the least amount of felt recoil out of all the guns we tested, yet it penetrated to about 16” out of both test barrels. None of the bullets expanded, but they are not designed to. As I explained in my wadcutter article last year, the sharp shoulder of the wadcutter bullet crushes soft tissue, creating more of a hemorrhaging effect than a simple round nose bullet or a hollow point that fails to expand. This benefit is not apparent when looking at the gel test results, but for many years, ballistics researchers have noted that the real-world effectiveness of the humble wadcutter is far greater than its minimal recoil would suggest. The Winchester wadcutter, along with the lead wadcutter loads from both Federal and Remington, make excellent loads both for practice and self-defense for the ultra-lightweight revolvers or for inexperienced shooters or anyone who struggles with the recoil of their revolver for any other reason. That said, for steel frame revolvers and more experienced shooters, an expanding hollow point is probably the way to go. |
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Good read. It seems I should try the Hornady 110’s More penetration usually comes with less expansion and vice versa. Projectile design plays a big roll. Maybe the Hornady 110 hits that sweet spot I prefer low recoil 38 special not only because anyone can shoot it without fear, but follow up shots are quicker. They might not have the penetration of a 357 or +P, but in the end, they’ll work on two legged critters adequately |
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Quoted: Good read. It seems I should try the Hornady 110’s More penetration usually comes with less expansion and vice versa. Projectile design plays a big roll. Maybe the Hornady 110 hits that sweet spot I prefer low recoil 38 special not only because anyone can shoot it without fear, but follow up shots are quicker. They might not have the penetration of a 357 or +P, but in the end, they’ll work on two legged critters adequately That's what I carry in my non +P rated guns. But a lot of people are fans of the full wadcutter. No expansion, but no worries of lack of penetration. And less recoil. |