Posted: 6/30/2010 4:04:48 PM EDT
| Never really knew any different pistol shooting grips/stances before I joined the USMC, now I shoot a lot better using them, but I was curious, are there any other grips or stances besides the Weaver and Isosceles that the Corps teaches? |
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I went through handgun training in the Corps in '99. A lot of what they taught us was outdated, wrong, or insufficient. The only stance you need to know is the Modern Isocoles.  Seems to be the case in a lot of military classes. That's good to hear though, I have used the isosceles exclusively and it's worked well. |
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My understanding is that there is Weaver, Isosceles, and Nutnfancy. Weaver is taught at Gunsite. Isosceles is what all the competition shooters use. Nutnfancy is optimized for tactical maneuvers in Southern Idaho. I LOLed "dudes". Main 2 are definitely "Weaver-like" or "Isoscleles-like". I say "like" because someone coaching you in to the blueprint for that stance might not be comfortable for you so modify it to suit your needs. |
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For defensive shooting, Weaver top-side only for me. But both knees are moderately bent so that I can go into punch-kick mode if the 10mm fails.
I've trained more than a few shooters at the police range on my shooting/fighting style which has aspects of both Weaver and the Modern Iso. My stance gets you on target aggressively and you can defend yourself MMA style. |
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I guess a lot of the Gen X may have adopted the Isosceles stance but a lot of seasoned shooters still use Weaver and if a stance is working
for you thats great.Maybe it might be the more mdern style to shoot from. Something interesting i found that may help define you stance... Gabe Suarez has served as law enforcement officer for over 15 years, working SWAT, Undercover, Narcotics, and Gangs. He has been involved in training and teaching martial arts for thirty years. He conducts training and consulting for qualified individuals all over the world through Suarez International, Inc. "Pistol shooting, like any other martial art, is evolving. Part of that evolution is the realization that shooting is only one facet of the entire focus. The overall focus is on fighting, and integrating all the force options. When that is accepted, the issue of whether you fit into one type of classic stance or the other loses the importance it once had. The question now becomes, which posture is best suited to my needs. As long as your mission parameters are met, and you get the best results you can (you win the fight), who cares how you stand.. " |
| There seems to be '9mm VS .45' thing between Weaver and Isoselece, and it seems silly. Use what works for you. I teach Iso to my students, but I explain to them why I prefer it, and tell them that if weaver works better for them, they should use it. To be honest, even the people who swear by the Iso stance don't use a true isoselece stance, its usually kind of a blend between the two. |
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To answer your original question on "stances in the Marine Corps"
My name is Noel A. Robleto and I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years as an 0311 and a few BMOS (CMT, CMI, FWI). I also taught at the High Risk Personnel Course for 3 years. If you do not know what HRP is, its a week long course of 12 shooters compromised of recon, marsoc, CI, HUMIT, FBI, DEA, etc etc on 3 letter agencies, army sof, navy guys, and other groups. In the course we taught concealed handgun, and submachine guns where you are overseas in a plainclothes enviroment working in a small team under guidance dod, or dos. We shoot around 1400 rounds of live fire and 200 rounds of simunitions per student, and discuss the mental game and go over case studies of prior military and LE gunfights. At HRP we teach a "modified" isosceles position. It is a more dynamic stance that is tailored to the individual. It relies on your putting your strong foot forward (or rear foot), and rolling to the balls of your feet while shooting static. The reasoning is to provide options for movement. A human being falls forward and braces himself with his feet when he moves/runs. This modified isosceles position allows the shooter more mobility which is a key factor to surviving a gunfight. Our knees are slightly bent, and our elbows are as well. We want to provide a hydraulic effect with our elbows that will drive the gun back on target. The grip is a "one piece" grip that relies on your support hand to guide the handgun on target by placing your thumb on the axis of the horizontal barrel located on the slide and locking your hand, but not your arm out. Our stance, grip, and even trigger control is completely different than what they teach on the qual course. It does however, facilitate our students to achieve a high level of speed both with shooting and moving while maintaining a desired accuracy retention. We also do not believe that our techniques are 100% the best way. We always challenge our students from day 1 to be a good thief. Take what is an improvement on your techniques, and leave what does not work on you as a shooter. That being said, your techniques should be able to meet or exceed our qualification standards, or I would probably think twice about retaining that technique that does not facilitate you to break concealment and deliver a shot high center chest on a static human size target in 1.80 seconds or faster from a distance of 7 yards. HRP was disbanded about a year ago. I also left the Marines about a year ago. The Marine Corps believed we were wasting funds on a course that did not apply to sufficient Marines, and after 24 years of HRP, the course was disbanded and HRP assymilated into the Marine Corps Combat Shooting Team. Noel A. Robleto Owner / Instructor [email protected] http://www.virginia-tactical.com |
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Quoted:
I guess a lot of the Gen X may have adopted the Isosceles stance but a lot of seasoned shooters still use Weaver and if a stance is working for you thats great. At 37 I'm firmly "gen X" but I never could get used to isosceles, not as stable as Weaver and not as balanced. (this is on purpose of course, the advantage to isosceles is speed in changing targets and in moving) I find Weaver or modified Weaver gives better support |
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Not in the Marines, but II watched the Todd Jarrett video, started training like he showed in it, and never looked back. It really works for me. twice as fast and accurate and now its the most natural/comfortable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48 |
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Not in the Marines, but II watched the Todd Jarrett video, started training like he showed in it, and never looked back. It really works for me. twice as fast and accurate and now its the most natural/comfortable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48 Thats some pretty good stuff in the Vid there. |
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Quoted:
To answer your original question on "stances in the Marine Corps" My name is Noel A. Robleto and I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years as an 0311 and a few BMOS (CMT, CMI, FWI). I also taught at the High Risk Personnel Course for 3 years. If you do not know what HRP is, its a week long course of 12 shooters compromised of recon, marsoc, CI, HUMIT, FBI, DEA, etc etc on 3 letter agencies, army sof, navy guys, and other groups. In the course we taught concealed handgun, and submachine guns where you are overseas in a plainclothes enviroment working in a small team under guidance dod, or dos. We shoot around 1400 rounds of live fire and 200 rounds of simunitions per student, and discuss the mental game and go over case studies of prior military and LE gunfights. At HRP we teach a "modified" isosceles position. It is a more dynamic stance that is tailored to the individual. It relies on your putting your strong foot forward (or rear foot), and rolling to the balls of your feet while shooting static. The reasoning is to provide options for movement. A human being falls forward and braces himself with his feet when he moves/runs. This modified isosceles position allows the shooter more mobility which is a key factor to surviving a gunfight. Our knees are slightly bent, and our elbows are as well. We want to provide a hydraulic effect with our elbows that will drive the gun back on target. The grip is a "one piece" grip that relies on your support hand to guide the handgun on target by placing your thumb on the axis of the horizontal barrel located on the slide and locking your hand, but not your arm out. Our stance, grip, and even trigger control is completely different than what they teach on the qual course. It does however, facilitate our students to achieve a high level of speed both with shooting and moving while maintaining a desired accuracy retention. We also do not believe that our techniques are 100% the best way. We always challenge our students from day 1 to be a good thief. Take what is an improvement on your techniques, and leave what does not work on you as a shooter. That being said, your techniques should be able to meet or exceed our qualification standards, or I would probably think twice about retaining that technique that does not facilitate you to break concealment and deliver a shot high center chest on a static human size target in 1.80 seconds or faster from a distance of 7 yards. HRP was disbanded about a year ago. I also left the Marines about a year ago. The Marine Corps believed we were wasting funds on a course that did not apply to sufficient Marines, and after 24 years of HRP, the course was disbanded and HRP assymilated into the Marine Corps Combat Shooting Team. Noel A. Robleto Owner / Instructor [email protected] http://www.virginia-tactical.com Great information, thank you for posting. Welcome to the forum. 
I'm not seeing too much difference between a modified Weaver stance and your modified isosceles stance. |
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Great information, thank you for posting. Welcome to the forum.
I'm not seeing too much difference between a modified Weaver stance and your modified isosceles stance. Thanks for the welcome! I am very new to the forum, and I will post what I can with sources on the forum! I have added a picture of me shooting to show what I meant on grip and elbows. Granted my mouth is in a funny position ... this apparently is my war face ... I was shooting on the move, so from the shoulders down I look quite different than shooting static. On the other side my thumb should be in a locked out position pointing towards the intended threat .. in this case a brown paper target.  There should be minimal grip showing and my meathooks should be relaxed with most of the pressure coming from the wrists.
Anyways ... this plus my older post is essentially the "HRP" version of a modified isosceles. By no means did we invent this, or have an original idea about this stance/grip I am sure many of you use anyways. We just add to the why we do it in our courses and explain it in depth. |