Posted: 8/27/2008 4:22:51 PM EDT
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When I slam a full 15 round mag into my slide locked G19, the slide will release...every single time. If I baby the mag in, no problem. It is a factory stock gun and mag with about 3,000 rounds. |
And?  Seriously, this is not any kind of problem or malfunction. Some Glocks do that. M G23 does it all the time, while my G17 has only done it 2 or 3 times. I like it--speeds up the reload time.And no, rest assured, it is not any kind of problem, there is nothing wrong with your gun. This question is often asked about Glocks. Sometimes they do that, if you're holding the pistol at a certain angle, and shove the mag in with force. Perfectly normal. You have nothing to worry about. |
Actually, this can be a problem and I have witnessed it first hand several times. What happens sometimes, if the mag is inserted with enough force to jar the slide stop and release the slide, the rounds compress the mag spring and the slide can close without picking up a round. All thats heard when you pull the trigger is a deafening click. This happens more on higher round count guns because the mag springs may be a little softer and the slide stop is worn from being used incorrectly as a slide release. You may experience this at the range and never have an issue. All I am saying is that I have seen this happen on several occassions where the shooter ended up with an empty chamber. Thank God it was in training and not a Officer involved shooting on the street.
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Interesting... I don't use the slide stop as a release, I'm a sling shotter...when the gun gives me a chance.  I have a 2 range mags w/ 3,000 rounds between them...so that's about 100 cycles each. Is that about the life of the spring? It's a 3,000 round new gun, so it shouldn't be worn parts malfunction. Auto-loading pistol... 
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Do the mags engage the slide stop when the gun is empty? Are you having any feeding issues related to the mags? If not, I would say the mags are still good. Like I said earlier, you may not have any issues when this happens. I don't know if you are are a target shooter, armed citizen that carries frequently, or a Law Enforcement Officer. If you are the first one, then its not a big deal. If you are either of the latter two, then I would be cautious loading in this manner. It may work everytime and you will never have a single issue. I am just saying that it doesn't always work and I would hate to see anyone get hurt because their gun didn't pick up a round during a rapid reload. (unless, of course, you are the bad guy!)
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Bull The Slide Stop Lever is recommended buy Glock as a method for releasing the slide, read the manual. And, if Glock considered using it as a slide release as improper, why would they build their tactical models (G34 and G35) with an extended Slide Stop Lever to facilitate the very thing they want you to avoid? In addition, equating a release with a weak mag spring is total bull too. The two actions have nothing to do with each other. Now, if you would have said that the Glock Slide Stop Lever's spring could be weak and contribute to this, you would have demonstrated that you understand how the lever functions, but you didn't. Miss feeds associated with weak mag springs are generally not dependent upon how the slide is cycled. In addition, many miss feed issues are not even the fault of the mag but rather the fault of the operator. The truth is that if you tune any magazine feed pistol's Slide Stop / Slide Release (be it a Glock, 1911, Sig, HK, S&W, Kimber, Springfield, whatever) you could get that pistol to do this. Nothing is wrong with it and many of us prefer that our pistols do this for faster reloads. I make it a point to tune my Slide Stop Levers on all my pistols so that a firm mag insertion will release the slide. Once tuned, they work the same be it old, high round count stock springs or brand new Wolff +10% mag springs.
A prudent individual would do a press check / LCI check to ensure that a round is actually in the chamber before going into harm's way no matter how they actuated their pistol to try to put a round in there. That is what the press check is used for and that's why the LCI was developed. |
| I've had this happen too. More than likely you have the gun tilted at an angle when you put the magazine in, when you slap it, it pushes up on the slide stop lever just a tad and causes it to slide to the right (assuming your a right handed shooter) and will release the slide. The way to correct this is to try and keep your glock level as much as possible when reloading mags. |
We will have to agree to disagree then. I speak from first hand experience and years as a Law Enforcement Officer and Armorer. Glock adds the extended slide STOP to facillitate TARGET and COMPETITION shooters. They will not put them on the other models because, as Glock says, it is a slide STOP, not a release. You are right, it can be a slide stop lever spring spring. Every time I have been to Glock school (put on by Glock, not one of the do it yourself video series) Glock says that using the slide STOP improperly as a release accelerates wear and requires premature replacement of the part.  Just because you have never had it happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have personally WITNESSED it several times. As for saying the mag springs were weak, that was the op asking if his were. How many times have guys written in asking why they can't get the last round in the mag because the spring is stiff? What happens when they are cycled a few times? They loosen up, right? Thats what I am referring to, not a weak mag spring, although, that would produce a similar result. Further more, if you re-read my original post, you will see that I said this is fine for target/competition gun, but in the REAL world where your life or mine depends on that gun being loaded, it is NOT a reliable method of loading your gun.
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+1 for Da Fuzz's comments. I just replaced a slide stop lever (their part nomenclature, not mine) on a customer's gun yesterday...asked him to demonstrate with dummies how he was loading and chambering a round. Cleaned his gun first, then handed it to him. He slams the magazine home (fine...I've never had to exert tons of effort getting mine to seat), then thumbs the slide stop to drop the slide and chamber a round. I had him do this three times, and was able to replicate the problem (Clean, replicate, repair way of thinking). I replaced his slide stop and showed him the way Glock teaches to chamber a round...whoa...it works...imagine that. His old stop was completely worn and wouldn't engage the notch on the slide at all unless serious force was applied to it. I just got done speaking with our LE and Civilian Glock reps and they BOTH said it's a slide stop and Glock does not encourage anyone to use it as a slide release. I've never seen anything similar in any of my manuals (the 11 Glocks I've owned), perhaps different people interpret differently. I've been to Glock's Armorer school, and am on the list for the three-day Instructor course. I'd start by cleaning, then replace the part, then practice the proper method...it'll work, promise! |
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jeremy54b's comments just prove that things wear out on a Glock too. Would you say that it is wrong to load the magazine to it's capacity because it wears out the mag spring? Would you say that operating the slide is wrong because it wears out the recoil spring? Would you say that firing the weapon is wrong because it wears out the trigger spring and gets the weapon dirty? Of course not! The fact that Glock puts their extended slide stop on the weapons they believe will get the most use and the most wear, their tactical / practical models, says that they intend for the people to use them. Contrary to popular belief, LEOs as a group have very little more than a basic knowledge of their weapons and many ignore them to the point that they have someone else clean them instead of doing it themselves. In addition, according to Training Officiers I've personally talked to at our range from Denver PD, Edgewater PD, Colorado State Police, and the Jefferson County Sheriff Dept., most of their officers rarely fire their weapons outside of mandatory training and qualifications. Contact Dr. Mike, owner of Prairie Arms and he'll tell you that he cleans and services many of Douglas County's LEO weapons because they don't want to bother with them. He finds all sorts of silly things wrong with their duty weapons (pistols, ARs, and shotguns) that the LEOs aren't even aware of because they don't know and use their weapons enough to understand their function. BTW, if you want to throw around Glock Armorers, try this. Glock trains their most senior Armorers to a very detailed level so that they can 'train the trainers'. The are called Glock Master Armorers. Dave Humke of Glockparts.com worked for Glock for 20+ years and he was one of their Master Armorers. He lives not far from me and I've been to his home. Five years ago I specifically asked Dave about Glock's Slide Stop Lever, its proper use, and why the extended version is only on their tactical / practical models. His answer is that they don't include the extended version on their std versions because of marketing reasons (extended for 'tactical and practical' shooting) and the std version allows them to advertise a thinner weapon. And, he uses the Slide Stop Lever as well as the sling shot method to release the slide. |
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Kudos to Glock for making such a durable weapon. In the 10 years or so that I have been an armorer, the slide stop is the most common part I replace. The last update I went to was taught by a Glock Master Armorer...funny, he reiterated to the class that Glock intended the slide stop as a slide stop, not a release. The slide stop is made from stamped sheet metal and wears very easy against the hard slide. We got a little off base here regarding the original problem. If that's the way you load your pistol, then so be it. I come from a very progressive agency who spends alot of time training officers (street and swat) in tactics and firearms proficiency. That method has caused problems in the past and we do not advocate it. I'm not gonna sit here and puff out my chest and claim to more about them than anyone else here, nor will I drop names of those who clean, maintain and repair all our HK automatic weapons, Sig and Glock pistols, Remington shotguns and AR-15's.....oh wait, that would be me...never mind. Just put my two cents worth in to the mix to share my EXPERIENCE with the original posters questions.
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Hey all, I was actually out shooting with splitbolt saturday morning when all this happened. I was shooting my glock too, second gen g19 with god knows how many rounds through it. I've got an extended slide stop lever and had just put a glock +2 mag extension on one of my magazines so the spring was completely fresh. After he had his issue I tried to replicate it and got it to happen twice that day slamming the mag home. We were shooting different guns, different mags, different ammo. But that day for some reason we both had it happen twice (I think his was three). I've never had it happen to me before, and afaik neither had he. Just an odd coincidence maybe? Eh, just my .02 for what it might help. |
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Thanks for all the replies guys. I guess this is somewhat common? News to me... So, there are no fixes, because it's not really a problem? I will concede, I had the gun tilted at an angle when reloading...need to get that Vickers mag catch. Normally, I do keep the gun straight during reloads. Like I said, I sling shot the slide. When I reach up to rack the slide and it's not there, I'm going straight to tap-rack-roll...hell of a way to reload a pistol, especially in a worst case scenario. I press check my defensive guns, but, I still would/will not use this as a method of loading/reloading. This was my new ccw, now, I don't know... Guess I'll give the different angle a try, but even then... |
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Well it is your choice. But I'm tellin' ya, rest assured, there's nothin' wrong with that gun at all. Alot of us trust our lives to the Glock platform. Again, my G23 has done what you describe, and I'm carryin' it right now. It has not failed in well over 6,000 rnds. Period. Confidence in your weapon is important though, I guess. Well good luck man. |
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Slam it. If it loads great. Don't expect it to, and use the stop as a release. (OMG bad skills........ run) and you will end up with a glock that is loaded for every single mag change. Been doing it that way for 10 years in IDPA and I have probably had less the 5 failures. My bigest problem is the glock fails so rarely that you end up slow on failure drills. You could actually learn to tone down your reloads, there is no gain in beating the ever loving shit out of it. Tell me that your front site never moved off the target during the reaload and I will kiss your ass. Keep your head down, front site on the target, don't run the weapon dry and do your reload smooth and fast. |
This occured during some informal plinking at the range. I wasn't really running it like I would in practice/training. I know, I know... Normally, I do not slam the mag that hard. I will run it like I mean it, with proper technique. If my "problem" disappears I will be a happy camper. FWIW, I tried duplicating it last night. It would only occur when I had the gun tilted at a certain angle |
I know what you mean about the Glock bein' so reliable, you don't get the malfunction clearing practice too much----  That's why Clint Smith is known for saying that with an "ultra-reliable" pistol, it's THAT MUCH MORE important to do those failure drills.  I've gotten caught in that routine before.......and I do alot of failure drills now, with snap-caps, just to stay "up"
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Fine...to each their own. I'm glad the OP's question got answered. I will continue to teach that part on semi-autos as a slide stop...and will continue to implore people to sling-shot rather than use that other method. Different theories I guess. Both work equally well, and getting the pistol back in the fight is the point. |
| Well this is quite informative, points out a few bad habits on my part. Looking at both sides of the slide stop vs slide release argument, I'm going to stick with the slingshot. To each his own, but I've seen how I operate under pressure, and I don't trust my fine motor skills enough to hit my slide stop lever precisely and quickly, even with it being the extended model. Secondly, I'll stop tilting my damn gun to the side every time I reload. |
Here is something you have to determine. Now you know it can do it, if it does it during practice some of the time but not all the time then you may get screwed. You may expect it when it does not happen etc. For me it has only happened 3 or 4 times in 30 or 40 k, but for others I see it on every reload. Never rely on the glock to load itself and you will be fine, I would even try to unlearn the auto reload if possible, up to you. Smooth is much more important then powerful when it comes to a reload IMO. |
| I have two glocks- 32 & 24. Both do this everytime without fail, if the gun is held vertical. In regards to worn springs my 32 is 8 yrs old and has been shot tens of thousands of times and acts like its brand new. My 24 was bought brand new and has only 1500 rds through it. The springs are nice and stiff and this reloading is just as consistent as the 32. Oh yeah, just tested that on my fathers 35 and it does it flawlessly everytime. Look in the manual on page 23 "push the slide stop lever downward or pull the slide slightly backward". It may not say that it is supposed to do this but these three Glocks are well cared for and the 24 and 35 are still young. No failures and no excessive wear. My dads HK USP .45 also does this and even says that it is normal function in the manual. Just more proof of GLOCK Perfection. |
If speed getting back into the fight is an issue, then the sling-shot method is much slower than the one I use. Try it and see. |