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Posted: 1/1/2012 4:48:58 PM EST
I've been shooting for my entire life, and within the past two months I acquired a G17 and a G30. I love them both. I recently took a defensive pistol class, and the dude instructing the class said he hated Glocks, and although he owns several, would never depend on this firearm to protect his life. It should be noted that his preferred pistol is a revolver; I can't say I agree with that view. His reason for the deep disliking of Glocks is because of what he called "kaboom issues". What is this in reference to? He stated that several agencies were dumping their pistols because of this issue. Am I missing something here?
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 5:10:04 PM EST
He sounds like the eighty year old instructors around here . Our local police " dumped " their Glocks for new Glocks. The Mi DOC "dumped" their gen 3 Glocks for gen 4 Glocks. They are here to stay for a while.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 5:12:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2012 5:15:55 PM EST by DAC1984]
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I've been shooting for my entire life, and within the past two months I acquired a G17 and a G30. I love them both. I recently took a defensive pistol class, and the dude instructing the class said he hated Glocks, and although he owns several, would never depend on this firearm to protect his life. It should be noted that his preferred pistol is a revolver; I can't say I agree with that view. His reason for the deep disliking of Glocks is because of what he called "kaboom issues". What is this in reference to? He stated that several agencies were dumping their pistols because of this issue. Am I missing something here?


Hates them, yet owns several ?

This guy sounds like a complete fucking dumbass.

ETA: There are plenty of guns I don't like and that's why i don't own them. Who in the fuck buys a gun they hate?
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 5:20:07 PM EST
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought too.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 5:23:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I've been shooting for my entire life, and within the past two months I acquired a G17 and a G30. I love them both. I recently took a defensive pistol class, and the dude instructing the class said he hated Glocks, and although he owns several, would never depend on this firearm to protect his life. It should be noted that his preferred pistol is a revolver; I can't say I agree with that view. His reason for the deep disliking of Glocks is because of what he called "kaboom issues". What is this in reference to? He stated that several agencies were dumping their pistols because of this issue. Am I missing something here?


He sounds like a dumbass.

99.9% of the kabooms I've read about involve .40 caliber Glocks. (I've never witnessed a kaboom personally, in spite of owning & shooting several .40s and being present when literally dozens of .40s were present––and using reloaded ammo at that!) You have 9mm and .45, so no worries. Shoot your Glocks and ignore the know-it-all "instructor".
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:20:51 PM EST
Eh, pistol instructors are a dime a dozen around here. Most of them are wanna be, bodyguard, ex LEO, know it alls. The guy that did our CHL class told war stories about being a bad ass body guard and kicking peoples asses all the time and such, he looked like he could barely walk up the stairs to the range. The best instructors, in my opinion, are the ones who will see your weapon is in good, working condition, and that you can shoot accurately enough with to hit your target.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:29:36 PM EST
Demand your money back.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 6:52:56 PM EST
Take him one of your Glocks and ask if he wants it! He won't turn it down. Sounds like tuff love to me.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:03:52 PM EST
In the police academy I attended most of the instructors used Glocks.... out of the class of about 60 people none of the Glocks had any problems... and the Glock shooters finished higher shooting ranking than the Sig and M&P shooters.
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:40:11 PM EST
Guy is a douche nozzle. We issue G22 to over 400 officers since 1994. Have had one kaboom. I got over 25K through mine with no issues. I have been an instructor since 1996 and as long as the gun is safe and the shooter can run it I'm all good with it. It's one thing to say you prefer somthing but another to just blast a pistol cause you can. Stay away from dick holes like this and you'll do fine
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:42:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By jakoury256:
Guy is a douche nozzle. We issue G22 to over 400 officers since 1994. Have had one kaboom. I got over 25K through mine with no issues. I have been an instructor since 1996 and as long as the gun is safe and the shooter can run it I'm all good with it. It's one thing to say you prefer somthing but another to just blast a pistol cause you can. Stay away from dick holes like this and you'll do fine


Example, I'm a lefty. Sigs are great pistols and I like shooting them. Having said that I would not carry one cause it's tough for me to work one at speed under stress. Still a great gun just not for me
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 7:53:17 PM EST
how could he say they wouldnt depend their life on one, given glocks track record.
i dont think any decent instructor can deny the history of the glock.

the kaboom+glock issues are more an issue with glock above the 9mm caliber. supposedly it was due to poor reloads or rare bad factory loads associated with the 40 caliber glocks.

its not an issue with the 9mm glocks though.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 2:16:47 AM EST
I agree with you guys. I strayed away from Glocks for quite a while because I didn't much care for the way it felt in my hand. It started with the G30 (My daily carry now), and I couldn't resist the G17 gen4. This dude said a lot of shit that didn't make much sense. He bagged on Beretta for having metallurgical issues (We know that was solved LONG ago), he bagged on Springfield XD models for having "too many safeties". When asked his preference, it was revolvers (why would you want more than 5 rounds in a gunfight?), or Sig pistols. The class was decent, but bagging on every type of pistol out there except a sig or revolver got old quick.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 2:29:16 AM EST
Guy's f.o.s. and doesn't need to be "instructing" anybody on anything. He's just an anachronistic dolt.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 2:59:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I've been shooting for my entire life, and within the past two months I acquired a G17 and a G30. I love them both. I recently took a defensive pistol class, and the dude instructing the class said he hated Glocks, and although he owns several, would never depend on this firearm to protect his life. It should be noted that his preferred pistol is a revolver; I can't say I agree with that view. His reason for the deep disliking of Glocks is because of what he called "kaboom issues". What is this in reference to? He stated that several agencies were dumping their pistols because of this issue. Am I missing something here?


Yeah. A good instructor.

I'm not saying Glocks are perfect, and that everyone has to like them.............but this instructor sounds like a clown.



How many in the class were running Glocks?
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 3:18:04 AM EST
Definitely seek out a better class. Every class I've been to, a majority (over 50%) of the attendees and instructors were using Glocks. Glocks overwhelm the classes so much that sometimes specific instruction needed to be given to the few people carrying something different (i.e. give the SIG guy some specific instruction on DA/SA transitions, etc.).
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 4:26:53 AM EST
He's an idiot
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 4:51:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 4:52:20 AM EST by Dogue]
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I agree with you guys. I strayed away from Glocks for quite a while because I didn't much care for the way it felt in my hand. It started with the G30 (My daily carry now), and I couldn't resist the G17 gen4. This dude said a lot of shit that didn't make much sense. He bagged on Beretta for having metallurgical issues (We know that was solved LONG ago), he bagged on Springfield XD models for having "too many safeties". When asked his preference, it was revolvers (why would you want more than 5 rounds in a gunfight?), or Sig pistols. The class was decent, but bagging on every type of pistol out there except a sig or revolver got old quick.


Nothing against revolvers, we all know their strong points, but my answer to the above is "why would you want to limit yourself to 5 rounds in a gun fight?" He's an instructor yet he must be assuming you'd only face 1 attacker and that you'll get 5 good hits on him/her and that they're not a drugged up psychopath. I bet nobody that is in, or was in, a gun fight thought "I have way to many rounds in this gun." But I wouldn't want to be the guy that wishes he had just 1 more...

As has already been stated, this instructor is an idiot and if I had an instructor like this I'd be questioning everything he said at that point.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 5:04:07 AM EST
As others have said, that guy is a retard. I would avoid any of his future classes like the plague.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 5:05:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2012 5:10:46 AM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 8:35:19 AM EST
I leave my Glocks in the safe because I'm afraid they will blow up

That is someone who has spent too much time on the interwebz or something beacuse that is the only place I have seen a KB. It's so rare but falls hard on Glocks because they are so popular, it only makes sense that we hear of problems they have.

Your Glocks are just fine and there is a reason they are so popular.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 9:13:17 AM EST
Most people are idiots. Some idiots are also instructors.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 9:55:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:
Most people are idiots. Some idiots are also instructors.


True that! It was a CWP class. I had a CWP from MI, but when moving out of state, MI doesn't honor it as an out of state permit. I was reluctant to re-take the class, but my gf was highly interested, and I decided to take it with her. Surprisingly, there weren't too many Glocks in the class of about 26 students. A few had revolvers in .38 SPL, I saw a couple 1911 clones, a couple .22 LRs, and maybe 4 or 5 Glocks. Taurus seemed to be pretty prominent as well.
Link Posted: 1/2/2012 10:04:23 AM EST
How many Glocks have you seen actually blow the fuck up ya know?? Except on the interwebz..........Hater's gonna hate brother!! Most all whom talk shit own two or three and yet they talk that shit, it's funny really and does not affect the way I wipe my ass so let'em talk..........If it's top dog or even close haters come out in full effect, it would'nt matter if it was a damn HK if it ever made it's way towards the kinda market share Glock holds then it would be hated as well...............
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:33:28 AM EST
Lots of people who take pride in other types of firearms tend to manufacture an artificial hate for the Glock pistol. Revolvers, 1911's, Hk's, etc, etc.

They are flat out wrong.

To me, it is very irrational and they have no business spreading their prejudices based on a subject that should be almost entirely rational based. It is almost amusing the little things they pick out as things why they are averse to the Glock. I have a bud that will always bitch about the segmented trigger safety because it "uncomfortable" when shooting. I have to agree that it isn't exactly a nice feel, but it is funny that he would worry about such things if someone were to pull a gun on you in a dark ally. I don't worry about how comfortable the gun is, how it looks, etc as long as it gets lead on target quickly.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 3:35:13 AM EST
Was his remark.... Dem dar plastic guns are crap.


I love my 19c
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 7:02:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
just my personal issues....


Why were you teaching a pistol defensive class in South Carolina?

Some guns do work better for some people. And some different guys like different features (I rather have a "safety less" fighting handgun). But a guy that calls a Glock unrealiable, is a idiot.

Take any good that you learned in the class and move on. Look for a reputable class with good instructors.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 8:05:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
just my personal issues....

frame feels like a cheap toy compared to other polymer guns

i prefer a non trigger mounted safety <i actually don't consider a glock to have ANY safeties>

grip angle does not fit me at all. i shoot VERY high with a natural grip on my glock.

propensity to explode and garbage customer service after my g30 exploded.

that said i do still carry my g19 on occasion, but i have several other polymer guns i consider to be much better designs and shoot better FOR ME.


People always mention this as a black mark against Glocks. "The natural grip shoots high." What natural grip? Rifles and shotguns have an NPOA because they are supported by your skeleton. Handguns are supported by muscle.

I think people that say the Glock shoots high are just not willing to put in the trigger time to adapt to the different grip angle.
Link Posted: 1/3/2012 9:48:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
just my personal issues....

frame feels like a cheap toy compared to other polymer guns

i prefer a non trigger mounted safety <i actually don't consider a glock to have ANY safeties>

grip angle does not fit me at all. i shoot VERY high with a natural grip on my glock.

propensity to explode and garbage customer service after my g30 exploded.

that said i do still carry my g19 on occasion, but i have several other polymer guns i consider to be much better designs and shoot better FOR ME.


People always mention this as a black mark against Glocks. "The natural grip shoots high." What natural grip? Rifles and shotguns have an NPOA because they are supported by your skeleton. Handguns are supported by muscle.

I think people that say the Glock shoots high are just not willing to put in the trigger time to adapt to the different grip angle.


The angle itself isn't much different from any other pistol. I think it's the hump on the back that throws people off.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 3:50:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
just my personal issues....

frame feels like a cheap toy compared to other polymer guns

i prefer a non trigger mounted safety <i actually don't consider a glock to have ANY safeties>

grip angle does not fit me at all. i shoot VERY high with a natural grip on my glock.

propensity to explode and garbage customer service after my g30 exploded.

that said i do still carry my g19 on occasion, but i have several other polymer guns i consider to be much better designs and shoot better FOR ME.


People always mention this as a black mark against Glocks. "The natural grip shoots high." What natural grip? Rifles and shotguns have an NPOA because they are supported by your skeleton. Handguns are supported by muscle.

I think people that say the Glock shoots high are just not willing to put in the trigger time to adapt to the different grip angle.


The angle itself isn't much different from any other pistol. I think it's the hump on the back that throws people off.


You're probably right. Personally, I find that using the sights eliminates this problem on any handgun I shoot.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 9:43:53 AM EST
Where are all these people who OWN Glocks and HATE Glocks at the same time? And why haven't they taken these monstrosities to my local gun shop for pennies on the dollar so I can buy my G34 a bargain 'little brother' G26? Now I'll admit, I'm new to Glocks, only had my G34 for a year now and my first few trips to the range were terrible, took some time to learn how to shoot accurately. Almost got rid of it but it grew on me, and I think some people shoot a friends Glock once and form a lifetime opinion.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:05:10 AM EST
That's funny. I shoot both an m&p and a glock 19 regularly and there isn't a tangible difference in accuracy between the guns. Btw that includes my heavily modded trigger on the m&p that breaks just below 4lbs. My glock only has a 3.5ln connector in it. As far as the point thing the have very different feels to the guns but I haven't noticed enough of a difference to complain about either gun. Fwiw my glock is my carry gun.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:14:17 AM EST

I went straight to a G17 from a 1911. Never had any issues with grip angle, muscle memory, or accuracy.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:15:08 AM EST
There are Kabooms...and there are Kabooms.

If you shoot lead loads in a .40 S&W Glock (actually any factory Glock barrel regardless of caliber) you may end up with a serious problem.

The basic issue is the type of rifling used in Glock barrels. If you examine the barrel you will notice that there are no conventional lands and grooves. The barrel instead is shaped like a octagon. Glock calls this "polygonal" rifling. The factory claims long life and increased accuracy as the benefits. The downside? No lead.

Lead bullets in a polygonal barrel leave lead behind. Sooner or later these lead deposits boost pressures in the barrel, which then can result in a blown barrel = the dreaded Kaboom. .40 S&W barrels are said to be the biggest culprits in this as they have thinner chamber walls than the 10mm or the 9mm Glocks (for instance). .45ACP and lead loads usually go together like peanut butter and jelly....except in Glocks. NO LEAD!

Glocks also have what can be termed as "generous" chambers. If you have weak brass and a higher pressure load (factory screw up or handloader misadventure) the area just in front of the case head can give way. This usually results in the magazine being blown out, a toasted trigger finger, etc.

This is also termed a "Kaboom".

If you want a trifecta of fail you can go for the brass ring. Load up your barrel with lead, use a warm load, and then neglect to clean your weapon (ever). Also don't bother with replacing the mainspring (ever). Sooner or later you will end up with a load partially chambering and the weapon firing out of battery.

Now that is what I would call a proper Kaboom.

So, basically don't use lead in your Glock. Replace your mainsprings (7 bucks or so) every 5-10k depending on which caliber you are using (the .45ACP more than the 9mm). Clean your weapons every decade or so and then forget about it.

In fact, I think you should join those of us who own Glocks but savor the grenade jokes regardless.



Link Posted: 1/4/2012 4:43:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2012 9:03:30 AM EST by B62stew]
I used to be leery of GLOCKS, until I shot two different models. I was OK with the Glocks; Didn't have enough time behind the trigger to notice an improvement. Sight picture took a bit getting used too, because I primarily shoot a 1911 which have a taller front sight. I asked my friend who was with me about the GLOCK Kabooms, he said it was an ammo issue. That people using +P ammo in a gun that isn't rated for +P ammo resulted in a Kaboom. That explanation made sense to me.

B62stew
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:05:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Easy_E:
He sounds like the eighty year old instructors around here .

+1
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:11:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 6:38:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I agree with you guys. I strayed away from Glocks for quite a while because I didn't much care for the way it felt in my hand. It started with the G30 (My daily carry now), and I couldn't resist the G17 gen4. This dude said a lot of shit that didn't make much sense. He bagged on Beretta for having metallurgical issues (We know that was solved LONG ago), he bagged on Springfield XD models for having "too many safeties". When asked his preference, it was revolvers (why would you want more than 5 rounds in a gunfight?), or Sig pistols. The class was decent, but bagging on every type of pistol out there except a sig or revolver got old quick.


Sounds like you picked a Dinosaur of an Instructor.

I bet he taught you Weaver stance and Teacup grip too!



Win
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 2:04:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

I went straight to a G17 from a 1911. Never had any issues with grip angle, muscle memory, or accuracy.


Yep. Someone posted a Glock alongside a 1911 and included angle lines. There was only a vaginal hairs difference in the actual angle.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 3:42:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By 50BMGslinger:
I agree with you guys. I strayed away from Glocks for quite a while because I didn't much care for the way it felt in my hand. It started with the G30 (My daily carry now), and I couldn't resist the G17 gen4. This dude said a lot of shit that didn't make much sense. He bagged on Beretta for having metallurgical issues (We know that was solved LONG ago), he bagged on Springfield XD models for having "too many safeties". When asked his preference, it was revolvers (why would you want more than 5 rounds in a gunfight?), or Sig pistols. The class was decent, but bagging on every type of pistol out there except a sig or revolver got old quick.


Sounds like you picked a Dinosaur of an Instructor.

I bet he taught you Weaver stance and Teacup grip too!


i read your post and all i can think of is the officer in "meet the fockers" when he yells "weaver stance" and fires his stun gun.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 3:55:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dogue:
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By bassist:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
just my personal issues....

frame feels like a cheap toy compared to other polymer guns

i prefer a non trigger mounted safety <i actually don't consider a glock to have ANY safeties>

grip angle does not fit me at all. i shoot VERY high with a natural grip on my glock.

propensity to explode and garbage customer service after my g30 exploded.

that said i do still carry my g19 on occasion, but i have several other polymer guns i consider to be much better designs and shoot better FOR ME.


People always mention this as a black mark against Glocks. "The natural grip shoots high." What natural grip? Rifles and shotguns have an NPOA because they are supported by your skeleton. Handguns are supported by muscle.

I think people that say the Glock shoots high are just not willing to put in the trigger time to adapt to the different grip angle.


The angle itself isn't much different from any other pistol. I think it's the hump on the back that throws people off.


You're probably right. Personally, I find that using the sights eliminates this problem on any handgun I shoot.


"Using the sights"? Well now you're using logic. And that's just not fair.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 5:59:08 PM EST
I used to hate Glocks and I didn't have a reason. I think mostly because I didn't want to jump on the band wagon... I think I thought metal guns were superior. So I got rid of my CZ P-01 and got an XD...biggest mistake of my life. I since sold the XD and bought a 19. Two months after that, I bought another 19. I don't think I will buy much else than Glock. I may get a P-01 in the future. And probably a couple 1911's.

The Glocks have been the easiest to use, easiest to clean and work on and the best shooting gun I have ever shot. 100 yards no problem.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 7:25:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By NY_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:

I went straight to a G17 from a 1911. Never had any issues with grip angle, muscle memory, or accuracy.


Yep. Someone posted a Glock alongside a 1911 and included angle lines. There was only a vaginal hairs difference in the actual angle.


That thread was a trainwreck too.

Guy 1: grip angle is the same

Guy 2: grip angle is different!

Guy 1: here's a pic!

Guy 2: GRIP ANGLE IS DIFFERENT!!!


Yeah. We get it. Grip angle is almost the same in front, but tang of Glock goes much deeper into the web of the hand. And it's got the hump. Which makes it point higher.

Which I've never had a problem with.

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