Posted: 1/12/2016 6:50:50 PM EDT
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I have a stock Gen 4 Glock 19.
It shoots 147 grain ammo about 7 inches high at 50 yards and 123/124's about 14 inches high. this with front sight height (std. nylon) of about 0.15 tall. Rear sight is std nylon at 0.18 with my calipers. (I thought 6.5 mm was standard but that would only be 0.15 (I think). Any way it shoots way high. I am going to probably standardize on 147 grain ammo and wondered about your guys experience adjusting point of impact with OEM and after market sights. I wrote Trijicon about their high visability tritium HD sights and what they recommend but have not heard back from them yet. I forget what the formula is for determining how far to drift for windage or raise/lower for elevation but think I need to elevate front sight 0.253 for a 7 inch adjustment and 0.050 for a 14 inch adjustment. I calculated that by measuring sight radius (6 inches), calculating inches to fifty yards, and dividing by 6 inch sight radius, which gives me fractions of an inch per inch of elevation. Does this sound right to you? How did you all adjust your point of impact? And were your Glocks that far off? I also had to drift the rear sight so it just barely hangs over right edge of slide to get it zeroed for windage. I can probably cut that off with a file, hack saw blade, or scalpel until I get a replacement. |
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Here's the sight adjustment calculation from Dawson.
Glocks are supposed to be zeroed out of the box at 25 yards, where are yours shooting there? |
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Quoted:
Learning to shoot also helpful. Quoted:
Learning to shoot also helpful. This seems like an unnecessarily rude comment towards the OP. How do you know he's not a better shooter than you... Quoted:
The sight heght calculator posts are accurate but silly vis-a-via the Glock system. It ain't how you do it. There's nothing magic about Glock sights vs. all other fixed sights. You adjust the POI the same way, by calculating how much taller/shorter a front or rear sight you need and then buying a new one. Quoted:
Glock users should all know these things. Its just part of the Perfection of the system. Perfection of the system, you must be joking. And it's ok for a Glock user to ask these questions...that's how they learn these things... |
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Thanks guys for your posts. Always some useful information here.
Lampshade, My Glock really does shoot high and left. I have been class A or higherIPSC/USPSA since late 1970's and can make head shots at 50 yards with most of my pistols. I purchaaed the Glock for my wife, who is an accomplished rifle shooter but has not CC. After San Bernadino she decided to start carrying and her little Colt Mustang (with Novak tritium sights) seemed inadequate. I am going to take your advice and order a 6.1mm rear which will lower POI a few inches. (0.4mm lower is 1/64th inch or 0.157 inch). Thanks! Will use that until we find a better front/rear set up that regulates with Federal 147 HST. thanks for taking the time to post your pictures. I have 9 pistols and Glock is the only one to shoot that far off center. I have a suppressed 40 SW HK USP that is a bit off center but I have adjustible sights on that. My race guns and unmidified class pistols are 1911's, one of which is from a World Champion and they are centered on slide. Maybe I am still learning a DA only pistol and pulling shots both high and left but I dont think so. A well respected gunsmith was at our range same day I was sighting in the Glock and he was adjusting windage and elevation for a customers G19. He used a .230 high Trijicon HD front with their std. rear and was shooting about 4 inches low at 50 yds after trying their .185 and .215 which were still shooting way high. So I am not alone. The HD's are not a precision sight but it is fast. I did not have hjgh expectations, its a Glock with nylon sights. But I like it for CC even though it is fairly wide. They sure are lilght weight! 26 ounces loaded no heavier than my Kimber Custom shop .45 combat carry empty. I shoot about 1,000 rounds a year precision rifle out to 1,300 yards, 150 rounds a week pistol and somewhere between 3,000 - 10,000 rounds a year linked 5.56 and 762 (Stoner 63 and original Saco M60 E4). So the point of impact is probably weapon related. |
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Quoted:
This seems like an unnecessarily rude comment towards the OP. How do you know he's not a better shooter than you... There's nothing magic about Glock sights vs. all other fixed sights. You adjust the POI the same way, by calculating how much taller/shorter a front or rear sight you need and then buying a new one. Perfection of the system, you must be joking. And it's ok for a Glock user to ask these questions...that's how they learn these things... Quoted:
Quoted:
Learning to shoot also helpful. This seems like an unnecessarily rude comment towards the OP. How do you know he's not a better shooter than you... Quoted:
The sight heght calculator posts are accurate but silly vis-a-via the Glock system. It ain't how you do it. There's nothing magic about Glock sights vs. all other fixed sights. You adjust the POI the same way, by calculating how much taller/shorter a front or rear sight you need and then buying a new one. Quoted:
Glock users should all know these things. Its just part of the Perfection of the system. Perfection of the system, you must be joking. And it's ok for a Glock user to ask these questions...that's how they learn these things... Warning sent to LampShade. There is no reason to post things like this in a tech forum. AJE |
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Russell,
Thanks man. Lampshade. thanks for additional info. I do not have a Glock armorers manual. (Obviously). Agree, best to sort out site height and windage w an inexpensive nylon set up before purchasing a better set of nite sights. I have found numerous places to buy the 6.1mm rear sites but not the OEM 4.9mm front sight. AM I correct that the 4.1mm is standard? (That would be 0.161 inch which is about what I got with calipers). It looks like a 4.9mm front would solve my problem with the 147 grain ammo. Where do I find one??? And does it have a symbol code on it like the rear site? Is the Glock tritium front available in 4.9mm? The rear site is barely over the edge of the slide, but enough I notice it and it bugs me. My wife and I have very similar point of aim/impact and I am the ammo geek so I will hand it off to her once I get on a six inch targ dot or small bore bulls eye at 50. (She shoots starlings out of our bird feeder at 50 yards w a silenced .22 but has alot more experience w rifle than pistol). Thanks everyone. I know Zip about Glocks and appreciate help. PS With sites, trigger and a barsto barrel I am going to have a $1,000 Glock. Oh well, cheaper than golf. |
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The cache of a Glock is dependability.
The factory configuration Gen4 19 trigger pull will be the rated 5# with the standard dot connector after 500 rounds or so. The sight/zeroing issues can be sorted out. A new barrel? Not needed for lead bullets. Simply use properly cast bullets 1/1000" over measured bore diameter. Leading is most often caused by gasses blowing by an undersized bullet melting its sides. See DardasCastBullets.com for info and really good bullets. No more real accuracy with a replacement barrel. Any changes are a dependability detraction. As to the endless trigger mods and changes, scan these pages for the stories of how guys changed parts and now their Glock does x y and z. Way too many stories about how "I fixed it until it quit working." Any changes are a dependability detraction. Sounds technical to me.  
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Russell,
It shoots about 2 inches left and twice that high at 10-12 yards with most ammo. At 25 yds it starts to pull off a Pepper Popper. Ive got the windage reduced by half with full deflection to right on rear sight. We do shoot at longish range due to our geography. Wide open spaces. I'm not zeroing at 50 yds but I sure want to know where its point of impact is, and its way off. Like I said earlier, most of my pistols can make a head shot at 50 yards. I would accept what its doing if it were a .380 KelTech but not a mid to full size frame.. Lampshade. Message received. Break in trigger before replacing parts or polishing. |
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Quoted:
I've still never seen a Glock before that shoots 4" high at 12 yards with any ammo. Even with heavy ammo? You can read my archived thread here from my experiment with trying to find a heavier bullet for carry. LampShadeActual does a good job of explaining why heavier bullets impact higher. For my own reasons I have settled on Speer Gold Dots for carry in my G19. And I'm happy with them. |
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Lungbuster,
Are you ahoting 147 or 124 Gold Dots? Rusell, It shoots about 2 inches left and two inches high at 12 yards with 100 FMJ RN, 123 FMJ RN, 124 FMJ FN, and 147 GD, 147 Sig. Not four. Best zero is with 900 fps 147 reloads. But they are still high and left at 50 yards. I need to take a six oclock right hand hold to get center hits on a larrue knock down silohuette. |
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What symbol is on the side of the rear sight? For a G19, it should be the single long dash My Gen 2 G23 somehow came with the 6.1mm sight from the factory and I was always hitting low until I swapped it out for the right one. Also, what sight picture are you using? Glocks are zero'd at 25m (27 yds) using a sight picture like in Fig 1  I've noticed that with my G23 and G43, Fig 1 works at 15 and 25 yds but for 3 and 7 yds, the Fig 0 sight picture is spot on and faster because it's faster to just put the dot on target and fire |
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Some Glock rear plastic sights make a good sight picture with the front white dot and rear white [_] impossible.
If the tops of the three black parts are lined up and level, the black bottom of the rear notch where there is black above the while [_] then obscures the bottom of the front white dot. The reaction is to raise the front dot so you can see it all, but you have now made the gun shoot higher than wth the black tops. The solution is easy. Pad the slide into a vise. Duct tape the top of the slide to prevent file screw ups. With a needle file, cutting rear to front so there are no burrs, make a shallow trough in the bottom black of the rear notch until you can see the whole white dot when the three black sight tops are level. It doesn't take much. When aiming your eye will now see the black or the white, but not the shallow trough. It will see the white dot as a circle rather than flat. Some are made right and do not present this abnormality. |
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Quoted: Some Glock rear plastic sights make a good sight picture with the front white dot and rear white [_] impossible. If the tops of the three black parts are lined up and level, the black bottom of the rear notch where there is black above the while [_] then obscures the bottom of the front white dot. The reaction is to raise the front dot so you can see it all, but you have now made the gun shoot higher than wth the black tops. The solution is easy. Pad the slide into a vise. Duct tape the top of the slide to prevent file screw ups. With a needle file, cutting rear to front so there are no burrs, make a shallow trough in the bottom black of the rear notch until you can see the whole white dot when the three black sight tops are level. It doesn't take much. When aiming your eye will now see the black or the white, but not the shallow trough. It will see the white dot as a circle rather than flat. Some are made right and do not present this abnormality. as long as you have the tops of the sights aligned, you're good to go |
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You miss the point, I think.
In lower light or a dark target, when all that is really clear is the white, seeing the full front dot makes the black tops mis-align. With these variant rear sights, you cannot both keep the black top level AND see the full round front dot at the same time. If you are using the white, you probably cannot see the black. Off a well lit square range, its more obvious. Its why a lot of people shoot high. You have to look and see if the black bar above the white in a particular rear sight interferes. Then make a shallow U if it does. Quite easy unless you rush or get sloppy with the needle file. |
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Quoted:
Lungbuster, Are you ahoting 147 or 124 Gold Dots? Rusell, It shoots about 2 inches left and two inches high at 12 yards with 100 FMJ RN, 123 FMJ RN, 124 FMJ FN, and 147 GD, 147 Sig. Not four. Best zero is with 900 fps 147 reloads. But they are still high and left at 50 yards. I need to take a six oclock right hand hold to get center hits on a larrue knock down silohuette. The 115's |
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Lampshade, you make an important observation about the white dot front sight.
When I shoot at close range, rapid fire, I do raise my front sight a bit so I can see the entire white dot. Taking a 6 oclock hold has always helped me align windage so it did not bother me. But at long range (over 25 yards) I slow down enough to make sure the front and rear sights are flat. I am probably seeing 85 % of the white front dot when the sights are properly aligned like that. I wrote that off to 60 year old eyes. Maybe not? I'm getting to the point where I need a loaf of bread for a front sight post. I did not think about just filing down the rear notch so it was closer to the white rear sight bar, but I might try that. I have a thin triangular file that might work I used once to adjust an express sight on a 450 Dakota rifle. It wont make up all the difference but it will help some. Good observation. Macantu, Good graphics. Thanks. |
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Round needle file needed. Literally a needle at tapered skinny end.
Harbour Freight. Get both the diamond ones and traditional file ones. Both not expensive. Triangle won't look right. Tape slide in front and behind sight so accidents don't cut slide. Start groove in middle from rear and only file forward so feathers are to front. Don't hit sides of notch. Make the groove deeper to the front and then its invisible from the rear. If instead you run it uphill toward the front, light reflects off the bottom of the groove. Photo: From rear end. 
Photo: From rear end and from angled down view. 
Push with one hand and nail/finger on other hand establishes left/right location while file hand goes straight fore and aft. Practice on something else. Clean file teeth so it cuts after a few strokes. Clean with a file card, brass brush, or brass/bronze wire brush. The original old/older plastic Glock sights cut like aluminum. The newer ones are softer plastic and harder to cut. They smear. Which is why you keep cleaning the file. Gotta pad slide in vise for control. Other wise the slide walks off and you wreck the notch. http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-needle-file-set-468.html http://www.harborfreight.com/needle-file-set-10-pc-69876.html The round ones are the ones to use. Or maybe the quarter moon. TAPE THE SLIDE TOP FORE AND AFT OF THE SIGHT. TWO LAYERS DUCT TAPE. The farther you advance the round file into the notch, the wider the groove gets as it goes deeper. That is the ideal "idea". Keep checking how it looks at arms length and don't over groove it. Stop when the whole dot is visible when the black tops are lined up. 
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Quoted: #0 for close and fast and #1 for precision. i've owned various Glocks over the last 20 years. What I have found is that with the OEM sights, #0 works for super close (out to about 3-5 yds) and #1 works for perfectly for 15 and 25 yds. are you saying that if you use sight picture #1 at 5-15 yds, you're hitting high? you said earlier that under 15 yds you raise the front sight to see the whole dot. dont do this. keep the tops of the front and rear sights level always and don't pay attention to if the bottom of the dot is slightly clipped |
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Macntu,
Yes I am hitting high even with a six oclock hold on a two inch targ dot. (Using sight picture #1). I have tried 9 different brands of ammo, 100, 115, 123 RN, 124 FP, and five brands of 147. Only the Federal 147 grain HST +P shoots on for elevation. Only the American Eagle 147 FMJ FN shoots on for windage. |