Posted: 5/2/2008 12:59:44 PM EDT
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heWhat is an external extractor? I think they are used on Kimber’s? How much $ are Springfield Operators starting at? |
Look at the following picture: See the oval slot behind the ejection port? That is an external extractor. It may be removed from the slide by taking it out from the side. An internal extractor (like the WWII 1911s) is invisible from the outside; it is removed from the rear of the slide after removing a pin or something. I don't know the pros and cons of external extractors. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a gun that has one, though. |
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This afternoon I spoke with an engineer at Kimber, and I asked him if Kimber still made weapons with the external extractor, as I have the TLE II, and like it. Kalifornia had demanded Kimber develop an external extractor, to double as a loaded chamber indicator. They did, it worked, and Kalifornia said it was no longer necessary. Kimber discontinued making weapons with the external extractor, as cost was prohibitive. I love mine, and wish it were still in production. I have one with, and one without. Both are totally reliable, and are covered for life, with parts replaced, or weapons repaired... Kimber is my favorite, and regardless of extractor, what I bet my life on... |
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I have to call BS. External extractors are considerably cheaper to machine than a properly fitted internal extractor. This is why companies keep flirting with the idea. Kimber stopped using them because they were tired of warranty repairs do to a lousy EE design. Smith seems to know how to make an EE that works properly, I wouldn't buy an EE design 1911 from anyone else though. |
Pretty much my understanding as well. |
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external extractors tend to have the extractor bar on the outside of the slides--they are simple drop in parts that fit into easier to machined areas (from the factory, not nececarily at home); they are usuallly pinned in place, or held down/through via spring tension laterally traditional 1911s have internal extractors--but the slides, if i'm correct, require more time and moeny to channel out at the factory; therefore, its cheaper for manfs to use external extractor drop ins kimber did have the external extractor (if you notice, its a shorter EE bar than the ones on the SW and DWs, etc--more along the length of the ones found on glocks, which might have contributed to thier problems) or the "tactical extractor", which they sited as being more reliable, etc (note: it was cheaper to manf); for a lot of users, it looked like sh*t and functioned like sh*t...kimber, imo, instead of admitting that thier EE sucked a**, decided to go back to the traditional IE after all the hassel thier EEs made SW's long bar EE seems to work very well, abet a few early problems of the claw breaking; while the EEs are cheaper and dont require (or cant be) tuned, the ones on most 1911s are also not easy to replace in the field or at home but require it to be sent to a smith or to the company to be replaced; IEs can be at home drop in parts (usually has to be tuned) Springer Operators...well, it depends on the model; the MC Operator is ~$950-$1050, depending |
| The external extractor was a solution to a problem that never was. Outside of it being cheaper to machine,smaller hole = less cost to manufacturer. They were also supposed to be tune-able via switching springs in them, I myself never cared for this or even tried just as long as the empty was out and loaded one went in the barrel. I believe wolf springs now only offers extra power extractor springs for them. |
EEs are cheaper, and have nothing to do with California. Kimber could have done what Springfield Armory did, simply notch a portion of the barrel hood away. |
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my kimber had a EE in it and it would jam 2 times out of 50 rounds approx, i called up kimber and told them and sent in the pistol the solution was: to put a new IE slide on it and it has been flawless since hope that helps! if you do get a EE kimber and are having problems give them a call and they will make it right |