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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 4/17/2006 4:54:09 PM EST
Ive always been taught and trained to shoot nice tight groups. Im a decent shot and has never been a problem. The last few months Ive talked to several LE who've told me to open up my shot placement. Specifically they've said to place each shot 5-6" apart so as to increase trauma. Im still inclined to shoot tight center mass (as in 2 to the chest 1 the head, as needed) but what are your guys thoughts?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:10:36 PM EST
Shoot COM, your shots may well open up considerably with stress and rapid fire. (just my 2 cents)
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:20:35 PM EST
When you shoot something living they tend to not remain stationary like a target.

Soooooo, after the first center of mass shot you will presented with another center of mass shot most probably at a different angle damaging a different organ/tissue group.


Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:28:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 5:29:27 PM EST by VBC]
The water ballon is in the middle. You could shoot all around the heart and miss all the arteries. I would keep shooting nice tight groups and a rapid pace. IMO.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:31:10 PM EST
If your groups are real tight, you can pick up your speed and remain on target.

Not only does it allow for more rounds into the target in a shorter time frame, but the wound cavities further apart will strike different organs and may cause the guy to bleed out faster.

Speed does not replace accuracy. You still need to hit where you want when the time comes, but opens your mind up into knowing that there is a time for accurate shots and a time for defensive shooting where you are just hitting the target.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 2:33:41 AM EST
Anyone that tells you your too accurate is a liar.
Paper is easy to hit, people are difficult.
All the advise on COM is ok, but I would recommend your first shot be aimed at the groin. On both sexes it is the least mobile and most damaging when hit.

Remember you are out to stop the threat!
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:36:52 AM EST
Double tap COM, if Mr. Badguy is still standing. one to the brain pan. There is no such thing as too accurate. IMHO.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:20:26 AM EST
During a defensive encounter things like 2 to COM and 1 to the head are completly negated. You will in high probability never be able to follow through with a tactic like this. COM is the largest available target and is what you should be aiming for. If you you have to shoot, shoot to kill not to injure. A single shot to the groin will be skewed by a compotent lawyer as an intent to purposely maim the perp and will be not be considered self-defense, because you took the time to aim for the groin you were not in fear for your life. That is not to say that if a round should hit there followed or succeeded by other shots that you will be defending yourself in court. In any situation the best thing you can have is training. GetofftheX is a great site with very knowledgable people and promotes a warrior/fighting mindset, lots of info as well. Check into live fire courses like Thunder Ranch. Most states have similar training facilities similar to this with live fire houses and low light training and tactics.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:21:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:
During a defensive encounter things like 2 to COM and 1 to the head are completly negated. You will in high probability never be able to follow through with a tactic like this. COM is the largest available target and is what you should be aiming for. If you you have to shoot, shoot to kill not to injure.



Agreed. but I feel that you should have a 'plan' on what you are going to do should the need arise. You don't want to be thinking about "where should I aim" in the defensive situation.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:53:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By jwkimber45:
Agreed. but I feel that you should have a 'plan' on what you are going to do should the need arise. You don't want to be thinking about "where should I aim" in the defensive situation.



Agreed. Having been in a self defense situation before I know that the things I had planned for went right out the window. There were other people in the room including a child and the armed bad guy, who was moving very quickly. The only thing I did do was react. My muscle memory was the only thing that was working untill after the shooting stopped. The only plan that stayed intact was what to do after the shooting like scanning for additional threats, disarming the perp and calling 911. A plan is a very good thing to have but shouldn't be set in stone when it comes to the actual firing of your weapon. If you train to do 3 shots on a stationary target you're muscle memory will only repeat your training. Keeping yourself adaptable by practicing shooting and moving, finding cover, and shooting at moving targets will insure that your instinctual reactions won't leave you limited to only stationary targets. You will only react the way you train. Your higher cognitive functions literaly shut down and your mind goes into primitive survival mode. That is why training is key.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:36:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 10:37:18 AM EST by Combat_Jack]
Don't make any effort to spread your shots out, just shoot faster. An instructor of mine once said, "if you are getting a tight group, you are shooting too slow!"
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 10:46:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By excist_and_reflect:

Originally Posted By jwkimber45:
Agreed. but I feel that you should have a 'plan' on what you are going to do should the need arise. You don't want to be thinking about "where should I aim" in the defensive situation.



Agreed. Having been in a self defense situation before I know that the things I had planned for went right out the window. There were other people in the room including a child and the armed bad guy, who was moving very quickly. The only thing I did do was react. My muscle memory was the only thing that was working untill after the shooting stopped. The only plan that stayed intact was what to do after the shooting like scanning for additional threats, disarming the perp and calling 911. A plan is a very good thing to have but shouldn't be set in stone when it comes to the actual firing of your weapon. If you train to do 3 shots on a stationary target you're muscle memory will only repeat your training. Keeping yourself adaptable by practicing shooting and moving, finding cover, and shooting at moving targets will insure that your instinctual reactions won't leave you limited to only stationary targets. You will only react the way you train. Your higher cognitive functions literaly shut down and your mind goes into primitive survival mode. That is why training is key.



Absolutly!!! Practice of all these is VERY important!!! You are NOT going to have the time to think about 'what to do' when SHTF. You must REACT out of instinct and training.
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