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Posted: 5/12/2001 9:09:37 AM EDT
I went to the local Armed Forces Day gathering with my friend,and we saw some neat aircraft and equipment.Everything was cool,except for some of the infantry guys we met.We went to an ARMY stand,and I held a SAW.I picked it up,and I manually cocked it.He looked at me suprised,as if he was amazed to see a civilian who knew what he was doing.I put it down,and he looked down at it,and even opened it up,while mumbling "look what you did" me and my friend walked away.What a moron.We then went to the Marine tent,where we handled another SAW,and we touched a .50 cal. We were NOT allowed to handle the f-cking M-16 though.Why did they let us handle the machinegun,but not the M-16.WTF.I was telling him how great I thought the 16 was.Some stupid guy walked up,the typical "fat,know it all" jerk who normally is found at these shows,and he mentions on how unreliable his AR-15 was.I went on on telling himhow the new ARs are among the most reliable,and accurate rifles around,and one Marine said "not as accurate as a PSG-1" I walked away.What a fu-cking dumbass.Comparing a M-16 to a PSg-1 sniper rifle.What a dumbass.I am joining the Marines soon,and I hope to God,that my squad is not filled with dumb fuck heads like that.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:18:06 AM EDT
Get used to it. Thats all that is in the grunt services. I shouldnt say all but way more than enough. You have to just nod and drive on or the stpid shit will drive you crazy. My platoon leader E=6 could not spell 'grab' without an 'I', over and over again
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:18:53 AM EDT
Get ready for a big let-down. Don't think that just 'caise they are Marines, or Soldiers, Sailors or Airmen that they know diddly about marksmanship. Or, about competitive shooting, or about weapons in general. The Armed Forces are high-tech now, and the trend is away from weapons handling and marksmanship fundimentals. MOST(not all)service folks are wanna-be snipers. And would'nt know a NMM16A2 from a regular issue. They could'nt tell you the proper way to zero their individual weapon if their life depended on it. The problem is that someday their life may very well depend on it. Lew
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:26:06 AM EDT
we were shocked,we possibly knew more about the weapons then they did.If we had questions about the weapon,they had to reffer to a big tablet,so they could slowly read off the info.Pretty dissapointing,but the aviators were pretty pleasant to talk to.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:30:30 AM EDT
WE always are, and... we have cool toys.. [8D] Aviator
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:30:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2001 9:30:18 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:33:20 AM EDT
There was also a big,custom red Marine hummer there,with these LOUD speakers blaring rap music,and all these thug looking guys were around it.Our tax dollars hard at work
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:52:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sofa_King: There was also a big,custom red Marine hummer there,with these LOUD speakers blaring rap music,and all these thug looking guys were around it.Our tax dollars hard at work
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Hey give em a break! You have any idea how hard it is to recruit in this current political climate and with the current military pay scale? A Marine recruiter I know can't wait to rejoin the fleet because of the attitude he puts up with every day out of civilians so it works both ways. He counts the days... We are reaping the result of talking down those that serve this country in military service. They know they are appreciated by only a few... [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:56:04 AM EDT
Yeah,you are right.I'm just very dissapointed after talking to those Marines.I was really excited about it.The Army guy could barely speak english.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:09:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sofa_King: I went on on telling himhow the new ARs are among the most reliable,and accurate rifles around,and one Marine said "not as accurate as a PSG-1" I walked away.What a fu-cking dumbass.Comparing a M-16 to a PSg-1 sniper rifle.What a dumbass.I am joining the Marines soon,and I hope to God,that my squad is not filled with dumb fuck heads like that.
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Ah, you have obviously spoken with a truly enlightened soul that was well versed in the finer points of a gov't low bid contract service weapon for the masses as opposed to the high end of specialized tactical sniper weaponry. All that follows is as per a STA platoon member in my reserve unit: While evaluating what the next sniper weapon would be for the USMC the HK PSG 1 was considered along with others weapon systems. Besides it being a non-bolt action, my friend stated that the PSG 1 threw(ejected) the spent brass casings a ridiculous distance(40-60 feet) from the shooter's position. He stated that one casing ended up in the range tower.(?) With this feature, it made the practice of carting your brass away with you as you egress leaving no evidence behind almost impossible. I've found that people you think would be in the know or have a certain level of knowledge because of their posion or job can sometimes be the most ignorant dope you'd meet. I work with many cops (I'm a paramedic)who at best know their sidearm is a Sig and a 9mm. They don't know what type of round it fires, and probably couldn't clear a malfunction if their life depended on it, which someday it may! If you make a point to be knowledgeable about your job, gear and station in life and surround yourself with like people you tend to rise above the ignorant dopes like that Marine. Maybe he was a pogue just looking to show off for a day!
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:34:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sofa_King: Yeah,you are right.I'm just very dissapointed after talking to those Marines.I was really excited about it.The Army guy could barely speak english.
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Sofa_King - I can appreciate your dissapointment - there always have been and unfortunately always will be those who do not represent the uniform very well. Could be that they were having to deal with a lot of jerks and were just wishing they were elsewhere that day. Don't let a bad experience keep you from serving if that is what you have in mind. You now know what not to do if you have the opportunity to represent this great nation as a part of it's military ranks. You go in and do it right! Look at it this way... having to do all the low life jobs while a draft dodger sat in the White House for 8 years would tend to make anybody a bit sour.... [:(!] [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:43:05 AM EDT
Go for the special ops units, these are the true warriors. IMO half of the infantry pogues are there because they don't have enough brains for anything else.........Nomex on!
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:48:02 AM EDT
Sofa_king, I wouldn't let you handle my rifle if I were at a dog-and-pony show. It's just one of those things. (Although If I knew you were an AR15.com member I would) Would you want 600 people wiping their snot on a rifle that you are responsible for? Don't be too hard on those dumb schmucks. First, I'll bet that they weren't infantrymen, so they may not be "up to speed" on everything. Second, they might not know everything, and have some misconceptions about various weapon systems, but since when were we looking for a few good rocket scientists? I had a guy in my platoon who thought that the AK47 was superior to the M16 because they it could use our ammo if necessary. Dumb huh? But so what? He could handle his rifle just fine, and was a big, fearsome bastard who obeyed orders and pulled his weight. If you think that the military is full of Navy SEAL look-alikes, well, stand by to be disappointed. Likewise if you think your training will be nothing but shooting. First of all: We are not all members of the "super-elite." The best you can probably do is to enlist for the Marine Infantry or, barring that, go Army and put in for Airborne or the Rangers. You will get good training, but you will also have to put up with bullshit that you cannot imagine. Second: There is more to training than going to the range and busting caps. Most of your training will not involve shooting at all. Firing your weapon, after all, is only the enjoyable culmination of a lengthy movement to contact. In other words, "seeking out and closing with the enemy" will take a lot more time and effort than "destroying him with fire and maneuver." Get used to it. I understand that real warfare is like that too.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 1:19:27 PM EDT
Thanks guys:) When I first posted this,I thought I would probably get flamed by other members with replies such as "how dare you insult our brave men/women in uniform" and whatnot.I'm glad to know that it was'nt just me who have had these experiences.On that note,how easy is it to get into Marine Recon/Army Rangers? These are elite groups,but they seem to be large groups,so I was wondering what I would have to do during my time as a grunt to get there.Also,on that note as well,should I go Army,or the Marines? I've been thinking about joining the Marines for quite some time,but I would like to hear something from guys who have been Army.It could be a decisive factor in my decision,after all,guys who have done the service are the ones who are willing to tell me what the friendly recruitment guys are not.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 1:46:11 PM EDT
Interesting. I spent 4 years inthe Navy as a CTT intercepting soviet communications. I spent a few years in the Army National Guard as a Commo SGT in an ADA unit. (while I was finsishing college getting a BA and an MA). I then taught 1 year in JHS and HS and returned to the military. My last 16 years were in the Army. I retired from the Army in 1991 and have been teaching since then. The Army is a good place to make rank and travel. The Marines are good too. If you are married or are thinking about it join the Air Force. There are stupid people all over the place. I ran into a bunch of them in the Army. The Marines have good public relations. But when you are in it won't seem so good. The stupid people are in civilian life also, you may not have to deal with them. In the military you often don't have a choice. You learn the system and survive. For technical training I'd recomment the Air Force or the Navy. The Army is BIG so there is more choice. Put your money down and take your chance. I don't regret a bit of it...well maybe the Fifth Infantry Division at Ft Polk, but that is another story. John MSG USA (retired)
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 1:49:08 PM EDT
I better check for typos. finishing, oops
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 1:51:04 PM EDT
As a disclaimer, let me say that I am one of the few ex-Marines you will talk to who was not, repeat, not Recon or a sniper. I started as a tanker and made a lateral move into the Infantry for my second enlistment. If you want to go marine Recon, you should enlist as a Grunt, do a couple of years in the Fleet Marine Force (FMF) and then put in for Recon. Selection is highly competative. The physical standards are pretty rigorous, even for the Marines. You should definently be a Marine if for no other reason than we have done a better job of resisting "feminization" than the other services. Plus you will not have to wear a Black Beret that you did not earn, or hang out with people who do. Don't sell the regular infantry short. I think we have some pretty good "bragging rights." Regular infantry is harder, physically, than the high-speed stuff if only because you carry more weight, stay in the field longer, and take a lot more crap. Not meaning to sell SEALs and RECON short, but heavy regular infantry has its uses. You might try to get into a "Raid" company. I don't know if they still call them this. I was in Kilo 3/8 which was 3/8's designated Raid company. Whatever the case, they train for amphibious raids and small boat operations. Pretty cool. On the same subject, get into a "float" regiment that sends Battalion Landing Teams on six-month deployments (floats). These are a lot of fun, you get some good liberty, and some good training. For God's sake, don't enlist to learn a trade. You'll regret it later when you have to lie about your military service.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:03:48 PM EDT
thanks guys,I was planning on going in as a rifleman anyhow.Anybody do college while doing infantry? I want to get a degree just as a "fail safe" and another thing I can call my own.Also,one of my friends wants to get in with a GED,but for some reason they won't let him.This sorta makes me pissed,since he is a super-cool person,and he's very intelligent.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:05:40 PM EDT
SofaKing - Don't let the masses get you down. Follow your plans, maybe make it a career. Try to get into an "elite" (man, I hate that word in this context) unit as soon as you can, even if your have to extend your enlsitment. Do it! USMC? Recon / Force Recon / F.A.S.T. / Direct Action. Navy - SEALs Army? Rangers Air Force? Para Rescue Coast Guard -? [heavy]
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:20:29 PM EDT
Gus Laskaris, No disrespect to anyone, but I have noticed the same thing about all branches of the service.. I spent over two tours in SEAsia. After the first tour? The extensions were in units of 6 months That meant I got to take a lot of R&R's.. One thing I noticed every time I took an R&R. Always very few grunts. Mostly other MOS's.. The Army said the ratio was seven to one, 7 support for one in the field.. So what I saw was to be expected.. Since I have been out?? I have rarely met any one that was NOT line infrantry. Sofa_King, Get the degree first.. I live on the west side of Ft Bragg. Three of my neighbors (Major and two CW3's) are in 7th Group SF, two others are in the military as doctors.. They all have degrees and Master's Degree's.. The Major is a west pointer, the others got their degrees paid for by the Army while on active duty. The only bad part? Is the Army will only offers certain types of Master's programs.. International Affairs and Security etc.. If you are interested? I can walk across the street and get the scoop.. You can not enlist for SOCOM, Special Operations COMmand.. Nowadays, you need to have a few years and E5 (I think) before you can go into SF training. They are trying to prevent people like me from happening again.. LOL!
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:21:45 PM EDT
Sofa King (says a lot about you) You better just keep your happy ass on your sofa. The shitbags that they send to do those dog and pony shows are boot, pogue MF's that don't know shit from shinola. Those Marines and Army Dogs you saw were probably typewriter jockeys and were just snatched up out of Conad to go post in that circle jerk. They are thrown on a static weapons display to stand there, look the part and entertain armchair quarterbacks just like you on a subject they know nothing about. Then if it couldn't get any worse...90% of the losers that frequent those shows are all knowing, snot nosed, wannabe, weapons experts just like you and it's the blind leading the blind. Do you really think an Infantry Marine would let a nasty pig like you finger fuck his weapon?? Do you think an Infantry Marine, the backbone of the Corps would even be there?? Think again. If and when your ass does decide to contribute instead of criticize and join the U.S. Armed forces then what im saying here and today will ring clear as a bell. When civilians post threads about something they know absoulutly nothing about it really sends me high and to the fucking right. Sofa, you better just practice your "YES SIR" "NO SIR" routine and if you do decide to enlist in the Corps you will definitly be hearing this every day all day. "GET IN THE PIT". Get your hands out of your pants, sign the papers on the dotted line and show everyone here your metal. Two years, 200 forced marches, one pump overseas and 2000 miles in your jungle boots later, carrying the same POS silver stallion M-16 or most likely in your case an omellette spatula... You come and post here again. I guarantee that you will be whistling a different tune. Let's go O3 Marines and 11 Bravo Soldiers, Former, reserve or Active duty sound off on this one and set this guy straight. Semper-Fi and remember O3's KILL!!![sniper]
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:33:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2001 2:33:29 PM EDT by Aviator]
03SKill.... Relax Francis... Sofa King. The Army is not bad, but it IS big. The one thing you might have on your side in an infantry MOS is that most of the people in those jobs have shall we say, less than average intelligence. I DID say MOST for all you grunts out there. This gives you the upper hand in promotions. Imagine a Platoon Leader looking into his formation and seeing mostly blank stares back, and one or two pairs of intelligent looking eyes. Guess who is going under the Lts wings? Whichever branch you select, keep your mouth shut, do your job as best you can, and enjoy the people you are with if nothing else. Aviator
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:33:40 PM EDT
Ya sure, go with the Rangers, they are elite, can't fight for shit but look cool. Or even better, go Marine sniper/recon, they are the real bad boys. But if you really want to make a difference, go to collage get a degree, and then become a good officer, as an infantry PSG I found good 2LT. few and far between. But I trained a couple. Oh the other hand if you decide not to serve you are going to hate your self in the morning. SFC(ret) Rew E. Williams
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:51:23 PM EDT
O3SKILL,all the posts up to YOURS have been constructive.Yours was just fucking offensive.I'm sorry you had a bad day. As for you bashing my name "Sofa_King" please DO NOT assume this name represents ME.It's a joke screen name.Please chill out.I am not an armchair commando,but I know a little.Also,you just dunked on an 18 year old,looking for some advice from guys who "did the deed" so please,chill out.And yes,I assumed the guys at the tents were not "combat" pukes.I will serve,NOT serving to me was NEVER an option,my father was in the British Marines,my grandad was in a British tank battalian in WW2.Thanks to everyone else who posted,it's all been noted down,and I'm greatful.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 2:53:45 PM EDT
O3SKILL,all the posts up to YOURS have been constructive.Yours was just fucking offensive.I'm sorry you had a bad day. As for you bashing my name "Sofa_King" please DO NOT assume this name represents ME.It's a joke screen name.Please chill out.I am not an armchair commando,but I know a little.Also,you just dunked on an 18 year old,looking for some advice from guys who "did the deed" so please,chill out.And yes,I assumed the guys at the tents were not "combat" pukes.I will serve,NOT serving to me was NEVER an option,my father was in the British Marines,my grandad was in a British tank battalian in WW2.Thanks to everyone else who posted,it's all been noted down,and I'm greatful.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:04:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 80906: Ya sure, go with the Rangers, they are elite, can't fight for shit but look cool. SFC(ret) Rew E. Williams
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It`s "very cool", thank you very much. Thanks for pointing out how worthless we are. We really do just sit around and talk weapons, and borrow Kiwi from E7`s and above.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:08:13 PM EDT
Talk to your recruiter(s) about it. If he/they think(s) you might change your mind, maybe you'll get a better contract or a bonus thrown in.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:25:41 PM EDT
In Basic Training My platoon sgt was introducing us to the M16 A1, I knew that most of the Army had switched to a chrome lined bore but didnt know if the trainees got the older stuff. So, in the middle of his tirade he asked if any one had any questions. Once more I raised my hand, "what is it 314?" "Drill sgt xxxxxx, Private 314, asks permission to speak." "SPEAK" " Drill sgt xxxxxx, the pvt was wondering if these are the new chrome lined bores?" "WTF are you worthless whale exrement talking about? This is a combat weapon. This aint no gangtser GUN. Chrome????? Why would we have chrome on these weapons, you low life........ Drill sgt xx we have us a WE-a-pons EXpert here, come here 314." As he was busy talking to the other D/S I quickly looked for some sign on the weapon that it was indeed a chrome lined bore. And there it was on the barrel.'M16A1 chrome lined bore' I thought I was saved. I ran up to him as he summoned, with the rifle and let him vent some more. Then I made an enemy of my D/S "Drill sgt xxxxxx, pvt 314 request permission to speak." "SPEAK" "Drill sgt xxxxxx, I was asking about the bore. It says right here on the barrel, 'chrome lined'" All the other trainees looked at their weapon and saw it did indeed say 'chrome lined bore'. I didnt smile, but stood straighter, the other D/S that gathered faded away at his obvious embarassment. "Sit down, 314" I thought I came out of that clean, WRONG. He rode me harder, made me squad leader and expected more from me. Gone was the notion of being the 'grey man'. When it came time for the rifle phase, I was singled out every time to be first and he expected hawkeye perfomance each and every time. He is what drove me to be better, I knew I was smarter than him and was not going to be embarassing me.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:35:44 PM EDT
Rick, Loved looking kewl... Now us'ins?? We were ahead of our time, wearing dewrags, but sadly the color selection was limited.. We wore tie dyed fatigues too. Tied knots in them and dyed them with coffee.. I always wanted to wear sandals to complete my beatnik poet image..
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 3:39:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HDR: Rick, Loved looking kewl... Now us'ins?? We were ahead of our time, wearing dewrags, but sadly the color selection was limited.. We wore tie dyed fatigues too. Tied knots in them and dyed them with coffee.. I always wanted to wear sandals to complete my beatnik poet image..
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Yea, yea, all that and underwear with lace. An Army type man must be prepared for the unforseen. At least none of us wore a white feather in our cover. (ducking and scurrying out of the line of fire)whoooosh
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 4:21:00 PM EDT
I totally agree with Garand Shooter. This is the kind of sh!+ the recruiters have to work with. Maybe as smart as you are they will let you start as a D.I. the very first day! As for Rangers or Recon they are both "easy" as you put it, just ask anyone who has done it. Nomex on.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 4:47:36 PM EDT
03shooter,you suck.I never stated getting to ranger/Recon as being easy.I've got a friend who was in airborne,and I've talked with a guy who is currently force recon.Both stated how it's incredibly difficult.I was merely asking what was required.Quit being a lame-ass jerk 03shooter.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 4:53:23 PM EDT
Been there, done that. You haven't. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 5:03:00 PM EDT
SF is having manpower problems. They decreased the number of teams by one that make up an SF Company. Filled up the teams better. I went thru SF school in the mid 1960's. It was not a cake walk then. Now? It is even harder because there is a lot more, especially technology, to learn. Rick, lace? Wow, the new action Army.. We just went without underwear or socks. Always wet, the more layers of clothes? The more varieties of "ick" that grew.... Ahhh the thoughts of a still tropical night under a full moon, salting leeches and watching the skinless squirm.. Nothing like some true tales of war atrocities! LOL!
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 5:53:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 6:37:28 PM EDT
Sofa, sorry that you had a bad experience at the AF Day gathering. What some have said is right. #1 these guys were probably not liking what they were doing and if they were then they are probably not what you want to be. #2 not all military personnel are this way. Most are great guys and gals serving their country. And it is true that until you've been there you really don't know. Don't judge them by the one experience. There are two sides to every story and it could have been a bad day for all around. Maybe in three years someone else will post about you. :D I love the "fat know it all jerks" because I can yank their chain on some things and it is really funny. One guy who is a friend of my bosses son told me that he was a Recon Marine and had already had to kill 10 people. This guy was in only two years at the time. He told me that he had been to Saudi, Iraq, Bosnia, Syria, Israel and Greece on some ops. :) I asked him what sidearm he carried and he thought it was an H&K but wasn't sure. Wasn't sure of the caliber either but said that it was silenced and all. I had some fun with him. My cousin, USMC Captain, said that the best advice he was given when commissioned was. "Shut up and listen to the Sergeants". It worked. Best of luck in the Service. cajun1
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:01:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2001 7:01:28 PM EDT by sigman]
Sofa-king,as far as how hard is it to be a ranger? I have a friend that is in the 82nd airborne that has tried out for the rangers twice and been dropped twice.This guy isn't a loser either,if he can't make it through I wonder if I can if I ever get that far. As far as Rangers being worthless but cool looking,did'nt rangers serve as shock/reaction troops for Delta teams during the gulf war? Coarse I guess Delta would use any warm body the found on a street corner,right? [rolleyes] Sigman out.......still working on the commision
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:05:09 PM EDT
some of you guys miss the point, if you tell a D.I. or a D.S. or what ever, that the world is round, he'll prove you wrong. as far as the grunts knowing all the technical stuff about the weapons, who gives a damn? as long as they can kill the sob who's trying to kill him i cant really see the significance in this thread. thats why they have those dickheads that work in the armory.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:10:22 PM EDT
Sofa King- Just listen to Striker and ignore the rest, including all those with the experience you are asking about. Sigman what I think he was talking about was the Mog TF Ranger debacle. Some Delta guys were less than happy with the Rangers that day. According to Blackhawk Down which is where the SFC probably got his opinion. On the streets of Mogadishu. The Rangers have a proud history otherwise. Personaly I think they did OK. Talked to one who made the second trip on the convoy. he said the Delta boys didnt like them before either so make your own desicion
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:18:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:21:10 PM EDT
880906 Spoken like a true jealous wannabe. You couldnt lift a Ranger ruck to save your pathetic leg remf life. SoFucking you 'know it alls' should join the civil air patrol and dont waste real soldiers time.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:24:18 PM EDT
And another thing know it all sofucking, you never, never pull the charging handle rearward on a SAW without opening the feed tray cover first. PERIOD. But I guess you knew that, but just forgot to mention it when you opened this thread exclaiming how much more you knew than the soldiers.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:25:02 PM EDT
Amen to Brother Pompey. I swear to you that until I got out of the Marines the only weapons I ever handled were the ones issued to me. An FAL, for example, would have been a complete mystery to me. (But now I own one) I never even saw a gun until I enlisted. I want to again disabuse Sofa_King of the notion that he will be shooting every day once he enlists. I'm afraid this is just not the case. Now, my experiences are from the mid-eigthies to the early nineties so things may have changed, but I doubt it. Take Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training, for example. Typically your battalion will spend an entire month at the Mountain Warfare Training Center near Bridgeport, California. In one month of extremely difficult training you will not fire your weapon once. (We did get issued blanks, but I generally avoided using them and "lost" them if I could.) So what do you do with all that time? Well, you learn how to rappel, how to tie knots, and how to rock-climb (with safety lines, thank God). You practice tactics, and you hump up and down the mountains with heavy packs, simulating closing to contact, making contact, assaulting, and breaking contact with a notional enemy. I swear I didn't fire a single round the whole time, and yet it was excellent training. Both physically and mentally challenging, which in times of peace is the only way to build esprit de corps. (In a way that no general issue of black berets ever will.) Most training evolutions are like that. The live fire exercises are relatively rare and are strictly controlled. Most of the weapons training is done at a range. My point is: Shooting is the easy part. Most Marines are pretty good shots, at least on the rifle range. (There were not too many people with pizza boxes in my company). Hopefully, the weapons skill can be integrated with the maneuver skill when the time comes.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:27:19 PM EDT
Sofa King, if you go Army 11B get Airborne and Ranger in your contract go to both of these schools right after Basic no BSing around with your first 10 day leave go straight through and do it. It'll be tough, stay focused, stay alert, and pay attention to details, and you'll be alright. Oh, thanks Pompey I was one of those dickheads that kept your weapon running, and made sure it was cleaned properly, and no I was not 76Y I was 11B.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 7:30:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Sofa King- Just listen to Striker and ignore the rest, including all those with the experience you are asking about. Sigman what I think he was talking about was the Mog TF Ranger debacle. Some Delta guys were less than happy with the Rangers that day. According to Blackhawk Down which is where the SFC probably got his opinion. On the streets of Mogadishu. The Rangers have a proud history otherwise. Personaly I think they did OK. Talked to one who made the second trip on the convoy. he said the Delta boys didnt like them before either so make your own desicion
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OK,Rick I am following you,but one question.I thought Delta recruited Rangers and Special Forces{some of them being ex-ranger}So other than feeling superior{i.e "I'm Delta,your not" type of thing}being higher on the SOCOM pyramid would'nt alot of the Delta operators be ex-rangers? PS I'm still a cake eater so I probaly don't know what I am talking about,also thanks for all that you and HDR and all other snake eaters have done.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 8:26:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 8:47:55 PM EDT
mushoot, a Lightning Fast Chicken Plucker...eh? Damn.... and T at that ... ditties with a stick... Ted...
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 9:54:01 PM EDT
O.K. Thats about enough of the chest beating. Sofa, I have had the honor of being both a Marine and a Soldier. For the last couple of years I worked under the US Army recruiting command. And having been both, I have a good idea of what both services are about. I have friends that are Rangers, FAST company Marines, SEALs, Recon, Special Forces, etc etc etc. If (even after the flaming) you still desire to serve your country, then here is the advice of a shooter/Marine/Soldier: Go to all of the recruiters, talk to all of them, get your best deal, and the MOS (job) that you want. You will not be a Ranger, Marine, Special Forces, SEAL, or anything else, unless it is in you to do so. Lew Tippie By the way, Recruits at P.I. and San Diego get their Emblem before graduation now. I been there, done that, also. Now leave the kid alone.
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:06:49 PM EDT
on the average the marines and soldiers we have now are some of the brightest individuals around. compare this with 1940 and you will agree. not to wory in the infantry or 03 feild the dumb ones are weeded out quickly. kind of simple ...the smart ones dont catch too much lead...it takes a lot of brain to be a good combat soldier despite what many think..pat
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:12:47 PM EDT
I only have three words: AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL Get your training ( the best is in the Air force or Navy) Go to work for The FAA and make over 100k a year. Mike
Link Posted: 5/12/2001 10:44:38 PM EDT
Back in the day of Rickover in the Nuclear navy, the rules were whatever Rickover decided they would be. Our most competent junior officer came out of the merchant marine academy as a reservist. One of our best graduated with a degree in theology - as far away from engineering as you could imagine. As far as the ring knockers go, the acadamy messed with their heads too bad to be better than the average ROTC guy. If they ever get serious about military reform, they should shut down the academies first.
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