[ARCHIVED THREAD] - child support ?? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/12/2013 9:11:30 AM EDT
|
Thinking of changing jobs to a lower paying one (new career). I have heard that support will almost never be lowered because of some "ability to earn" bullshit. True? |
|
Not sure about CO but that definitely holds true to CA. You would have to be fired from current job then hired by new company then file an OSC to petition the court for recalculation of new support based upon revised earnings. You would also have to document attempts to find work in similar field and at similar wage before the court will consider it. Edit: Court does not care if you want to change careers, you have the potential to earn X dollars and if you take a lower paying position or career, you did that voluntarily and in the courts eyes it is detrimental to the support of your children and will hold you to the higher earnings. |
|
You'll need a court order to reduce the previously court-ordered payment, and the likelihood of getting it OK'd by a man-hating judge (yes, even if it's a male judge) when this is a voluntary move is just slightly above the chance of being hit by lightning. If you were married, it wouldn't be a problem. But now the State is your wife and your ex-wifes pimp. |
|
I went to court to have mine reduced and the fucking judge keeps finding reasons to continue. How would it look if I hired an attorney to represent me when my goal is to reduce my child support because I can no longer pay the amount set by the court 7 years ago So I use a court facilitator.
So I go in in front of the judge not really knowing shit about the law or the language they are using and my Ex wife doesn't even bother to show up but instead sends her attorney. Of course her attorney goes through my paperwork and finds mistakes and the judge continues the hearing until I correct the issues. Funny thing is my wife is paying way more in attorney fees than I am asking for in the reduction. The whole system is fucked. Worst part is I have 2 of my children living full time with me and still pay her for all 3 
Sorry for the hi jack. . |
|
Shit, after all these years or reading about this stuff here at arfcom, and, personally having the pleasure of experiencing the brutal one-way antics of the Child Support Enforcement Division in New Mexico....
There is a better than average chance of you having your payments or garnishment increased if you do contact the case officer or court or however they do things in your state. It is always better to leave the Child Support Enforcement sleeping dog just lay there....don't f*cking kick it.  
|
|
Only way I have seen it stick is if you enlist as an E1.
State court does not trump Federal. I saw an Engineer making $100,000 year 3 years ago do this after a divorce after his ex-wife spent all the money on surgerys. She now gets 18% of an E-1 salary.
Moral of the Story: If you are willing to take the pain, you can cause alot in return. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a good bet that your support obligation will remain the same since you are doing this by choice. this. here you can still petition the court but the odds of it happening are close to nill. See post above. There is an out, but it would be painfull. |
|
I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is the sad irony of our society. If a mother is unable to support her children, she doesn't go to jail, she get's government assistance. She isn't humiliated by being arrested and thrown in a cage. In fact, our society does everything possible NOT to make the handout seem humiliating. We don't want to make people feel bad for taking money from the others through the government. BUT, for a divorced father? We arrest that loser, at gun point and through him in a cage! |
|
Quoted: I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is why people in this situation commit suicide. |
|
Quoted: How does Colorado go about enforcing support on non-paying parents? What's the process? No idea my case is on another state. The state that the case is in is WI. I know that in WI once you have a job it takes them about a month to find you and start witholding. There really is no way to dodge paying unless you work for cash or switch jobs every month or two. Once you get a couple of months behind you are considered in contempt and a warrant is issued. I have no problem with CS but the whole shared lifestyle, ability to earn shit is BS. I had true 50/50 and still paid because I made more money, complete BS IMHO. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is why people in this situation commit suicide. I can say without a doubt that it will, at the very least, have you contemplating it constantly. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is why people in this situation commit suicide. I can say without a doubt that it will, at the very least, have you contemplating it constantly. The really sad thing is this guy was a "producer". He was well respected, earned a good income, paid his taxes, and was a productive member of society. He was also a good man, and father. To see this happen to him is gut-wrenching. It's completely illogical, and unjust. |
|
OP Child Support Enforcement is government. In case you'v not noticed, government does not believe in "cutting" anything, ever. The people who work in government act as if the economy only grows, incomes remain stable and rise over time, and their is no ebb and flow to finances. That's how people who work in government view the world. Case in point, the current hoopla over a 2% cut in budget. To people who work in government that's "financial armageddon". Child Support Enforcement is no different then the rest of government. They operate in a bubble "fantasy financial world". A law can make reality.
|
|
The man should pay and provide what would be expected to keep the child healthy, comfortable and provide a reasonable lifestyle of happiness.
Anything after that, especially when towards the woman's extra-curricular exploits and wastes, should be avoided. But...that's too simple. |
|
It happened to me over 20 years ago, so I'm sure it is still in effect today.
20 years ago, during a divorce I lost a good paying job, but got another lower paying job. Let's say the job I lost paid $10 and hour, but the new job only paid $5 an hour. Instead of basing my child support on my current salary, Domestic Relations based my support on my previous job, because that is what I was making at the time I had the kids. When I complained, the ass-wipe said because I had the "potential" to make $10 an hour, that it what they were going to adhere to. When asked where I was supposed to get a $10 an hour job, the ass-wipe basically said; It's not his concern! Oh, and don't even try getting something in writing about your ex-wife having to tell you when and how the support money is spent. I complained about that issue too, saying that if I was still married, I would know when and where every dime was being spent. I wasn't trying to take away from the kids, I was just trying to wipe the smug look off my ex's face because she just looked at the support as free money. The DR officer again said; Not his concern. They don't tell a parent who is receiving support, how to spend the money. |
|
Quoted:
Thinking of changing jobs to a lower paying one (new career). I have heard that support will almost never be lowered because of some "ability to earn" bullshit. True?
shit, I lost my job (layoff) and still had to pay. there was a huge aviation layoff, if I could find a job to make that money I would have... didn't matter that there were no jobs to be had, I still had to pay the full amount. 
|
|
There are no good experiences with Family Law for men period. Done paying on my first child, 5 mores years on my second. I don't tip the cart, kick the sleeping dog or whatever saying you want to apply here. Why? because anything that draws me back into the family law court will surely end up with me having a big crusty thick veiny cock broken off in my ass. There is no equality in that legal scenario. |
|
The problem as always, is that there is nothing resembling morality or actually caring about children that goes on in this disgrace, it's all about money.
Billions of dollars go through the state's coffers every month in every state, or more truthfully, though banks like Chase, who have bribed states officials for years to get these ridiculous and draconian laws to pass, so they can generate massive amounts of cash flow, which the banks then use to make more money, the state gets their cut, and after a couple of weeks of other people using that money, the mother gets the payment, sometimes several weeks later, and frequently money is just simply never sent and the state claims the man missed one or more payments. I seriously doubt there's an actual accounting of any of the money, most states have just rolled it into the general fund a la social security, doubtful if they they could pay it all upon demand. And if the father reaches a point where he is unemployed, tapped out, completely broke, then the state still has a way to make money off of him, throw him in jail and charge the taxpayers 75-80 thousand dollars per year for keeping him incarcerated. As always, follow the trail of the buck if you want the truth, it's never personal, it's always about business. If something seems insane, you simply need to think about who is profiting from it. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is why people in this situation commit suicide. I can say without a doubt that it will, at the very least, have you contemplating it constantly. The really sad thing is this guy was a "producer". He was well respected, earned a good income, paid his taxes, and was a productive member of society. He was also a good man, and father. To see this happen to him is gut-wrenching. It's completely illogical, and unjust. And his story is re-told 1000 times a day, to a new person each time. 
|
|
It'll remain the same and it's B/S if a person changes jobs with lower pay doesn't always means it's a bad decision in the long run. If you were still married to mom the way of living should change so why not C/S.
C/S is scam of sorts and earning potential is B/S if no one is hiring in your field. |
|
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is why people in this situation commit suicide or kill their ex also. This also through no fault of the child causes some paying parent to resent their kids. I never understood the well we're going to put you in jail for not paying. Well if I'm in jail I can't pay and I'm probably going to lose my job. Honestly a person should pay to help take care of their kids but I think if you want custody of your child that you just may have to go it alone and not count on C/S. My ex hasn't paid one bit of her child support and it's not some ungodly amount either. Yeah I could go to court and do all that stuff but I'm happy to have custody and trying to put her in jail does nothing for me or our son other than maybe some brief revenge/payback. I got a kid to raise, forget .gov trying to put their hand in it |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? You go to fucking jail. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? You go to fucking jail. Nice to see we've brought back debtor's prison. 
|
|
Quoted: Thinking of changing jobs to a lower paying one (new career). I have heard that support will almost never be lowered because of some "ability to earn" bullshit. True? Don't know about your state but in NY they usually make you keep paying based on the old, higher paying job. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? You go to fucking jail. Nice to see we've brought back debtor's prison. That's exactly what it is, and it benefits the family not at all, but then again, that's not really the point. |
|
Quoted: I've gotten guys' support lowered when they lost income through no fault of their own. There is a bias against it with many hearing officers but mostly it's winnable in my experience if it's legit and somewhat proveable.I'm very concerned about a friend of mine going through this right now. Through no fault of his own his income fell dramatically. In my opinion he's gone through catastrophic financial failure. From another thread: "A wife divorces here husband for irreconcilable difference in 2003. Her income was 75k, his was around $200k. He wanted his children, fought, but lost. They share custody but the father is the non-custodial parent. He spent as much time as he was allowed but the mother and children lived in another town. All remains fairly constant, until 2008. That year the fathers income peaked at $290k. He paid over $60k in taxes (state, federal, and local) He also paid $60k in "after-tax" child support to the mother. The financial crisis hit and his income was crushed. He made less then $135k but still paid still paid $60k in child support. He sold assets, moved into a modest apartment. and cut expense. His ex knew his situation and his financial struggled. 2012 after barely making over a 100k each year his assets were depleted, he fell behind. His ex took him to court. A proud man, who had always paid his bills he went. The ex had a "relationship" with the son of a prominent family in the town in which court was held, the judge and boyfriend where friends. After showing the court the realities of his situation the judge threw him in jail with a 100% purge. He had to pay all arrears to get out. He borrowed money from his family to get out of jail. But it took 14 days. He spent that time in a cell block with criminals. He lost his job and reputation. He filed for a modification, now unemployed with zero income. The modification hearing was held, the judge gave him a temporary reduction to $4200 per month for 90 days, which he wasn't able to maintain fully. Now he is unemployed, with $4200 per month child support. He goes back to court later this month and may go back to jail." At least in Georgia, I don't think "voluntarily" lowering your income has a snowball's chance in hell of lowering your child support. This is the sad irony of our society. If a mother is unable to support her children, she doesn't go to jail, she get's government assistance. She isn't humiliated by being arrested and thrown in a cage. In fact, our society does everything possible NOT to make the handout seem humiliating. We don't want to make people feel bad for taking money from the others through the government. BUT, for a divorced father? We arrest that loser, at gun point and through him in a cage! |
|
Quoted:
That's exactly what it is, and it benefits the family not at all, but then again, that's not really the point. I was honestly surprised to learn that. I've heard horror stories from forums like this, but that's pretty bad. I'm surprised people just take that to be honest. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
That's exactly what it is, and it benefits the family not at all, but then again, that's not really the point. I was honestly surprised to learn that. I've heard horror stories from forums like this, but that's pretty bad. I'm surprised people just take that to be honest. http://i45.tinypic.com/1zwn2hf.jpg Nobody really takes it to be honest, but your options are-pay up, go to jail, or kill yourself. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? You go to fucking jail. First, they send your bill into the stratosphere so the numbers seem insurmountable. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true in Ohio. If you voluntarily take a lower paying job no matter what your reason then you're screwed and will continue to pay child support based on your higher earning job. Out of curiosity, let's say you leave/get fired from your high paying job for a min wage job. Your child support payments are more than you make so you just quit and become destitute. What does the court do? You go to fucking jail. First, they send your bill into the stratosphere so the numbers seem insurmountable. So, in theory, could you get a life sentence for not having the money to pay your bills? |
|
Quoted: The definition of income is pretty much "anything" and is even wider than the IRS. One common mess that I have had to straighten out several times is Ny they do not allow depreciation as an expense, so if you make a living off owning a bunch of heavy equipment, like some bulldozers and dump trucks, the depreciation is not counted as an expense. That sends the income through the roof, the loan expense though should be deducted for child support purposes but many lawyers just let the judge remove depreciation without bringing up the loans that usually exist on most business equipment (which is not shown on a tax return). I see that all the time when self employed men come to me after someone else represented them in the beginning and they cannot figure out why they are paying so much. also it's almost impossible to go back in and fix that "You should have said that at the time" so you have to come up with some other change in circumstances to reopen the whole thing, then add the argument about the loan paymentsOff topic, but related question that I just thought of.... If someone were to take stock options as say, an alternative to a bonus, does that get figured in as income or do they just use what is reported on the W-2? |