[ARCHIVED THREAD] - $2000 Alarm System fails (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/21/2010 9:16:35 PM EDT
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http://www.startribune.com/local/east/91775814.html
Teri Lee's family says ADT misrepresented its alarm's capabilities. ADT says killer never should have been free. By KEVIN GILES, Star Tribune Last update: April 21, 2010 - 11:12 PM Weeks before Teri Lee and Timothy Hawkinson were killed in her second-floor bedroom, she spent $2,405 on an intrusion alarm system to protect herself against the murderer. But when Steven Van Keuren, a jealous and disturbed former boyfriend who had already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee, cut the phone lines outside her Washington County house in the early morning darkness of Sept. 22, 2006, nothing happened. When Van Keuren shattered a glass patio door with a crowbar, a sensor stayed silent because it had been installed too far away, alleges attorney Bill Harper of Woodbury, who represents Lee's sister, Vicki Seliger Swenson. The deaths, Harper contends, raise questions for thousands of Minnesota homeowners who rely on their intrusion alarms to protect them. ADT officials declined to discuss the case, but in court filings they criticized local police forces for failing to arrest Van Keuren before the attack. When Van Keuren crept up the stairs to Lee's bedroom, two new motion detectors didn't respond. The screeching alarm finally activated, Harper said, when Lee's two daughters opened the front door to escape –– after their mother was dead. In a legal battle in U.S. District Court, Lee's family seeks punitive damages from ADT, contending that the company salesman misrepresented the alarm system's capabilities to Lee and that it was improperly installed, with deadly results. "I think they are entirely misled as to what they're getting," Harper said. ADT won't comment on the case during "active litigation," said Ann Lindstrom, a spokeswoman at corporate headquarters in Florida. However, a March filing shows ADT is trying to implicate the Washington County Sheriff's Office and the St. Paul Park Police Department for allegedly failing to arrest Van Keuren when he violated court orders prohibiting him from contacting her. A gun and German Shepherd would have done the trick... |
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wow. Well, the "sensor" they mentioned being too far away from the patio door must have been a glass break sensor? As for the motion detectors they mentioned, those are rarely on when in HOME mode. It is nice to move about ones house while armed........ Sounds like classic lack of layered security, and poor installation. Hell, for $2405 for installation, there better be a damn glass break next to every freaking piece of glass, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. And for $2405, I'd expect there to be a cellular UNIT to relay the signals to Central Station. Sounds like they got sold snake oil, and a bad installer. And being armed would have been another layer of security. I wonder if they had firearms.......... damn. |
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A beer bottle balanced on the bedroom door and a loaded Glock 19 under the womans pillow might have kept her alive. Did they sleep through the patio door being smashed? $2400 buys you a least a good handgun, a small yippee dog, and a large bitee one. Probably a shotgun, and a sledgehammer too. |
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Quoted: These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. |
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These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. What do you sell alarms? lol |
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Quoted: Quoted: These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. Any guy breaking into a house who's done it for any length of time knows an alarm is HIS warning. A home alarm is audible to scare him off. Most of them are aware of response time. Most of the time, a bad guy has taken what he wants and/or done the damage he wishes to in the 2-3 minutes he has before police are ever dispatched to an alarm call. Alarms are more to make the owner feel good than they are to protect anything. Edit: Give me three minutes in the average home. I won't clean you out, but I'll take enough stuff to make it worth it. |
| my parents had an ADT system they paid a few thousand for, plus monthly monitoring. System malfunctioned, alarm going off in the middle of the night, keypad did not work. They never called. He called them, verified himself, and they told him how to disable it on the control board. He said get someone out to fix it. The operator then asked for his address. He canceled the service on the spot and told them to come get their shit out of his house. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. What do you sell alarms? lol Studies have been done that show MANY burglars will leave a home with a tripped alarm or barking dog & go somewhere else... Of course, that's meaningless when it's a crazy stalker ex, not a burglar with infinite possibilities of easier targets. And when the alarm is poorly installed & not coverage-tested.... |
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Quoted: The sister should sue the cops for not arresting this POS after he" already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee". Not that that will ever happen. I'd like to know who told them that he violated the orders. Depending on the jurisdiction, sometimes, the violation must be witnessed by an officer or something of the sort. Far too many times, I've had babymomma's get the injunction, and it isn't even dark before they call that he's back violating it. Sometimes it's true, sometimes not. Had one call that her ex-boyfriend was violating the injunction and at her home before he had even been released from jail. It's a silly game that some choose to play. However, if they had whatever proof is required in that jurisdiction for an arrest, they should have done so. |
I see what you did there.|
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my parents had an ADT system they paid a few thousand for, plus monthly monitoring. System malfunctioned, alarm going off in the middle of the night, keypad did not work. They never called. He called them, verified himself, and they told him how to disable it on the control board. He said get someone out to fix it. The operator then asked for his address. He canceled the service on the spot and told them to come get their shit out of his house. I have a cellular backup for mine, but the main signal goes through the internet. It is so fucking fast that it is almost annoying. My wifes grandmother accidentally set it off on a Sunday morning, and my phone was ringing before I could get my underwear on to go shut it off. |
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Was the guy white ? Seeing if the brirnks ads are true. Nothing more Burglars are usually white. Same goes for the violent stalkers. I had a similar case as this story's. She did everything, including video. We talked her into a gun and some training. She did both and was ready. Arfcom would have been proud and I thought she was mentally ready. He broke in, alarm went off, and she was ready with her gun. He came in, sweet talked her, she lowered the gun and he stabbed her to death. I had 3 arrests on the guy already for stalking, but his family had money to get him out each time. |
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Some folks just don't want to take responsibility for their own safety. Bottom line. An alarm is a good chink in the armor, but it's only one... +1 It's a great way to monitor the perimeter - but even then... have these people bothered to think about what happens if the damn thing goes off? Wait on the Po-lice to show up 10 minutes later? |
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The sister should sue the cops for not arresting this POS after he" already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee". Not that that will ever happen. Can't By SCOTUS, the police have no legal responsibility to protect the population. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Was the guy white ? Seeing if the brirnks ads are true. Nothing more Burglars are usually white. Same goes for the violent stalkers. I had a similar case as this story's. She did everything, including video. We talked her into a gun and some training. She did both and was ready. Arfcom would have been proud and I thought she was mentally ready. He broke in, alarm went off, and she was ready with her gun. He came in, sweet talked her, she lowered the gun and he stabbed her to death. I had 3 arrests on the guy already for stalking, but his family had money to get him out each time. A person is not truly armed because they own a gun, any more than they are a pianist by owning a piano. |
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These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. Any guy breaking into a house who's done it for any length of time knows an alarm is HIS warning. A home alarm is audible to scare him off. Most of them are aware of response time. Most of the time, a bad guy has taken what he wants and/or done the damage he wishes to in the 2-3 minutes he has before police are ever dispatched to an alarm call. Alarms are more to make the owner feel good than they are to protect anything. Edit: Give me three minutes in the average home. I won't clean you out, but I'll take enough stuff to make it worth it. Lookup the "Fog Bandit"... I have my alarm company checking in to one for my shop. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: These commercials piss me off so much. When seconds count, the cops are 10-15 minutes away. No one is going to run like that in the commercial. Bullshit. A lot of criminals, who are just looking for a cheap, low-effort way to make a buck off of someone, will haul ass at the first sign that they've been busted. Some people though, are of the opposite extreme... They won't give a fucking shit about the stupid alarm. As seen in this case. Any guy breaking into a house who's done it for any length of time knows an alarm is HIS warning. A home alarm is audible to scare him off. Most of them are aware of response time. Most of the time, a bad guy has taken what he wants and/or done the damage he wishes to in the 2-3 minutes he has before police are ever dispatched to an alarm call. Alarms are more to make the owner feel good than they are to protect anything. Edit: Give me three minutes in the average home. I won't clean you out, but I'll take enough stuff to make it worth it. Lookup the "Fog Bandit"... I have my alarm company checking in to one for my shop. Needs an OC/dye fogger. |
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So what your saying is.....it didnt go exactly like in the commercials right?
I talked to the wife the other day about installing some sensors in the house. As I explained to her "ive got no intentions of hooking it up to the phone line. Its there to go off so I can get up and shoot the SOB" She laughed and concoured. |
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Some folks just don't want to take responsibility for their own safety. Bottom line. An alarm is a good chink in the armor, but it's only one... +1 It's a great way to monitor the perimeter - but even then... have these people bothered to think about what happens if the damn thing goes off? Wait on the Po-lice to show up 10 minutes later? I have ADT, but I don't think of it as a bad-guy-stopper. I think of it more as a message to me saying "Hey stupid, get up!" That's why I always sleep with my Defender. |
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Toward the end of the 3rd page it does mention that the new boyfriend was armed:
Van Keuren cut Lee's phone lines with red wire cutters, smashed the patio door and crept up the stairs to Lee's bedroom at 4 a.m. Within 40 seconds, Lee and Hawkinson were shot dead. Hawkinson, sleeping beside Lee to protect her, never got off a shot from a loaded handgun he carried for self defense. |
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The sister should sue the cops for not arresting this POS after he" already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee". Not that that will ever happen. Can't By SCOTUS, the police have no legal responsibility to protect the population. huh? |
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The sister should sue the cops for not arresting this POS after he" already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee". Not that that will ever happen. Can't By SCOTUS, the police have no legal responsibility to protect the population. huh? DeShaney v.Winnebago County Dept. of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 The police have a duty to protect society at large, not any one individual. See also Schieber v. City of Philadelphia, No. 01-2312, 320 F.3d 409 (3rd Cir. 2003), which although not a SCOTUS case, is worth reviewing. Briefly, as I recall it, Scheiber's daughter was raped and murdered while two police officers stood outside her apartment and waited for backup (because the sounds of the struggle frightened them to the point where they were effectively suppressed from acting, in my opinion). The appeals court ruled that the decision not to enter her apartment was "within the realm of the officers' discretion" and that the city of Philadelphia was not liable for failing to stop her rape and murder although officers were present at the scene. Hope this helps. |
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Quoted: I just spent $2130 on a complete alarm system here at my gun shop... EVERYTHING is wireless except the power supply... and even that has a battery backup. Motion sensors, glass break sensors and door jamb sensors. If ANY of those trip the alarm, the call goes out...it CAN'T be defeated. The monitoring is done via cellular, so no phone wires to cut. I also have remote buttons that clip on your belt or hang on a chain around your neck to activate the holdup alarm. One audible and one silent. The entire system can also be activated/deactivated via key fob remotes... Those also have hold-up panic buttons on them. http://www.phonejammer.com/home.php A cell phone Jammer would block the Signal from the cellular then all they have to do is cut off the regular line. There is always a weakness. |
It's not all bad news....Stephen was WHITE! 
I ripped the alarm on my house out. They could not make it work with a power garage door, the fire sensor went whenever we cooked and they refused to not call the FD, the windows could not be opened without turning the whole thing off...Now I have an aftermarket alarm and a bedside pistol. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The sister should sue the cops for not arresting this POS after he" already violated several orders for protection that prohibited him from contacting Lee". Not that that will ever happen. Can't By SCOTUS, the police have no legal responsibility to protect the population. Incorrect, their duty is to the general population/society, not the individual. As in, your individual call for help does not require an LEO to save your life by law. They may get fired, but there is no legal recourse unless you can show intentional malice, and even then, the city won't be liable. Your life is your responsibility, get a gun. |
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I just spent $2130 on a complete alarm system here at my gun shop... EVERYTHING is wireless except the power supply... and even that has a battery backup. Motion sensors, glass break sensors and door jamb sensors. If ANY of those trip the alarm, the call goes out...it CAN'T be defeated. The monitoring is done via cellular, so no phone wires to cut. I also have remote buttons that clip on your belt or hang on a chain around your neck to activate the holdup alarm. One audible and one silent. The entire system can also be activated/deactivated via key fob remotes... Those also have hold-up panic buttons on them. http://www.phonejammer.com/home.php A cell phone Jammer would block the Signal from the cellular then all they have to do is cut off the regular line. There is always a weakness. There are cell-phone-only backups, but some do triple backup... land-line, internet, and cell. It helps if you secure the utility access on the outside of the building. Enclose it all in conduit, with locking enclosures, and regular old wire-cutters won't be sufficient. They'll either have to rip it out, saw it, climb the pole, or dig up the lines... all of which = time/noise. |
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Quoted: Toward the end of the 3rd page it does mention that the new boyfriend was armed: Van Keuren cut Lee's phone lines with red wire cutters, smashed the patio door and crept up the stairs to Lee's bedroom at 4 a.m. Within 40 seconds, Lee and Hawkinson were shot dead. Hawkinson, sleeping beside Lee to protect her, never got off a shot from a loaded handgun he carried for self defense. Sounds like the alarm WOULD have helped save her life IF it had been properly installed/tested, and had gone off when the BG entered... Because if he didn't get scared off, the alarm would have woken up new-BF, who had a gun. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just spent $2130 on a complete alarm system here at my gun shop... EVERYTHING is wireless except the power supply... and even that has a battery backup. Motion sensors, glass break sensors and door jamb sensors. If ANY of those trip the alarm, the call goes out...it CAN'T be defeated. The monitoring is done via cellular, so no phone wires to cut. I also have remote buttons that clip on your belt or hang on a chain around your neck to activate the holdup alarm. One audible and one silent. The entire system can also be activated/deactivated via key fob remotes... Those also have hold-up panic buttons on them. http://www.phonejammer.com/home.php A cell phone Jammer would block the Signal from the cellular then all they have to do is cut off the regular line. There is always a weakness. There are cell-phone-only backups, but some do triple backup... land-line, internet, and cell. It helps if you secure the utility access on the outside of the building. Enclose it all in conduit, with locking enclosures, and regular old wire-cutters won't be sufficient. They'll either have to rip it out, saw it, climb the pole, or dig up the lines... all of which = time/noise. But they can all be defeated. I am not saying to use them but you must understand their limits and that nothing is fool proof. Dragracer says his system can not be defeated which I simply pointed out that it is not true. |