Posted: Yesterday 5:09:16 PM EDT
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These products normally list a 50,000 hour run time on medium brightness setting. That's 5.7 years. The two issues I have with shake awake red dots is that it presumably adds cost to the product and also adds a theoretical point of failure. Shake awake seems like it would make more sense on something like an EOTech that uses a laser powered by a CR123A with a one month run time. But it makes less sense on a red dot that uses an LED powered by a CR2032 with a five year run time where swapping a new battery costs less than two dollars. Red dots are often marketed as budget optic choices. People don't buy sub-$200 made in China red dots because its the best performing product for their needs. So why spend extra money to add an electronic feature that doesn't really matter? Plus it theoretically adds a new point of failure. If whatever mechanism detects motion fails and no motion is ever being detected at all, then you would have to keep turning your red dot back on every ten minutes. I suppose I can see the argument for adding it to really expensive red dots that have good enough quality control to effectively eliminate the risk of that failure and where the cost difference is more trivial. But even then its only real purpose would be a buffer against battery related failure so a bad battery that would otherwise have died in a month instead lasts a bit longer. Because presumably everyone still swaps out a brand new battery once a year anyway. For all I know maybe this is actually a really cheap feature to add and only changes retail price by a few dollars. But it just seems like a marketing gimmick to me. |
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But muh Holosun technology…… Why you no hate Trijicon for not innovating? Why you buy from Union Karen’s who vote against your rights and not like give money to poor China people who never vote against your rights? Filthy American buying Capitalist.  Am I in before the Trijicon haters? |
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Originally Posted By binthere: But muh Holosun technology…… Why you no hate Trijicon for not innovating? Why you buy from Union Karen’s who vote against your rights and not like give money to poor China people who never vote against your rights? Filthy American buying Capitalist. Am I in before the Trijicon haters? Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. |
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Originally Posted By HRoark87: Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. Yeah. I do have aimpoints. Including T1’s and a T2. I only wish that EoTech could make products as reliable and bullet proof as a Comp M2. |
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I dont mind changing a battery every 5 years. But Im more worried about the emitter burning out being left on continuously. And I agree, the shake-awake would be perfect for Eotech's although they tend to kill batteries even OFF so maybe its just better to change batteries every week... |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I dont mind changing a battery every 5 years. But Im more worried about the emitter burning out being left on continuously. And I agree, the shake-awake would be perfect for Eotech's although they tend to kill batteries even OFF so maybe its just better to change batteries every week... |
"I assure you, Mr. Mowry, that I am quite serious when I ask you to oblige by walking bow-legged."
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I dont mind changing a battery every 5 years. But Im more worried about the emitter burning out being left on continuously. And I agree, the shake-awake would be perfect for Eotech's although they tend to kill batteries even OFF so maybe its just better to change batteries every week... Hmm that could make sense. But I'm not aware that any red dots ever had known issues of that happening, or if so, whether anyone tried to solve the problem by making a better emitter. |
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Originally Posted By HRoark87: Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. Honestly though, I like my Duty RDS better. I like the side buttons and most likely it's more durable against a drop as there's no rheostat switch in the side. Im a poor without night vision though. |
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I'll second this reply from your earlier tech thread Originally Posted By india13c: Because the 5 year battery claim is always on a setting no one uses as it’s basically unusable. Usable brightness settings usually only get you a year or two. Also, half the time the only way they get that 5 year battery life is specifically because of the shake awake. Go look at some of the product descriptions of some of these dots and they say exactly that. Something akin to “5 year battery life using shake awake.” Not “5 year battery life and happens to have shake awake as an added feature.” https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Not-a-fan-of-shake-awake-If-the-red-dot-already-has-a-five-year-battery-life-then-why-add-that-/18-794813/ |
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: When I bought my T2 it was $650 without a mount. It's crazy what they are asking for them now. Honestly though, I like my Duty RDS better. I like the side buttons and most likely it's more durable against a drop as there's no rheostat switch in the side. Im a poor without night vision though. Originally Posted By JBecker_72: Originally Posted By HRoark87: Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. Honestly though, I like my Duty RDS better. I like the side buttons and most likely it's more durable against a drop as there's no rheostat switch in the side. Im a poor without night vision though. At $650 I'd pull the trigger. I just can't do acog money for a red dot. My T1 is still kicking, so they make great stuff, but damn. |
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My 507K X2 goes about 4 months between batteries, being carried a lot, with brightness set a couple down from the brightest setting, using the circle and dot reticle. Yeah I appreciate the shake awake feature, otherwise I would be replacing the battery twice as often. Five years? Sure- on a very low setting, dot only, some might do that. Get out in some bright sunlight and tell me how that works. Aimpoints are the kings of the long lasting battery. We would swap them yearly just because, even at a reasonably bright setting they last. Also it is just a 2 MOA dot though…. Old day Eotech 512 and 552’s with AA’s would go only about a week and a half on a bright setting, turned on for about 12 hrs average for maybe 6 shifts. They loved to die with no warning like it was their jobs. So yeah, they certainly could have used that feature. Use your gear more in real life conditions- those manufacturer listed run times are not at very reasonable brightness levels… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By HRoark87: At $650 I'd pull the trigger. I just can't do acog money for a red dot. My T1 is still kicking, so they make great stuff, but damn. |
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Originally Posted By tac556: My 507K X2 goes about 4 months between batteries, being carried a lot, with brightness set a couple down from the brightest setting, using the circle and dot reticle. Yeah I appreciate the shake awake feature, otherwise I would be replacing the battery twice as often. Five years? Sure- on a very low setting, dot only, some might do that. Get out in some bright sunlight and tell me how that works. Aimpoints are the kings of the long lasting battery. We would swap them yearly just because, even at a reasonably bright setting they last. Also it is just a 2 MOA dot though . Old day Eotech 512 and 552's with AA's would go only about a week and a half on a bright setting, turned on for about 12 hrs average for maybe 6 shifts. They loved to die with no warning like it was their jobs. So yeah, they certainly could have used that feature. Use your gear more in real life conditions- those manufacturer listed run times are not at very reasonable brightness levels |
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Originally Posted By TheLookingGlass: My guess is that I don't think they will run for 50,000 hours on one battery. I think 50,000 hours is the lifespan of the emitter if run continuously. |
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: That's not good to hear. I just got a 407K X2 for my Shield X. do ya plan to carry it as a duty weapon? if ya set any of them at a day light use brightness level and its carried on you constantly your battery life will reflect this as the shake awake will be getting triggered keeping the dot on, if the gun lives in a safe or nightstand the shake awake will not get activated and battery life will be longer... ETA; All of mine are green dots which draw more battery BUT in AZ we have white bright sun so.... |
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Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: I'll second this reply from your earlier tech thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Not-a-fan-of-shake-awake-If-the-red-dot-already-has-a-five-year-battery-life-then-why-add-that-/18-794813/ No, that's not what they claim. Perhaps they are lying but what they all claim in listed product specs is 50,000 hours of run time at the middle setting. So if it has ten brightness setting then the run time claim is based on brightness level five. 50,000 hours is 5.7 years. And this figure has been listed by all the red dot companies since before shake awake started becoming popular. My slightly older red dots from Vortex and Primary Arms that didn't include shake awake also listed 50,000 hours of run time at medium brightness setting. |
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Originally Posted By mech-monsoon: do ya plan to carry it as a duty weapon? if ya set any of them at a day light use brightness level and its carried on you constantly your battery life will reflect this as the shake awake will be getting triggered keeping the dot on, if the gun lives in a safe or nightstand the shake awake will not get activated and battery life will be longer... |
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: That's not good to hear. I just got a 407K X2 for my Shield X. Oh I am pretty damned happy with it, as I have realistic expectations and just buy batteries in multi packs. It costs less than $1 a month basically…. After using Eotech AA types hard for years anything seems better! That plus good back up irons makes it one hell of a lot better than just irons for my aging eyeballs! My battery died the other day, I carried it without a working battery for a day just because I was in a hurry and didn’t have time to swap it before running out the door. I do keep spare batteries and a battery tray tool in my vehicle as well, so I could have swapped it if I really wanted to. My carry gun 507K X2 has been so good that I have purchased a few more, plus a bunch of 507C’s and other models as well. But those guns sit in the safe 95% of the time, so I expect the batteries in those to last a much longer time. Another reason shake awake is nice. |
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 Tac TV Season 1, E1: Daniel Defense M4 Torture Test "Larry Vickers' Daniel Defense/ T1 torture test)" at 21:00 LAV explodes the rifle and the Aimpoint stays zeroed despite the rear lens shattering |
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Originally Posted By Brian01: No, that's not what they claim. Perhaps they are lying but what they all claim in listed product specs is 50,000 hours of run time at the middle setting. So if it has ten brightness setting then the run time claim is based on brightness level five. 50,000 hours is 5.7 years. And this figure has been listed by all the red dot companies since before shake awake started becoming popular. My slightly older red dots from Vortex and Primary Arms that didn't include shake awake also listed 50,000 hours of run time at medium brightness setting. Never used a single red dot where the middle setting was worth a shit in really bright daylight… Nor do you want a middle setting if you are using a bright weapon light, so it isn’t like you would always turn it down for night use… Again- lots of real life use just equals shorter battery life. Just the way it is. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: It's my everyday carry. I'll keep an eye on it. I have one green dot on my 43x clone that is on me constantly its a Gowutar (same factory that makes Primary Arms as well as Holosun and a bunch of other OEMs that the 2016 battery lasts about 1.5 years I've been extremely impressed with that brand since I found them a few years ago, the sites share many Holosun as well as PA features but a heavier duty housing at a great price but the price is creeping up as people are finding out about them... if they had the ACCS Vulcan retical I'd have no reason to buy Holosun at all.....   if its not on me its sitting in my drivers bag sitting on the floor in a Super 18 dump truck that for all intents has no suspension LOL so shake awake is constantly active |
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Originally Posted By tac556: Never used a single red dot where the middle setting was worth a shit in really bright daylight… Nor do you want a middle setting if you are using a bright weapon light, so it isn’t like you would always turn it down for night use… Again- lots of real life use just equals shorter battery life. Just the way it is. Agreed. And I don't have any published spec figures for battery life at high settings but I would assume it would still probably be a long time. Long enough that shake awake doesn't matter if you routinely swap a new battery once a year. Then again that probably varies a lot by brand. An expensive brand like Aimpoint that invests a lot in quality control probably has more efficient circuitry than a Chinese product optimized for affordability. |
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How many years do you guys keep an RDS in service? How many run an optic past 5 years on a firearm kept "in the ready" condition? From random observation most folks don't own phones past 5 years. Granted, that's an item with a shorter technology life cycle. However, new and improved optics with additional features also show up all the time. |
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Originally Posted By Moondog: How many years do you guys keep an RDS in service? How many run an optic past 5 years on a firearm kept "in the ready" condition? From random observation most folks don't own phones past 5 years. Granted, that's an item with a shorter technology life cycle. However, new and improved optics with additional features also show up all the time. |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I dont mind changing a battery every 5 years. But Im more worried about the emitter burning out being left on continuously. And I agree, the shake-awake would be perfect for Eotech's although they tend to kill batteries even OFF so maybe its just better to change batteries every week... Valid. Trijicon just replaced a circuit board in a MRO for me that has been constant on for ten years. Hindsight, I would have left it off more times than on. |
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Originally Posted By Moondog: How many years do you guys keep an RDS in service? How many run an optic past 5 years on a firearm kept "in the ready" condition? From random observation most folks don't own phones past 5 years. Granted, that's an item with a shorter technology life cycle. However, new and improved optics with additional features also show up all the time. I'm not even sure i have a red dot that's not 5-years old Getting old sucks 
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: When I bought my T2 it was $650 without a mount. It's crazy what they are asking for them now. Honestly though, I like my Duty RDS better. I like the side buttons and most likely it's more durable against a drop as there's no rheostat switch in the side. Im a poor without night vision though. Same house would be $400k now. Inflation is real. |
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Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: I'll second this reply from your earlier tech thread https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Not-a-fan-of-shake-awake-If-the-red-dot-already-has-a-five-year-battery-life-then-why-add-that-/18-794813/ Originally Posted By HobbitHunter: I'll second this reply from your earlier tech thread Originally Posted By india13c: Because the 5 year battery claim is always on a setting no one uses as it’s basically unusable. Usable brightness settings usually only get you a year or two. Also, half the time the only way they get that 5 year battery life is specifically because of the shake awake. Go look at some of the product descriptions of some of these dots and they say exactly that. Something akin to “5 year battery life using shake awake.” Not “5 year battery life and happens to have shake awake as an added feature.” https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Not-a-fan-of-shake-awake-If-the-red-dot-already-has-a-five-year-battery-life-then-why-add-that-/18-794813/ I agree with india13c, the 5 years is using the shake awake to shut it off when its not moving. They will not shut off if carried, they wont even shut off in a case in a moving car. I assume the math they did was carried 8 hours a 5 days a week and it should last 5 years. Add in a 2 hour commute, carrying it 7 days a week and 5 hours at home before and after work and you get months of life, not years. |
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: That's not good to hear. I just got a 407K X2 for my Shield X. Originally Posted By JBecker_72: Originally Posted By tac556: My 507K X2 goes about 4 months between batteries, being carried a lot, with brightness set a couple down from the brightest setting, using the circle and dot reticle. Yeah I appreciate the shake awake feature, otherwise I would be replacing the battery twice as often. Five years? Sure- on a very low setting, dot only, some might do that. Get out in some bright sunlight and tell me how that works. Aimpoints are the kings of the long lasting battery. We would swap them yearly just because, even at a reasonably bright setting they last. Also it is just a 2 MOA dot though . Old day Eotech 512 and 552's with AA's would go only about a week and a half on a bright setting, turned on for about 12 hrs average for maybe 6 shifts. They loved to die with no warning like it was their jobs. So yeah, they certainly could have used that feature. Use your gear more in real life conditions- those manufacturer listed run times are not at very reasonable brightness levels The 407 only does dot. It will last a year or more. Anyone getting only 4 months is using the |
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Originally Posted By mech-monsoon: I have one green dot on my 43x clone that is on me constantly its a Gowutar (same factory that makes Primary Arms as well as Holosun and a bunch of other OEMs that the 2016 battery lasts about 1.5 years I've been extremely impressed with that brand since I found them a few years ago, the sites share many Holosun as well as PA features but a heavier duty housing at a great price but the price is creeping up as people are finding out about them... if they had the ACCS Vulcan retical I'd have no reason to buy Holosun at all..... https://i.imgur.com/cQbNkNj.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/hKB8KqM.jpeg if its not on me its sitting in my drivers bag sitting on the floor in a Super 18 dump truck that for all intents has no suspension LOL so shake awake is constantly active I have two of the gowutar optics and so far they have held up pretty well. They don't have a lot of rounds through them, but holding zero so far. |
World ain't what it seems, is it Gunny?
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Originally Posted By FreefallRet: I have a 15yr old T1 and it's going strong. Ive had 3 die on me. Got one left. Aimpoint replaced them with T2s when I sent them in, which was cool. Anyway, RMR-HD. |
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| The Aimpoint battery life is based on a rather dim brightness setting. On full bright they don't last long. If you live somewhere bright as hell and want a dot that you will always at least see when you first bring it up, shake awake gets you a bit more battery life on a dot set to blinding. |
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I don't think Holosun get 50,000 hours without using shake awake. I have several with the shake awake feature and it works fine. I recently picked up a G19 w/Aimpoint COA and can confirm setting 7 (50,000hr) is not bright enough for a bright sunny day outside especially against a light colored background. More like setting 9, maybe 8. I have a Holosun EPS Core incoming. Interested in seeing how well the new front mounted light sensor works for Auto brightness mode. Should be a major improvement over the top sensing models. |
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Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I dont mind changing a battery every 5 years. But Im more worried about the emitter burning out being left on continuously. And I agree, the shake-awake would be perfect for Eotech's although they tend to kill batteries even OFF so maybe its just better to change batteries every week... Well, IIRC the average emitter lifespan is 50K hours, so you want to swap out the emitter with the batteries OP?
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When I hold an AK in my hands, I get feelz I don't understand
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Originally Posted By HRoark87: Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. Originally Posted By HRoark87: Originally Posted By binthere: But muh Holosun technology…… Why you no hate Trijicon for not innovating? Why you buy from Union Karen’s who vote against your rights and not like give money to poor China people who never vote against your rights? Filthy American buying Capitalist. Am I in before the Trijicon haters? Trijicon perfected optics. It's aimpoint that people should hate. A T2 is so ridiculously overpriced it's amazing. Markets. How do they work? If it’s selling it’s not over priced. |
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My EPS carry on my EDC has gone close to 2 years at med high brightness. I carry it everywhere I go but its not duty carried. My RMR batteries seem to last a couple years. But they are on HD and range guns. As another poster said, if you dont want shake awake, there are options. To answer your original question, If the optic can actually run for 50k hours at max brightness, then NO there isnt any need for shake awake. Good? |
| That medium setting that everyone uses for their battery life rating, is unusable. If I'm going to have to turn the brightness up to use it anyway, I'll just turn it off. Shake awake let's you have it on a usuable brightness. But even on a usable setting without shake awake you should get at least a year. Change your batteries once a year, at least on your "go to". |
