Posted: 9/20/2012 2:22:31 PM EDT
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I've been thinking about getting back into photography. Partly for something to do when I'm not shooting and partly to get some nice video and pictures of me and my friends at USPSA and IDPA matches so I'd like to get something relatively compact that I can take with me on range days without adding too much bulk which has me looking at the mirror-less cameras. I want something that is relatiely easy for a new person to use so I can hand it off to someone so they can take video of me as I shoot a stage.
Are there any mirror less models that are worth the time or am I better off with the DSLR? With DSLRs I was looking at Canon and Nikon because they have the widest variety of lenses but with the mirrorless models it seems that most of them don't use the same lenses as their larger counter-parts so it almost seems like lens choice is moot which opens up the playing field a little so now I'm even more indecisive. Anyone have any pointers? Is there a model out there that is really impressive or head and shoulders above the rest? |
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I've been thinking about getting back into photography. Partly for something to do when I'm not shooting and partly to get some nice video and pictures of me and my friends at USPSA and IDPA matches so I'd like to get something relatively compact that I can take with me on range days without adding too much bulk which has me looking at the mirror-less cameras. I want something that is relatiely easy for a new person to use so I can hand it off to someone so they can take video of me as I shoot a stage. Are there any mirror less models that are worth the time or am I better off with the DSLR? With DSLRs I was looking at Canon and Nikon because they have the widest variety of lenses but with the mirrorless models it seems that most of them don't use the same lenses as their larger counter-parts so it almost seems like lens choice is moot which opens up the playing field a little so now I'm even more indecisive. Anyone have any pointers? Is there a model out there that is really impressive or head and shoulders above the rest? As far as mirrorless cameras go, the sony nex models are on top regarding image quality. But as you mentioned Sony (and other mirrorless cameras) used different lenses than DSLR's, so lens selection can be an issue. I prefer DSLR's due to the ergonomics (nikon tends to give functions their own button, canon likes to use menu's) and product support. Its up to you to decide what you value more. Personally, I like the flexibility of a DSLR and would be more inclined to pick something like this: (Body Only) http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-16-2MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B004V4IWKG over a mirrorless camera like the NEX-5N. |
| I got to play with a Nikon 1 that a friend of a friend bought. Too me it's a glorified point and shoot. Yeah you can change lenses out, the few that are available any way. You can adjust the settings like an SLR, but I found the controls very awkward, in that you had to cycle through the menus to adjust the settings rather than just turn a dial or press a button. I would just go with a traditional DSLR if that is what you are into. |
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I've been thinking about getting back into photography. Partly for something to do when I'm not shooting and partly to get some nice video and pictures of me and my friends at USPSA and IDPA matches so I'd like to get something relatively compact that I can take with me on range days without adding too much bulk which has me looking at the mirror-less cameras. I want something that is relatiely easy for a new person to use so I can hand it off to someone so they can take video of me as I shoot a stage. Are there any mirror less models that are worth the time or am I better off with the DSLR? With DSLRs I was looking at Canon and Nikon because they have the widest variety of lenses but with the mirrorless models it seems that most of them don't use the same lenses as their larger counter-parts so it almost seems like lens choice is moot which opens up the playing field a little so now I'm even more indecisive. Anyone have any pointers? Is there a model out there that is really impressive or head and shoulders above the rest? As far as mirrorless cameras go, the sony nex models are on top regarding image quality. But as you mentioned Sony (and other mirrorless cameras) used different lenses than DSLR's, so lens selection can be an issue. I prefer DSLR's due to the ergonomics (nikon tends to give functions their own button, canon likes to use menu's) and product support. Its up to you to decide what you value more. Personally, I like the flexibility of a DSLR and would be more inclined to pick something like this: (Body Only) http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-16-2MP-Digital-18-55mm-3-5-5-6/dp/B004V4IWKG over a mirrorless camera like the NEX-5N. It's funny you mentioned the NEX I was looking at those. The NEX-6 and NEX-7 actually. I think I'd probably need one or two really good lens right now. |
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I got to play with a Nikon 1 that a friend of a friend bought. Too me it's a glorified point and shoot. Yeah you can change lenses out, the few that are available any way. You can adjust the settings like an SLR, but I found the controls very awkward, in that you had to cycle through the menus to adjust the settings rather than just turn a dial or press a button. I would just go with a traditional DSLR if that is what you are into. Yes and no. Point and shoot cameras have small CCDs where most mirrorless cameras have sensors the same size of their larger DLSR brothers so you really do get significantly better quality than a point and shoot. Some of the mirrorless ones use the micro 4/3s sensors which are somewhere between point and shoot and DSLR sensor size. I've been told some mirrorless interfaces are glorified point and shoot not giving you much control but others really are just smaller SLR. |
| I'm primarily a Nikon DSLR shooter, but on a whim picked up a Sony NEX-5N. It has been a great little camera with excellent quality images, and I'm very satisfied with it. As a bonus, I picked up an adapter that lets me use my various Nikkor lenses with it as well. |
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The Sony NEX line is a pretty good option for both video and photos, only downside is that shooting video continuously for long periods would cause the camera to overheat. Not sure whether this would occur in the NEX 6 but it does happen on the NEX 7/5. But for short videos of shooting matches I think it shouldn't be a problem.
Sony's line of SLT aren't too bad, pretty feature packed for their price. And you get pretty good auto focus during video mode, something that neither Nikon or Canon does well in. Panasonic's line of Four-Thirds cameras (G5, GF5 etc.) are pretty good as well, plus they've got a much greater lens selection than Sony has for their NEX line. |
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Quoted: I've been thinking about getting back into photography. Partly for something to do when I'm not shooting and partly to get some nice video and pictures of me and my friends at USPSA and IDPA matches so I'd like to get something relatively compact that I can take with me on range days without adding too much bulk which has me looking at the mirror-less cameras. I want something that is relatiely easy for a new person to use so I can hand it off to someone so they can take video of me as I shoot a stage. Are there any mirror less models that are worth the time or am I better off with the DSLR? With DSLRs I was looking at Canon and Nikon because they have the widest variety of lenses but with the mirrorless models it seems that most of them don't use the same lenses as their larger counter-parts so it almost seems like lens choice is moot which opens up the playing field a little so now I'm even more indecisive. Anyone have any pointers? Is there a model out there that is really impressive or head and shoulders above the rest? Canon EOS M sporting 70-200mm L glass  You can use the full line-up of Canon EF and EF-S mount lenses with the EF-EOS M adapter.  Supposedly the internals are from the 650D. |
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The reviews of the Canon EOS-M lead me to believe that it's aimed more at the point and shoot crowd as far as the control scheme is which made me shy away from it.
Good note about the NEX cameras overheating. I think the longest stage is going to be about 5-6 minutes of shooting at a time. |
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A lot of info from many different m4/3 platforms' users can be found at the micro 4/3 forums. A few notes... These cameras are doing well enough that the manufacturers are increasing the amount of native m4/3 glass. Some of the lenses are being optimized to work well with video. Additionally, most of the m4/3 cameras have adapters that allow you to use just about any lens. You can use 30 year old Nikon or Canon manual focus lenses on a new Olympus or Panasonic body, for example. DSLR video and the m4/3 cameras have made a big dent in available used manual focus lenses over the last 1 - 1.5 years. If possible, use anything you are thinking about for more than just a few minutes at the store. Look for places to rent, or see if someone you know has one you can borrow. After a few weeks/ months of use you may find the ergonomics don't work well for you. Gets expensive buying/ selling/ trading gear trying to find the right equipment that works for you. If you have medium-large or large hands, or if they are oddly proportioned, you may find that the smaller cameras are frustrating to use as you may have a difficult time manipulating the controls. For me, this is a major issue, and outweighs the desire to have smaller and lighter. Not being able to manipulate the controls = an expensive paperweight until it can be sold/ traded. IMHO and YMMV |
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I got to play with a Nikon 1 that a friend of a friend bought. Too me it's a glorified point and shoot. Yeah you can change lenses out, the few that are available any way. You can adjust the settings like an SLR, but I found the controls very awkward, in that you had to cycle through the menus to adjust the settings rather than just turn a dial or press a button. I would just go with a traditional DSLR if that is what you are into. Not gonna tell you a Nikon1 is a DSLR equivalent, but if you put it in manual 
The little lever in the top right will control your shutter speed, and the little wheel with "OK" in the middle will control your aperture. |
| I hightly recommend the micro 4/3 format. There are a number of bodies from both Olympus and Panasonic for different user preferences, up to and including the fantastic Em-5. There are lot of very good lenses and both companies are continuously adding to them. Check out m43! That forum linked above is excellent. |
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I've been thinking about getting back into photography. Partly for something to do when I'm not shooting and partly to get some nice video and pictures of me and my friends at USPSA and IDPA matches so I'd like to get something relatively compact that I can take with me on range days without adding too much bulk which has me looking at the mirror-less cameras. I want something that is relatiely easy for a new person to use so I can hand it off to someone so they can take video of me as I shoot a stage. Are there any mirror less models that are worth the time or am I better off with the DSLR? With DSLRs I was looking at Canon and Nikon because they have the widest variety of lenses but with the mirrorless models it seems that most of them don't use the same lenses as their larger counter-parts so it almost seems like lens choice is moot which opens up the playing field a little so now I'm even more indecisive. Anyone have any pointers? Is there a model out there that is really impressive or head and shoulders above the rest? Canon EOS M sporting 70-200mm L glass
You can use the full line-up of Canon EF and EF-S mount lenses with the EF-EOS M adapter. http://i45.tinypic.com/15of8kk.jpg Supposedly the internals are from the 650D. IIRC, yeah, it's the internals of the T4i, and includes the touchscreen. While I'd prefer the DSLR format for general photography, I think a mirrorless with a nice sensor would be great for astrophotography. Roommate has a 8" Celestron and the T mount adapter... but a DSLR can be a bit too big to fit with the scope pointing straight up. |
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I'll throw in my vote for the Micro 4/3 format (Panasonic/Olympus).
I came from the DSLR world, well really the SLR world first. In 2006 or so I got a Nikon D40, then upgraded to a Canon t2i (mostly for video) and a 40D. My only complaint was traveling with those large cameras. Decided to try out mirrorless and picked up a clearance Panasonic DMC-GF2, took it on one trip and was hooked. I could have a camera around my neck all day and not be sore. The only complaints I had were: lack of view finder, and all touch screen controls. So when the OM-D EM-5 from Olympus came out it fit the bill, sold the 40D and all my lenses and have loved it ever since. The GF2 is great to throw in a pocket with a pancake lens (14mm f2.5 or 20mm f1.7) and use it like a point and shoot, but the OM-D is like a DSLR without the size. Lens selection: second only to Canon now (EOS-M with adapter). With more lenses coming soon, and even third party lenses becoming more available. Speed: the OM-D is capable of 9fps, most other models stack up against similar DSLR models. Cost: the OM-D seems high considering how cheap entry level DSLR's are now, but the features fit the price point IMO. Ease of use: I actually just got back from Disney World, and ended up handing the camera over to a lot of people to take photos of us. With the live view screen or viewfinder option everyone I handed it to could figure it out. Video: The OM-D has a 5 axis image stabilization which makes the videos look like a steady cam. But lacks a high speed shooting mode, something other models do have. I highly recommend the OM-D. But seriously look at the Panasonic line as well their DMC-GH2 has some nice features. I've heard good things about the Sony NEX series as well, the only downside there seems to be the lens selection. Just to clarify too, sensor sizes: (biggest to smallest) Full frame (35mm equivalent, Canon 5D, Nikon D800) Pro level DSLR Crop 1.6-1.5x factor (APS-C & ETC Canon t4i, Nikon d700) entry level to mid semi pro models Micro 4/3 2x factor Nikon 1" 2.7x (Nikon J1) Point and Shoots (some like the Sony RX100 are actually 1", most are tiny) In theory the smaller the sensor the depth of field starts to go away, same for loss of dynamic range (shadow detail/Highlight detail), low light performance, and even color depth. I've noticed very little of those losses with the OM-D, a little more with the GF2. But when I was shopping around I really noticed it in test shots, and my in store test shots on the Nikon 1 series. Use this site too http://snapsort.com/compare it's just spec comparison but it might help with a tie breaker. Like someone said see if you can't borrow/rent one or multiple to try out in the conditions you'd use it, also take a memory card to the store and take some test shots to take home. |
| I played with a Sony NEX-C3 at target the other day. It was small but it wasn't all that easy to use. Trying to adjust the shutter or aperture was a bit of a nightmare. I think it'd be easier on the models with the touch screen. I help a Nikon too I can't remember the model and I liked the way that felt a whole lot more. I can see how advantageous it'd be to have the more comfortable grip if you were going to be doing any serious amount of shooting so now I'm a bit torn. |
| My wife and I have been using a nikon 1 for about a year. She uses it as a point and shoot, but I've used it a bit on the manual settings. We got it as a step up from the PNS as we weren't ready to get in the dslr game. We have since gotten a d5100 and it is obviously easier to make manual adjustments as well as all the other advantages and disadvantages. It generally isn't very hard to get very nice pictures with the Nikon 1. It would be nice if they could make a fast lens for it as getting some action shots of our dogs would probably be easier, but my wife really loves it and I've enjoyed it as well. We take it out regulary as the camera your willing to carry more is the one that will get the shots. |
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My wife and I have been using a nikon 1 for about a year. She uses it as a point and shoot, but I've used it a bit on the manual settings. We got it as a step up from the PNS as we weren't ready to get in the dslr game. We have since gotten a d5100 and it is obviously easier to make manual adjustments as well as all the other advantages and disadvantages. It generally isn't very hard to get very nice pictures with the Nikon 1. It would be nice if they could make a fast lens for it as getting some action shots of our dogs would probably be easier, but my wife really loves it and I've enjoyed it as well. We take it out regulary as the camera your willing to carry more is the one that will get the shots. There's 2 new Nikon1 lenses coming soon and noise about some Tamrons for the N1. I like mine for the small size, I can't take pics if I don't have the camera with me. |
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Quoted: I really want a view finder, electronic or not. I was going between the Sony NEX-7 and the Olympus OMD but then I saw the announcement of the Sony NEX6 which seems to have all of the features I like from them both and it's a good 200-300 cheaper than either. I have a 5N which is about $599 at best buy brick and mortar stores now, and probably available at Amazon for cheaper. Great low light and available light performance, especially with video, in a very lightweight package and easy to use. A little more bulky than most point-n-shoots, but significantly smaller than other DSLRs/cameras with APS-C sensors. |
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I really want a view finder, electronic or not. I was going between the Sony NEX-7 and the Olympus OMD but then I saw the announcement of the Sony NEX6 which seems to have all of the features I like from them both and it's a good 200-300 cheaper than either. I looked at the price point of those cameras and it seems like the only advantage over a dslr in that range is the camera size/weight. For $900 you can get a cannon or nikon dslr and spare lens or two depending on how you shop. Your options can go up more if you consider that there is a large pool of used equipment for the dslr cameras. I've seen entry level nikons from a year or two back that came with lenses I didn't have that could be worth buying and selling the body. I have played with the nex line at best buy and it did seem to have an ergonomic edge over the nikon 1 when it came to the manual controls. |
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I really want a view finder, electronic or not. I was going between the Sony NEX-7 and the Olympus OMD but then I saw the announcement of the Sony NEX6 which seems to have all of the features I like from them both and it's a good 200-300 cheaper than either. I have a 5N which is about $599 at best buy brick and mortar stores now, and probably available at Amazon for cheaper. Great low light and available light performance, especially with video, in a very lightweight package and easy to use. A little more bulky than most point-n-shoots, but significantly smaller than other DSLRs/cameras with APS-C sensors. I'm not looking at the NEX-6 which apparently isn't coming out until November. It looks to have everything I was looking for from the NEX7 and a few more features for less money. |