Posted: 2/23/2012 6:32:46 AM EDT
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IMO, one of the keys to make the electric car "catch on" in America in the short term is to attract commuters by offering tax incentives to businesses for the installation of charging equipment at the business. Park-N-Charge (I'd call it) at work would have the effect of DOUBLING the range of an electric car. In a single stroke, the electric car would be an attractive alternative for SUBURBAN commuters. Most suburbanites like me are beyond the round trip range of the current technology being offered.
I think we'd see the emergence of a new market for converting cheap electric cars or for making "home-made" electric cars. Cheap is the other key to making the electric car fly in the short term because it won't replace the real car in the garage, just supplement it in the day-to-day commuting role. Cheap, personal, electric-powered cars solely for commuting to and from work and short trips to get beer etc.. Saves wear and tear on the real car. Reduction of demand for gasoline would accompany the electric car taking off. This idea might even save the coveted suburban lifestyle; might lead to th resurgence of home prices in "bedroom" towns (no jobs in bedroom towns––just houses and walmarts.) I live in a bedroom town and saw the value of our house drop from ~$230,000 to ~$120,000. That value will NEVER return until and unless PERSONAL transportation costs are lowered in the long term. IMHO, Suburban-ism is about to collapse with disasterous results. If I were running the GoP, this idea would be plank in its political platform before the sunset today. Comments, additions and criticisms are eagerly anticipated. |
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Tesla Motors’ Devastating Design Problem
Tesla Motors' lineup of all-electric vehicles — its existing Roadster, almost certainly its impending Model S, and possibly its future Model X — apparently suffer from a severe limitation that can largely destroy the value of the vehicle. If the battery is ever totally discharged, the owner is left with what Tesla describes as a "brick": a completely immobile vehicle that cannot be started or even pushed down the street. The only known remedy is for the owner to pay Tesla approximately $40,000 to replace the entire battery. Unlike practically every other modern car problem, neither Tesla's warranty nor typical car insurance policies provide any protection from this major financial loss. |
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You mean "Catch on fire?" (sorry, could not resist).
I agree though: MOST car trips/commutes are very very short. Electric cars would work very well for this. Before someone calls me a hippy/environmentalist (I am neither), I simply believe it is stupid for Americans to spend a single penny in oil profits to OPEC. Hugo Chavez? Iran? WHY buy ANYTHING from people who hate us? Oil is a commodity and even if most of it comes from U.S./Canadian/Mexican sources, we are still benefitting OPEC by buying it. When it comes to energy, the BEST energy to buy is energy that is 100% made in the USA. Right now, that ain't oil. Screw OPEC. Buy anything EXCEPT oil/petroleum. |
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Cost and technology mainly....As Keith mentioned, when you have an EV that gets 200-300 miles range and only take 5-10mins to charge safely, (swipe at the Volt there,) then you'll have a viable option. If the Volt could go for 300 miles on a safe 5 min charge for 40K, GM literately couldn't make enough of them quick enough. In fact I'll go so far that GM would have to halt production on all gas cars and start making Volts to keep up with demand.
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Another problem will be that fact that this is America. We have a long love affair of horsepower and speed. Yes indeed. This love also perpetuates the bias against the newer turbo diesels - the BMW 3 & 5 series TDIs are actually very fast cars, but Americans still associate "diesel" only with tractors and trucks, not fast cars. |
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Energy density / lb of curb weight. Period, full stop. The tech is not ready. It may never be. This, but I think it will eventually get there. I've heard of a couple breakthroughs in progress which have the potential to increase the energy density of a lithium ion battery by a factor of x10. A leap like that would bring electric cars to the mainstream if it can be commercialized. I believe it was this article I am thinking of: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/16/researchers-increase-charging-capacity-speed-of-lithium-ion-bat/ I get that making something work in a lab and work in real life are two entirely different things though. |
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There are already tax incentives. They make very little difference. There already are a few "home-brew" electric car makers out there.
Here are the problems: Charging takes between 5 and 10 hours. Fast charging is hard on the batteries. Further travel distances (40-80 miles +) require a hybrid anyway Winter travel, range greatly decreased. As the battery's age, their capacity is lowered. Expensive to build, and people besides the diehards, are not willing to spend $20K+ for a car that goes 40 miles. Gas is cheap...comparatively. More pollution is made building the batteries than a normal car will produce it's entire life (allegedly) Our power grid could never handle the extra load of a great deal of electric cars. Thoughts? 
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The battery tech just isn't there yet. The current powertrain tech, which allows for 40-50 mile trips with an overnight recharge, might be marketable as a $15,000 "second car", but as a primary driver it just doesn't cut it for most folks. IMHO, diesel-electric or, even better, turbine-electic makes much more sense.
DanO |
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You mean "Catch on fire?" (sorry, could not resist). I agree though: MOST car trips/commutes are very very short. Electric cars would work very well for this. Before someone calls me a hippy/environmentalist (I am neither), I simply believe it is stupid for Americans to spend a single penny in oil profits to OPEC. Hugo Chavez? Iran? WHY buy ANYTHING from people who hate us? Oil is a commodity and even if most of it comes from U.S./Canadian/Mexican sources, we are still benefitting OPEC by buying it. When it comes to energy, the BEST energy to buy is energy that is 100% made in the USA. Right now, that ain't oil. Screw OPEC. Buy anything EXCEPT oil/petroleum. Except that MOST people do not drive to ONE place. If you drive to the mall, you also drive to the grocery and maybe have to run by somewhere else. None of those places have chargin stations, on average. Then you have the circumstance that there was an aricle about a while back of people hogging the charging stations where they exist. Energy density, plus infrastructure. |
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I won't get an electric until I can drive cross country with it. I'd buy one if I could drive to and from work everyday with enough reserve for the occasional stop at the store. I drive 80 miles a day. oh and if it was a cheap car that was priced the same as the gas counter part. Not a compact car for $30000. |
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You mean "Catch on fire?" (sorry, could not resist). I agree though: MOST car trips/commutes are very very short. Electric cars would work very well for this. Before someone calls me a hippy/environmentalist (I am neither), I simply believe it is stupid for Americans to spend a single penny in oil profits to OPEC. Hugo Chavez? Iran? WHY buy ANYTHING from people who hate us? Oil is a commodity and even if most of it comes from U.S./Canadian/Mexican sources, we are still benefitting OPEC by buying it. When it comes to energy, the BEST energy to buy is energy that is 100% made in the USA. Right now, that ain't oil. Screw OPEC. Buy anything EXCEPT oil/petroleum. Except that MOST people do not drive to ONE place. If you drive to the mall, you also drive to the grocery and maybe have to run by somewhere else. None of those places have chargin stations, on average. Then you have the circumstance that there was an aricle about a while back of people hogging the charging stations where they exist. Energy density, plus infrastructure. For commuting, they go to one place & back. BUT, your point is otherwise valid and it is part of why they won't catch on. Plus, most folks can't afford to buy.insure/maintain separate vehicles for commuting/everything else. Thus, a family's one or two vehicles MUST be able to "do it all." Gas accomplishes that. Electric does not (yet). |
It's really looked at as being an unneeded toy. Not that we do not buy unneeded toys but THAT unneeded toy is useless as a KOOL toy. Could see some fleet use. We already have electric toys for some fleet use. Might want to find out overall costs from the fleet use people. They might know much more about ownership of these toys than the Environment Hype Media/ Commie Takeover People. And....that's one hell-of-a expensive battery to replace. How do they work in -40f? Do they have 4wheel drive. Sometimes when I "go into town"(3mi.) I have to put it in 4Wdrive just to get out of my driveway I guess I could borrow the kids snowmachine....now that's a KOOL TOY.
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My TDI will do at least 550 miles at 80 MPH with two bikes on top and AC blowing.
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300 mile range and 5 minute charges. 300 REAL miles. With the AC on full blast, driving into a head wind, average speed of 80 mph, 3 passengers + luggage. TDIs are awesome; the REAL question is why haven't the newer generation of TDIs caught on yet? My dream car would be a BMW M5 TDI. |
| There is absolutely no upside to an electric car. NONE. They are expensive, they have very little range and could never be used for a trip, they need electricity which is produced by coal or oil, maybe nuclear, but in the big picture they have no effect on carbon emissions. I can't think of one positive for owning an electric car. Furthermore, you will be taxed one way or another because you are not paying the road tax at the pump. At some point you will have an expense to recycle or dispose of batteries. There is a reason why they are not selling. THEY DON'T GET ER DONE. |
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Cost and range like another poster said. Batteries still cost $500-$700/KWH which is prohibitively expensive, since each KWH is worth 4 miles of driving. The cost needs reduced by likely 80% before they're viable in any significant way. Battery density naturally doubles about every 15 years, so I would imagine that within 30 years, it'd be economically viable to have electric cars which can drive ~1000 miles between charges, and be reasonably priced. |
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I'm one of the few that would make the leap for what it's worth, so here are my two reasons: 1) Tech isn't there yet, battery technology/weight just can't provide enough range beyond short jaunts. 2) Once "1" is there, it must be affordable to the masses. I would dig having one... |
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Currently: they are ugly, stupid, unreliable, not big enough for my needs, poor performers off road, and just all around lame.
Call me when I can have an electric Suburban 2500 4x4 with a 16,000 pound tow capacity, packing 400 horses and 450 lb-ft, with a 15 minute or less charge time, a 750 mile range, and weighs about 7500 pounds.. If we can put a man on the moon, we should be able to build a 'real' electric truck. |
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