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Posted: 1/1/2003 11:45:15 PM EST
Okay, serious topic. Do you think that welfare is too available? What I mean is do you think that the wrong people are able to get it and keep it? I ask this because I had an aquaintance who was on welfare which paid for her house, food, and schooling while she was in school (through a bachelors). Once she graduated she decided that she no longer wanted to be a teacher so she went to work for a gas station. No reparation for the money spent on her was given. So what do you think? Let me know your opinion.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 11:47:09 PM EST
I think there is way too little accountability. There is too much room for abuse. And, if we pay some crack whore to sit on her butt and have 10 kids from 50 different guys, what do you expect. Of course she's going to do it... we're paying people to do nothing.... the system needs serious reform.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 11:52:35 PM EST
I would agree with you on the lack of accountability. What do you think that the negative conotations would be if we got rid of welfare all together. I think that the intentions are good, but without a proper set of checks and balances we are wasting taxpayer money. I do not have all the facts so take this as it is, just an opinion.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 11:53:28 PM EST
I feel that if a person is unable to provide then they should be helped out. If the person is working and they qualify, they should be helped out. If a person isnt working but is actively looking for a job and they can prove it, they should be helped out. If a person is just lazy and doesnt have a job, they should recieve no help. I'm not proud of this and I'm not sure why I'm going to mention it but here it goes. I work my butt off and try to get ahead. My wife and I recently qualified for WIC (women, infants, and children). This helps pay for formula, juice, cereal, etc. It really helps out our budget and we able to make ends meet. They way I see it, the government already takes close to 1/3 of my paycheck in taxes. This is just the goverment giving some of my money back because they took much in the first place.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 12:06:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By schapman43: I feel that if a person is unable to provide then they should be helped out. If the person is working and they qualify, they should be helped out. If a person isnt working but is actively looking for a job and they can prove it, they should be helped out. If a person is just lazy and doesnt have a job, they should recieve no help. I'm not proud of this and I'm not sure why I'm going to mention it but here it goes. I work my butt off and try to get ahead. My wife and I recently qualified for WIC (women, infants, and children). This helps pay for formula, juice, cereal, etc. It really helps out our budget and we able to make ends meet. They way I see it, the government already takes close to 1/3 of my paycheck in taxes. This is just the goverment giving some of my money back because they took much in the first place.
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See this I do not have a problem with. While in the military, I was unable to qualify for WIC or any other governmental financial aid. This is while my aquaintance was going to school and not working. I was married at the time, and between the two of us we didn't bring in 30k a year before taxes. I think that we could extend unemployment for those who were actively looking for a job, and programs such as WIC are also great with a system of checks and balances. I was at 7-11 one day, and there was a woman who bought some things with food stamps, then pulls out a wad of cash for beer and cigarettes. If she had cash for that, she didn't need the food stamps! This brings me to another point, disability. Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplimental disability when they can afford a brand new lincoln navigator?
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 12:15:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By venom_inc: Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplimental disability when they can afford a brand new lincoln navigator?
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Abuse my friend, abuse...
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 1:51:05 AM EST
So no other views?
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 2:39:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By venom_inc: Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplemental disability when they can afford a brand new Lincoln navigator?
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Disability is a bigger scam than anyone realizes, but it is a big No-No to talk about, because of course, the people on it are "disabled" We have two people where I work that are on permanent Social Security "disability", and I don't know how they got there, but they both could easily work 40 hours, instead of the "20" they put in now. Here's how, go to a doctor, file for SSI, get turned down, hire a lawyer, (they do it pro-bono)appeal, and your in. Kind of like Florida where almost every man, woman, and child has a handicapped parking permit.[sarcasim] A couple girls at our store, unmarried w/kids, worked 20 hours because our Republican Governor required it of them to get their "goodies" They pay no Federal withholding, are supplied a larger apartment house than I have a home at less per mounth that I pay in property taxes, one girl had a one bedroom for each family member(when she had a second child, the moved her from a two bedroom to a 3 bedroom, full basement)and at the end of the year, she gets back 2500.00 in the "Earned Income Tax Break" thing.[V] And trust me, they did not spend the money on necessities. IMHO, if you don't think there is a problem with all the "socialism" in this country, you ain't paying attention. Rancid Lance
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:27:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rancid:
Originally Posted By venom_inc: Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplemental disability when they can afford a brand new Lincoln navigator?
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Disability is a bigger scam than anyone realizes, but it is a big No-No to talk about, because of course, the people on it are "disabled" We have two people where I work that are on permanent Social Security "disability", and I don't know how they got there, but they both could easily work 40 hours, instead of the "20" they put in now. Here's how, go to a doctor, file for SSI, get turned down, hire a lawyer, (they do it pro-bono)appeal, and your in. Kind of like Florida where almost every man, woman, and child has a handicapped parking permit.[sarcasim] A couple girls at our store, unmarried w/kids, worked 20 hours because our Republican Governor required it of them to get their "goodies" They pay no Federal withholding, are supplied a larger apartment house than I have a home at less per mounth that I pay in property taxes, one girl had a one bedroom for each family member(when she had a second child, the moved her from a two bedroom to a 3 bedroom, full basement)and at the end of the year, she gets back 2500.00 in the "Earned Income Tax Break" thing.[V] And trust me, they did not spend the money on necessities. IMHO, if you don't think there is a problem with all the "socialism" in this country, you ain't paying attention. Rancid Lance
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It is a pitty is it not?
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:38:23 AM EST
Interesting fact: Eight-Year Percent Change in Welfare Caseloads Welfare Recipients: Percent Change, 1993-2000 -59 Stateline.org [url]www.stateline.org/issue_facts.do?issueId=230383[/url] A good site if you want the facts about welfare.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:39:19 AM EST
I have personal experience with this- a family member of mine is disabled (really) and unable to work. The crappy system sucks!! The attorney we got to try and get SSI sucked!! My sister and I split over $700 in medicine bills 'cause the "system" won't pay for it. $50 in food stamps a month is ridiculous!! This person's income is so low they don't have to file federal taxes. Hasn't filed in over 10 years! And you gotta help "under the table"; if the gubment finds out anyone helps IN ANY WAY, this person looses all aid. My parents divorced many years ago, and now this person receives a % of the others Social Security retirement. This puts this person about $22 over the amount necessary to get some other help. Christ this topic really pisses me off when I hear about all the lazy jerk off's getting a ton of aid while I go through this; "illegally" helping a family member when the gubment won't. And I know some body is gonna say, "BS, there are programs." Well, after 15 years of going through this shit, I'm here to tell ya, sometimes there ain't! Backstop, STFU!
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:43:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By wetidlerjr: Interesting fact: Eight-Year Percent Change in Welfare Caseloads Welfare Recipients: Percent Change, 1993-2000 -59 Stateline.org [url]www.stateline.org/issue_facts.do?issueId=230383[/url] I am glad to see that we may actually be doing something about this drain on our economy. A good site if you want the facts about welfare.
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Link Posted: 1/2/2003 3:59:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Rancid:
Originally Posted By venom_inc: Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplemental disability when they can afford a brand new Lincoln navigator?
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Disability is a bigger scam than anyone realizes, but it is a big No-No to talk about, because of course, the people on it are "disabled" We have two people where I work that are on permanent Social Security "disability", and I don't know how they got there, but they both could easily work 40 hours, instead of the "20" they put in now. Here's how, go to a doctor, file for SSI, get turned down, hire a lawyer, (they do it pro-bono)appeal, and your in. Kind of like Florida where almost every man, woman, and child has a handicapped parking permit.[sarcasim] A couple girls at our store, unmarried w/kids, worked 20 hours because our Republican Governor required it of them to get their "goodies" They pay no Federal withholding, are supplied a larger apartment house than I have a home at less per mounth that I pay in property taxes, one girl had a one bedroom for each family member(when she had a second child, the moved her from a two bedroom to a 3 bedroom, full basement)and at the end of the year, she gets back 2500.00 in the "Earned Income Tax Break" thing.[V] And trust me, they did not spend the money on necessities. IMHO, if you don't think there is a problem with all the "socialism" in this country, you ain't paying attention. Rancid Lance
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The constant abuse makes me very angry. I wish they wouldn't waste [b]my[/b] money!
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:39:59 AM EST
I just think there is way too much abuse and workin the system going on as someone above said if you are genuinely hurt and need some help one time or short term to get througha crisis you are up a creek but people who know the system and ride it for years know how to rob the state blind. Welfare was designed as a short term safety net to keep people from losing everything when they lose thier job or cant work for whatever reason it was not meant as a source of income for someone who has no intention of ever making thier life better. I think in some cases the state has made it easier to stay on welfare than to get off. Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day,teach a man to fish you feed him for life.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:47:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By offctr: Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day,teach a man to fish you feed him for life.
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A wonderful sentiment...
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 5:02:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By offctr: Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day,teach a man to fish you feed him for life.
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NO. Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer for a day. Seriously, accountability is the key. However, there cannot be accountability without at least two more layers of beaurocracy in the already bloated system, thus further increasing the cost of the program. This increases the burden on the taxpayers that fund the programs, and reduces the benefits realized by the recipients. Ain't Socialism grand?
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 7:14:59 AM EST
A P.S. to my above statement:
Originally Posted By Rancid: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By venom_inc: Can anyone explain how someone can qualify for supplemental disability when they can afford a brand new Lincoln navigator? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disability is a bigger scam than anyone realizes, but it is a big No-No to talk about, because of course, the people on it are "disabled" We have two people where I work that are on permanent Social Security "disability", and I don't know how they got there, but they both could easily work 40 hours, instead of the "20" they put in now. Here's how, go to a doctor, file for SSI, get turned down, hire a lawyer, (they do it pro-bono)appeal, and your in. Kind of like Florida where almost every man, woman, and child has a handicapped parking permit.[sarcasim] A couple girls at our store, unmarried w/kids, worked 20 hours because our Republican Governor required it of them to get their "goodies" They pay no Federal withholding, are supplied a larger apartment house than I have a home at less per mounth that I pay in property taxes, one girl had a one bedroom for each family member(when she had a second child, the moved her from a two bedroom to a 3 bedroom, full basement)and at the end of the year, she gets back 2500.00 in the "Earned Income Tax Break" thing. And trust me, they did not spend the money on necessities. IMHO, if you don't think there is a problem with all the "socialism" in this country, you ain't paying attention. Rancid Lance
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Originally Posted By Backstop: I have personal experience with this- a family member of mine is disabled (really) and unable to work. The crappy system sucks!! The attorney we got to try and get SSI sucked!! My sister and I split over $700 in medicine bills 'cause the "system" won't pay for it. $50 in food stamps a month is ridiculous!! This person's income is so low they don't have to file federal taxes. Hasn't filed in over 10 years! And you gotta help "under the table"; if the gubment finds out anyone helps IN ANY WAY, this person looses all aid. My parents divorced many years ago, and now this person receives a % of the others Social Security retirement. This puts this person about $22 over the amount necessary to get some other help. Christ this topic really pisses me off when I hear about all the lazy jerk off's getting a ton of aid while I go through this; "illegally" helping a family member when the gubment won't. And I know some body is gonna say, "BS, there are programs." Well, after 15 years of going through this shit, I'm here to tell ya, sometimes there ain't! Backstop, STFU!
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Yea, we have one guy at work I failed to mention, he's 61, has had numorous back operations, about a year ago, he had a stroke at work, (small, he recovered), he looks like walking death, appears to be 90+ years old, has dizzy spells, fainting spells, he works full time and some overtime. He applied for Social Security Disability, and was turned down......... Rancid Lance
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 8:01:12 AM EST
Build a man a fire and keep him warm for the rest of the night. Set a man on fire and keep him warm for the rest of his worthless life.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:05:35 AM EST
I'm surprised that nobody has made any comments regarding that fact that welfare is unconstitutional. Besides, government is the most inefficient means to get anything done, so why would you want them to manage such a program? If you look at the federal budget numbers on the pie chart printed in your 1040 tax booklet, it illustrates the scope of the problem. Fully 3/4 of the federal budget is spent on "entitlement" programs. I think a lot of people could live better if they had their tax burdens reduced by 75%...
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 9:13:58 AM EST
Welfare is wealth redistribution, therefore I am against it. Americans are the most philanthropical people on earth. If our tax burden was lifted we would give even more. Private charities and religious groups are much better suited to help the needy than the government is. The notion that the governments role is to help when one can not pay the bills sickens me.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 10:21:22 AM EST
markl32 said: The notion that the governments role is to help when one can not pay the bills sickens me.
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You Sir, are a good man. Rancid Lance
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 2:12:13 PM EST
All I know is that when my wife was pregnant and I was the only one working for 6.50 an hour I asked if I could get welfare, or at least some program to help with the insurance bills and they told me no because I made too much. Anywho, I worked 2 jobs and did minor repair jobs on houses on the weekends for about 6 months, and racked up a credit card bill till I finally got a decent wage at work. But now I'm off on my own and working on paying off the cards. What really gets me about it, is I just wanted a little help with the costs at the time till I got in a good paying job. Shit I would've even paid it back, like how I'm doing now with my credit cards.
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 2:49:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/2/2003 3:12:46 PM EST by markl32]
Philosophical context: Sparsky, If I understand you correctly, your need (temporary or otherwise) entitles you to my money? Real world context: Your better off working to meet your needs as you did. You exemplify America at its finest. [i]Edit for spelling...[/i]
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 6:08:14 PM EST
markl32, I would think you'd be much happier having your $$ go to a US citizen in temporary need rather than a non-US citizen in temporary need on the other side of the planet. The cynic in me, motivated by Jack D, has spoken with the intent to produce a smile.
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