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AR15.COM
3/18/2008 5:13:32 PM EDT
Anyone else not able to make heads or tails of this crap?

I have a 5 question quiz due next week and I can't make heads or tails of this shit.
3/18/2008 5:16:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Sure, it was easy.

About 20 years ago, that is.  

IIRC, they allow you to determine an unknown angle based on the sine/cosine/tangent etc. ratios.
3/18/2008 5:19:55 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Sure, it was easy.

About 20 years ago, that is.  

IIRC, they allow you to determine an unknown angle based on the sine/cosine/tangent etc. ratios.


Idk the first question is "prove (1-2cosx-3cos^2x)/(sin^2x)=(1-3cosx)/(1-cosx)"

If I am no mistaken the two denominators equal eachother (sin^2x=1-cosx).
3/18/2008 5:22:49 PM EDT
[#3]
when I saw the subject of this thread I threw up in my mouth a little.
3/18/2008 5:23:47 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
when I saw the subject of this thread I threw up in my mouth a little.


I am hoping to find someone that throws up in their pants a little over this stuff so maybe I can get some help.
3/18/2008 5:28:16 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
when I saw the subject of this thread I threw up in my mouth a little.


I am hoping to find someone that throws up in their pants a little over this stuff so maybe I can get some help.



Took a 22-question test last Friday (this week is spring break) over the same stuff. I'm no genius at it, but passing PreCalc with a high B. Might be able to help. IM me the full question.
3/18/2008 5:30:08 PM EDT
[#6]
If it makes you feel any better, you will NEVER use that stuff in real life.  All relevant trig can be taught in about 3 weeks.  They just need filler material to make a semester out of it.
3/18/2008 5:40:01 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sure, it was easy.

About 20 years ago, that is.  

IIRC, they allow you to determine an unknown angle based on the sine/cosine/tangent etc. ratios.


Idk the first question is "prove (1-2cosx-3cos^2x)/(sin^2x)=(1-3cosx)/(1-cosx)"

If I am no mistaken the two denominators equal eachother (sin^2x=1-cosx).


Now simplify the numerator on the left side, 1-2cosx-3cos^2x, until you get 1-3cosx.
3/18/2008 5:41:41 PM EDT
[#8]
took me three semesters before I finally caught on. that was 1990.......
3/18/2008 5:46:16 PM EDT
[#9]
I have had trouble with trig identities for 4 years now and I'm finally able to deal with them. The only ones you really have to remember are:

tan(x) = sin(x)/cos(x)

sec(x) = 1/cos(x), csc(x) = 1/sin(x), cot(x) = 1/tan(x)

(cos^2)(x) + (sin^2)(x) = 1

From those, you can get pretty much every other one. It can take a little while; it took me about thirty minutes to figure out how to put (tan^4)(x) in terms of sec(x) to solve an integral, though most of that was due to continually making simple mistakes.

Edit: for helping with your problem, lemme see if I can guide you through it. First, though, remember that sin^2(x) is NOT 1-cos(x), but 1-cos^2(x).

Edit 2: Here's a very good start to that problem: for the left side of the equation, factor the numerator, then put the denominator in terms of cos(x) and factor it. You remember algebra, right? Lemme know if you need help with that, because once you do that it's trivially simple.
3/18/2008 5:51:26 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm ashamed. I aced calculus in college(2 years ago). But I don't remember how to do this.
3/18/2008 5:54:03 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Edit: for helping with your problem, lemme see if I can guide you through it. First, though, remember that sin^2(x) is NOT 1-cos(x), but 1-cos^2(x).


Argh, missed that.

I missed almost all the lectures on this stuff due to family medical issues so I have not a clue what the fuck I am doing here.  I have no idea how to apply the trig identities.
3/18/2008 6:06:23 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
Edit 2: Here's a very good start to that problem: for the left side of the equation, factor the numerator, then put the denominator in terms of cos(x) and factor it. You remember algebra, right? Lemme know if you need help with that, because once you do that it's trivially simple.


How do I go about factoring the top?

For the bottom do you mean change sin^2x = (1-cos(2x)/2)  ?

I have a feeling ur shaking ur head at that...

3/18/2008 6:19:02 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Edit 2: Here's a very good start to that problem: for the left side of the equation, factor the numerator, then put the denominator in terms of cos(x) and factor it. You remember algebra, right? Lemme know if you need help with that, because once you do that it's trivially simple.


How do I go about factoring the top?

For the bottom do you mean change sin^2x = (1-cos(2x)/2)  ?

I have a feeling ur shaking ur head at that...



Sin^2(x) = (1-cos^2(x)), remember.

To factor, try substituting if you have trouble conceptualizing. Let u = cos(x), so instead of 1 - 2 cos(x) - 3 cos^2(x), it's 1 - 2u - 3u^2, and the denominator is 1 - u^2. Factor those, then replace u with cos(x) again.
3/18/2008 6:22:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Wait till you get to calc 2 thats where the fun stuff starts!!!
3/18/2008 6:23:26 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
If it makes you feel any better, you will NEVER use that stuff in real life.  All relevant trig can be taught in about 3 weeks.  They just need filler material to make a semester out of it.



You will need trig identities in Integral Calculus, there are a lot of times where a trigonometric substitution can make integration much easier.

But as for more practical stuff like construction, land nav, it doesn't take long.
3/18/2008 6:25:12 PM EDT
[#16]
My wife says she can do em.... no problem. But she's a HS math teacher, and we are all but mere mortals.

ETA: she's working on it.
3/18/2008 6:28:25 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
To factor, try substituting if you have trouble conceptualizing. Let u = cos(x), so instead of 1 - 2 cos(x) - 3 cos^2(x), it's 1 - 2u - 3u^2, and the denominator is 1 - u^2. Factor those, then replace u with cos(x) again.


when I factor 1 - 2u - 3u^2 I get (u + 1) (u + (1/3))?
3/18/2008 6:31:57 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
To factor, try substituting if you have trouble conceptualizing. Let u = cos(x), so instead of 1 - 2 cos(x) - 3 cos^2(x), it's 1 - 2u - 3u^2, and the denominator is 1 - u^2. Factor those, then replace u with cos(x) again.


when I factor 1 - 2u - 3u^2 I get (u + 1) (u + (1/3))?


First term is right, but try the second one again. When you multiply it out with the second term you get u^2 + 4/3 u + 1/3. I'd find it easier to do the terms in the factors in the same order they are in the original equation, as in (1 + u) instead of (u + 1). Might help you out a little.

Edit: if you want I could just give you a step-by-step, but I figure it'd help you more to solve through yourself.
3/18/2008 6:44:23 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
To factor, try substituting if you have trouble conceptualizing. Let u = cos(x), so instead of 1 - 2 cos(x) - 3 cos^2(x), it's 1 - 2u - 3u^2, and the denominator is 1 - u^2. Factor those, then replace u with cos(x) again.


when I factor 1 - 2u - 3u^2 I get (u + 1) (u + (1/3))?


First term is right, but try the second one again. When you multiply it out with the second term you get u^2 + 4/3 u + 1/3. I'd find it easier to do the terms in the factors in the same order they are in the original equation, as in (1 + u) instead of (u + 1). Might help you out a little.

Edit: if you want I could just give you a step-by-step, but I figure it'd help you more to solve through yourself.


A step by step would probably help me more in this instance.  I think I am sort of missing the overall concept here.
3/18/2008 6:51:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Hope this helps, I know nothing of this stuff.



different way to do it.

3/18/2008 6:53:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Alright.

So, we take your original equation:

[(1 - 2 cos(x) - 3 cos^2(x))/sin^2(x)] = [(1 - 3 cos(x))/(1 - cos(x)]

Convert the sin^2(x) to (1-cos^2(x)) by the trig identity, and factor the left side of the equation. (1-cos^2(x)) factors to (1 - cos(x))*(1 + cos(x)), and the numerator factors to (1 + cos(x))*(1-3 cos(x)). This yields:

[(1 + cos(x))*(1-3 cos(x))/(1-cos(x))*(1 + cos(x))] = [(1 - 3 cos(x))/(1 - cos(x)]

You can cancel out the (1+cos(x)) because it exists in both the numerator and the denominator. So you get:

[(1-3 cos(x))/(1-cos(x))] = [(1 - 3 cos(x))/(1 - cos(x)]

And there you have it.
3/18/2008 6:55:31 PM EDT
[#22]
This is way over my head.






Backs away slowly......................
3/18/2008 6:56:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Oscar has a hairy old ass.

Sine = Opposite over Hypotenuse
Cosine= Adjacent over Hypotenuse
Tangent= Opposite over Adjacent
3/18/2008 7:07:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Thats a ton dupe and MagKnightX.  Yea that makes way more sense now.
3/18/2008 7:08:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Some Old Hippie Caught Another Hippie Tripping On Acid

and tag
3/18/2008 7:12:10 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
Wait till you get to calc 2 thats where the fun stuff starts!!!


Especially the 2nd (or third....) time through.