Posted: 7/26/2004 7:24:37 PM EDT
| The purpose of the Second Amendment is to ensure that the people are able to militarily resist their government when it becomes necessary. In addition to all firearms, regardless of caliber or bullet construction, what weapons should also be available to purchase privately? (Poll Coming) |
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The only thing i would have controls on would be (1) violent felons shouldn't have a right to bear arms. fuck em. (2) storage of explosives, i.e. grenades, mortars, etc in your apartment. just not safe, they need to be stored somewhere else. if you live in the country and can only blow yourself up, fine (3) civies shouldnt own nuclear weapons. other than those 3, wide open. |
No flame, but as many here have pointed out before, if a felon who has done his time is not trusted to handle arms, then he should not have been let out of prison in the first place. There is nothing to stop him/her from filling some glass bottles with gasoline and a piece of cotton cloth: cheap, effective and no NICS check. Apart from a raging fire, grenades and mortars should be safe. If there is a fire, you wouldn't stay long anyhow.  I intentionally left out WMD and agree on the nuclear weapons. They don't discriminate adequately between friend/foe. |
i think that you shud be able to be heavyley armed then your states national guard eg LAV25's AT4's MP5/10SD's Glock 18C's Carl Gustave 85mm recoilles rifles OICW's MK19's M202 "Flame" RPG-7V's AH-1Super Cobras AT-4 Stager ATGM's UH-1's and MG3's but no heavy stuff like MBT's WMD's and AH64 Apache helos  
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Yep. Don't release if you can't trust them, don't release if they haven't repaid their debt, don't release if you can't restore their Rights |
So what you're saying is that you'd rather shoot an unarmed felon instead of an armed one? Dude, if they're a violent felon then I don't see them following ANY law that you'd care to pass, they'll be armed either way, might as well not make an issue out of it and let em' have their firearms back. That way if they truly are "rehibilitated" then can protect themselves and their family/loved ones and if they're not then when you cap em' they can't say you shot an unarmed man. As for a gernade or mortar round cooking off in a fire, I can't see where it'd be any worse then the 3lbs of 3fg black powder that I've got statched for my flintlock. 
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I'm not big on Stingers in civilian hands because there really is no place to shoot them at anything BUT aircraft. Who's got drones? If you got drones, then you can have Stingers. All ground based weapons are fine. I think class 3 should be a licence, not a repeat procedure. |
Big Brother has plenty of aircraft.  When I was still living in Canada, I attempted to legally obtain a handgun. You would almost not believe the hoops the local Chief of Police (you may remember that they have some fancy name for the LEO who approves transfers, something like 'firearms officer') expected from me before allowing such a transfer. It involved joining a handgun club, the closest one being at least 1 1/2 hrs away, for a period of at least one year and obtaining a letter from the president of the club stating that I was a member in good standing, had spent X number of hours using Y caliber blah blah blah. He also described handguns as 'two pound paper weights', although he still carried one. Once you start any type of licensing procedure, it only leads to more restrictions. Title II select-fire arms are funtionally identical to semi-autos with the exception of a 'happy switch'. |
My Dad was that guy. |
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I do not think that any of the obove would be useful in untrained hands, if fact it would be down-right counter-productive. I have had enough RPGs fly past my head, and have seen too many civilians killed by their own brother's RPG round to know that it is a bad idea for ordinary civilians to have weapons like these. Rockets + untrained people = unnecessary civilian casualties. On the other hand, if the government offered quality training and background checks that had to be completed before you are able to aquire such weapons, then I would be all for it. I also think that former military personell should be able to own whatever weapon they want, as long as they have the proper training with weapon X (I don't want a medic covering me with a mortar ect ect) Also, I think that storing these kinds of weapons would present a BIG problem. Afterall, I know what terrorists or would do to get their hands on flashbangs, I mean, who wouldn't rather clear a room full of disoriented people versus the opposite? Don't even get me started with grenades and bank robbers. I guess properly trained people could have access to local armories in a CHTF scenario. I really am torn on this issue. I guess you just have to weight the pluses and negatives. But either way, I doubt this will ever happen. Chris |
People have posted before how difficult it is to learn to use an RPG properly. But why have the gov't train people? I took a handgun course recently at the Sigarms Academy (it's a very short drive) and they had ex-military/ex-LEO do the training. We could do something similar for RPG's, demolitions, etc.
Hey, we're still working on folding-stocks and flash-hiders.  |
I vote for nothing listed in your poll. |
Thats not true at all. However, the items listed in your poll do not qualify as self defense items. |
The Second Ammendment ays nothing about "SELF DEFENSE" It say "Right to keep and bear ARMS" My definition of ARMS would be: Weapons of war.. |
And some of you need to loosen up your tinfoil and stop having fantasies about fighting the big bad government. If it ever comes down to a true civil war there would be plenty of materiel available for those who needed it. In the meantime, proposing that everyone should have a rocket launcher is nothing more than a public safety hazard. |
Do they have any problem in Switzerland? I haven't looked lately. |
Actually, I did make an attempt to list more 'defensive'/less lethal items first, then short range, then long range weapons. If I would have spent more time, I could have divided it into purely 'defensive' weapons that would require one to be 'attacked'. A flash-bang device with a trip wire or land mind set up around a perimeter would be characterized in the 'self defense' category rather than the 'offensive' category. The point is moot, because nothing in the Second Amendment requires that arms be purely defensive in nature. |
| Ex-felons shouldn't be allowed to own/possess firearms. The idea that if you can't trust them then they shouldn't be released is fine in principal, but makes no sense as a practicality. Because, NO you CAN'T trust them! Many (most) end up being repeat offenders. At the same time, we can't keep them locked up forever either. Many (probably most) felonies do not merit a life jail sentance and it wouldn't be practical anyway even if they did (which they don't). I'm certainly not willing to pay and pay and pay to keep someone locked up forever because he did something like flee from the police during a traffic stop (felony) or for many of the other felonious violations which one may be convicted of. |
The purpose of the second amendment is to give the citizenry the ability to limit the government's power. Stingers in the hands of citizenry would be an effective tool in this regard. Like anything else, if such an item was misused, the misuser should be held accountable. All ground based weapons can be fired into the air with varying degrees of effectiveness. |
Does Switzerland even allow their people to have rocket launchers? Probably not. Sure, they allow the people to have FA weaponry, but its also my understanding that that facet of Swiss life is overplayed by American gunnies who try to hold up the country as some sort of firearms Mecca; there is no CCW, for instance, and the access to FA is more limited than US gunnies want to admit. So, I think, it is meaningless for you to cite the Swiss as any sort of proof that US citizens should have an AT4 or a few pounds of C4 under their bed. |
Any sort of land mine is an anti-personnel, anti-materiel weapon and is only marginally "defensive" in a combat environment. If you want a perimeter alarm, they sell 12 gauge trip wire set ups that can fill that need. You can also buy a military perimeter alarm system surplus. Anything more is too much. |
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FWIW, I think it already is legal to own all that stuff... IF you can get a CLEO signoff since most of it would be classified as a destructive device (though you're probably going to need a really compelling reason to convince your sheriff you need an RPG and can handle it responsibly before he'll even think of signing off). And IF you have an approved explosives storage magazine. And IF you can either find a manufacturer/dealer to buy it from (which is highly unlikely since most of them are contractually precluded from selling to anyone buy the military), or IF you can register it as a DD and build it yourself without turning yourself into a fine red mist. And IF you can afford it (and you thought transferable MG's are expensive???) Of course, I may be wrong, but I think all that stuff (other than WMD/NBC) would simply be regulated as DD's. |
That is also ,as you pointed out, history . And some of what you mention was nothing more than sanctioned piracy in wartime.Not exactly what you would encourage ina civilized country in peacetime, I hope. |
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tcsd1236 More proof that you are divorced from reality. Here are two facts for you. The president has said we are at war and could be attacked here at home. I want the same weapons that the bad guys have. Look up the figures for victims of gun control JUST IN ILLINIOS. Is that death toll close to the "horrible loss of american lives in Iraq"? I think that clasifies as a "war" situation between the people and the "rulers". Of course you will not agree and everyone will once agin see your flexible morality in support of the "rulers". |
The second amendment is not only about SELF defense. Most military defensive plans for the US involve our military forces withdrawing to a natural barrier and setting up defensive lines from there. That leaves the local population to fend for themselves against invading military forces. While invasion is highly unlikely, in the end, the civilians are still fending for themselves. |
The owning of any firearms for civil defense is history. You are simply ignorant of the realities of a war on US soil because you have not seen it in your lifetime. It will occur. It is just a question of when. |
You seem to have a really low opinion of yourself and your fellow militia members. The volunteers who would actually spend the money for heavy weaponry would neither waste them or endanger others with them any more than ammonium nitrate fertilizer and diesel fuel in the hands of farmers causes daily truck bombings in major US cities. Get real. War happens. We happen to live where the exception to the rule is currently occurring. Planerench out. |
I hope that you are wrong. Look at what modern warfare has done to every developed nation that has engaged in it; it has been devastating. And you can bet that the rest of the world will not be as quick with loans to rebuild the US as we have with our efforts to rebuild the rest of the world. I do not care to see the United States torn apart by a few wingnuts who want to try to take us back to some idealized version of 18th century government in a 21st century world.All they would be doing is weakening this country to the point that we would be unable to resist the scavengers from the rest of the world coming in and picking over our national carcass. |