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Link Posted: 10/9/2018 3:49:42 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gpdave:
I moved into a house last year, the natural gas furnace is 25 years old, the AC is 13 years old.  The first HVAC contractor to look at the furnace said the heat exchanger was cracked and needed to be replaced immediately. Second guy said that the furnace looked ok (some hairline cracks on heat exchanger, but a steady, blue flame), but that the AC was running low on R22. We decided to try to buy some CO detectors and try to make it through a winter and summer, which we have done. But now, the question is, should we replace everything, or wait until something breaks. I'm tempted to replace the AC since (if it's already low on R22) - the costs to refill are going to be significant.
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If it breaks in a cold spell it may take a few days to get service. You have an alternative heat source?
Link Posted: 10/9/2018 10:38:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2018 11:34:40 AM EST by gpdave]
No, I don't have an alternate heat source. I'm definitely replacing the heater. The question is: should I do the AC at the same time? The AC is 13 years old and uses R22. A contractor mentioned that we were low on refrigerant, but didn't mention a leak anywhere....the house was cool all summer.

ETA:

Ok, I decided to not change the AC. However, now, all my furnace contractors are saying different things with regards to the chimney. The first two who came said nothing about relining the chimney. The third said that code required that the chimney be relined. One of the previous contractors said "oh yeah, I forgot about that". The fourth contractor said nothing about it, then when I asked him, he said "no, it doesn't need to be relined because there is a fan to force the exhaust up the chimney". All claim to be licensed, bonded, and insured. Apparently this is the difference between a 3.5k job and a 7k job. How do I figure out what to do?
Link Posted: 11/15/2018 9:19:32 AM EST
Just gave a contractor the go ahed to install a new 3-ton variable speed Bryant Evolution furnace and 20 SEER heat pump. My existing system is junk. I hope it all works and is worth the $.
Link Posted: 11/15/2018 11:59:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gpdave:
No, I don't have an alternate heat source. I'm definitely replacing the heater. The question is: should I do the AC at the same time? The AC is 13 years old and uses R22. A contractor mentioned that we were low on refrigerant, but didn't mention a leak anywhere....the house was cool all summer.

ETA:

Ok, I decided to not change the AC. However, now, all my furnace contractors are saying different things with regards to the chimney. The first two who came said nothing about relining the chimney. The third said that code required that the chimney be relined. One of the previous contractors said "oh yeah, I forgot about that". The fourth contractor said nothing about it, then when I asked him, he said "no, it doesn't need to be relined because there is a fan to force the exhaust up the chimney". All claim to be licensed, bonded, and insured. Apparently this is the difference between a 3.5k job and a 7k job. How do I figure out what to do?
View Quote
More efficient means lower flue temp, and condensation which eats chimneys
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 9:02:59 AM EST
I'm in the process of building in a rural area, breaking ground next spring.

No natural gas, both propane and electric readily available.  BTU price of each is about the same as the other.

The main level will be 1,760 ft^2.  The loft and the walk out conditioned spaces about equal that.  It'll be built into a hill so the main level will be ground level in the back and the lower level ground level in the front.

I plan on double wall construction and shoot for R-49 in the ceiling, R-30 in the walls exposed to outside air and build in a quality air barrier envelope for the house.

A ground loop heat pump cost is only slightly more than a conventional system after tax credits.  The one HVAC guy I spoke with didn't recommend using a pond for heat sink even though it'd be cheaper install because of the risk of the pond becoming lower in drought or possible risk leaking.  There is a perfect place to put in a pond for this purpose.

The house will have quite a few windows facing south for the view.  far fewer on the No. and East sides.  4 windows on the west side.

It will have an efficient wood burning stove in the great room on the main level as back up heat.

What should I be asking potential HVAC guys?

What should I consider?

I know I don't know.... I just don't know what it is I don't know.....

ancillary questions:

are heat pump hot water heaters a good way to go [it'll be located in the utility area of the lower level, the unfinished part].

If I go with a ground loop, can the septic laterals use the same trenches as the heating system?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 9:39:15 AM EST
I did not see this mentioned in the thread.  Check your utility company rebate program.

I went through a replacement program to change out my 15 year old R22 system that was having an increasing leak rate.  The utility company would pay roughly $800k if you were going from a SEER 10 or lower unit to 16 or $1000 to a 17.  Also rebates for a WiFi thermostat making them basically free.  The added rebate almost offset the 17 SEER difference that gave me two stage operation.

The operational costs were reduced from $250/mo to $150/mo by the new 3 ton Trane system.  Monitoring the operation, 90% of AC use is on stage one.

Quite happy with the installation and operation of the unit.  Better temperature uniformity, far better humidity consistency, and better response to heat loads.
Link Posted: 11/16/2018 10:07:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rleonard:
I did not see this mentioned in the thread.  Check your utility company rebate program.

I went through a replacement program to change out my 15 year old R22 system that was having an increasing leak rate.  The utility company would pay roughly $800k if you were going from a SEER 10 or lower unit to 16 or $1000 to a 17.  Also rebates for a WiFi thermostat making them basically free.  The added rebate almost offset the 17 SEER difference that gave me two stage operation.

The operational costs were reduced from $250/mo to $150/mo by the new 3 ton Trane system.  Monitoring the operation, 90% of AC use is on stage one.

Quite happy with the installation and operation of the unit.  Better temperature uniformity, far better humidity consistency, and better response to heat loads.
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Yes, currently both the local electrical co-op is giving a credit on top of the Fed credit which starts to be reduced after 2019.  I'm going to use both, that is how the cost is almost as low as a conventional system.

What is a two stage system?  How does it work?  Should I consider one?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/19/2018 3:47:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2018 4:01:36 AM EST by Thump_rrr]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By memsu:
Good info.

My friend's Mom just had her HVAC unit replaced. 2400 sq ft house and the old unit was a 5 Ton unit. Contractor comes out and says I'm gonna put a 5 ton unit in there just like the old one.

When my friend told me that I thought a 5 ton unit was a little on the big side for that size house. My house in AL was 1875 sq ft and it had a 3.5 ton unit. Kept temperature just fine except on extremely hot days, but I was ok with that since it's better to be slightly undersized on the AC.

My friend asked the HVAC guy about doing a load calculation and he said that wouldn't be needed and if he did that the duct work would have to be re-sized blah blah blah. Anyway he installs 5 ton unit and my friend said the unit doesn't have that long of a cycle time. So, he's probably gonna have issues down the road. The condensate drain was installed wrong (water doesn't run up hill). His return was also sized too small. A 25"X25" filter is not big enough for a 5 ton unit. I told him to add another filter the same size on the other side of the return duct to get enough filter area. That would also cut down on the noise of the unit when it's running.
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Your above statement is either completely wrong or incomplete.
Pressure drop across the filter is the determining factor.

A 25x25” duct gives a velocity of 491 ft/min.
Return air duct velocity of 492 ft/min is perfectly acceptable.
The question now is what thickness of media and how many pleats which will determine the media velocity.

As you can see in the link below a 24”x24”x2” filter is perfectly acceptable for 1,960 cfm or 492 ft/min.

You can reduce pressure drop even more by using 4” or 5” deep filters.
http://www.na.kccustomerportal.com/Documents/Upload/Application/2811/Learning%20Center/Article/An%20Inside%20Look%20at%20ASHRAE%2052.2.pdf
Link Posted: 11/19/2018 5:54:20 AM EST
You should always do a load calculation.

Most boilers are 3x oversized multiplying the baseboard by 600 btu is not a good way to size a boiler.

The 1ton per 500sq feet is a guestimate and not accurate for AC equipment.

Today's equipment will die fast if short cycled constantly
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:49:34 PM EST
New Bryant furnace and heat pump installed.
The Bryant Connex thermostat is a communicating t-stat, which I didn't fully appreciate at decision time. It works, and presumably provides some additional features that help reduce energy use, but I still wish I could have kept my ecobee3 thermostat. The Bryant advertises remote temperature sensors, but they're WIRED, not wireless like the ecobee's. The occupancy sensor/system on the Bryant is garbage. I had to turn it off. It kept thinking we were "away" even when people were in the room with the t-stat.
Question:
When the outdoor air-source heat pump kicks off it makes 4 (maybe 5) loud clicks. It seems to do this every time is cycles off. It's very audible in the house and can also be heard outside next to the unit. Is this normal/typical or outdoor air source heat pumps? It's Bryant's 20 SEER model.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 9:05:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2019 9:08:54 PM EST by Toblerone]
I recently got an estimate on new replacement furnace and heat pump for my house. I remarked how high the estimates were when they came by email. I'm in Northern Virginia.

The sales person wrote me that Carrier has had three price increases totaling 24% over the last 15 months. Can't vouch for the accuracy, but if that's the case, I wonder what's going on.

Anyway, I will be looking at Bryant and American Standard systems as options and maybe going with an air conditioner instead of a heat pump and giving up on a dual fuel system. I think they quoted me variable rather than two stage (which is plenty for me), but whatever. I think when I got a Carrier AC and heat pump 12 years ago, it was around $7K for both installed. Now the quotes I'm getting are north of $16K.  They want around $600+ just for the smart thermostat (wireless, which I don't want anyway).
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 9:24:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2019 9:25:55 PM EST by jasonm4]
Solid info Op, good post.

With that said I just put in a 96%80k/3 ton for my lil 2100sf pad for lil over $3k(everything). Previous unit was a reliable Ruud Rheem 80+(25yr old+).

Eta. It was an Amana.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:20:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 9:06:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:
We have a few big factors that are driving high costs...

1) Metal tariffs
2) Huge shortage of skilled tradesmen (supply)
3) Economy is producing a lot of work (demand)

It's a good time to be a business owner.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By Toblerone:
I recently got an estimate on new replacement furnace and heat pump for my house. I remarked how high the estimates were when they came by email. I'm in Northern Virginia.

The sales person wrote me that Carrier has had three price increases totaling 24% over the last 15 months. Can't vouch for the accuracy, but if that's the case, I wonder what's going on.

Anyway, I will be looking at Bryant and American Standard systems as options and maybe going with an air conditioner instead of a heat pump and giving up on a dual fuel system. I think they quoted me variable rather than two stage (which is plenty for me), but whatever. I think when I got a Carrier AC and heat pump 12 years ago, it was around $7K for both installed. Now the quotes I'm getting are north of $16K.  They want around $600+ just for the smart thermostat (wireless, which I don't want anyway).
We have a few big factors that are driving high costs...

1) Metal tariffs
2) Huge shortage of skilled tradesmen (supply)
3) Economy is producing a lot of work (demand)

It's a good time to be a business owner.
So you are saying I should just put in some window AC units and replace my heat pump at a later date?  The heat pump compressor has a locked rotor, it went out last July and I managed to get by without it.  I have a dual fuel setup with a gas furnace and used that for heat.

If I could replace the compress for $1,200 total would it be worth it in a 15 year old system or would I still be better off spending $4,000 to $6,000 to upgrade the system?
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:18:12 PM EST
@ ZW17

I'm building a house in a few months and don't have natural gas available.  I do have cheap electric [~9.7 kwh] and propane can be delivered.

Planning on R-19 in the walls and R-49 in the attic.  Zip system for air infiltration and closed cell spray on the foundation and 1st floor to roof bands plus around windows and receptacles.

Building in No. East MO [zone 4 mixed]

Would I be better to do

[A] air exchange heat exchange heat pump dual fuel propane

or

[B] geothermo heat pump?

I can get almost $10k in tax credits and power company rebates which brings the cost of the geothermo down to close to the same amount as a conventional furnace.

Is there a better option[s] I should consider?

Thanks for your input
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 3:44:54 PM EST
Just saw this thread. Good topic.

I have a question. Just had a new heat pump installed last week and the electrical control wires were spliced between the house and condenser. Is this acceptable?

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 4:11:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2019 4:13:55 PM EST by NeverBlue]
I just had our R-22 replaced w/R-427A this afternoon. It took 5lbs. and he added some leak stop for 5 bills. The unit is a 2002 vintage Trane. With any luck it will get me a couple more years before I need to replace it. Find a small Co that isn’t only interested in selling you an entire system w/a big fit warranty.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 4:16:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By aod886:
Just saw this thread. Good topic.

I have a question. Just had a new heat pump installed last week and the electrical control wires were spliced between the house and condenser. Is this acceptable?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/249712/20190502_163759-1008x756_jpg-931980.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/249712/20190502_163807_jpg-931981.JPG
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That tape wouldn’t last through the summer in TX.
Link Posted: 5/2/2019 8:04:35 PM EST
Great thread as im considering replacing my 13 year old Bryant system with a Trane or American standard system. My evap coil is rusting pretty heavily and my elec costs keep going up / ac seems to run longer than ever before.. so im feeling like its time.

@coldair If you lurk here still, know of any good companies on the east coast around Melbourne?
Link Posted: 5/3/2019 4:53:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2019 4:55:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/3/2019 11:16:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Hands down geo.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By Deuskid:
@ ZW17

I'm building a house in a few months and don't have natural gas available.  I do have cheap electric [~9.7 kwh] and propane can be delivered.

Planning on R-19 in the walls and R-49 in the attic.  Zip system for air infiltration and closed cell spray on the foundation and 1st floor to roof bands plus around windows and receptacles.

Building in No. East MO [zone 4 mixed]

Would I be better to do

[A] air exchange heat exchange heat pump dual fuel propane

or

[B] geothermo heat pump?

I can get almost $10k in tax credits and power company rebates which brings the cost of the geothermo down to close to the same amount as a conventional furnace.

Is there a better option[s] I should consider?

Thanks for your input
Hands down geo.
Thanks
Link Posted: 5/3/2019 5:27:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2019 6:38:22 PM EST by NeverBlue]
Originally Posted By ZW17:

...You got taken by the ol’ “gas and go” scam.
View Quote
No, I needed the gas.
I wasn’t in the mood to fork out 12K+ to replace both systems. He told me the leak stop was hit or mis and there was no guarantee that it would help. We’ll see how it runs after this cool front blows through.
Link Posted: 5/3/2019 6:26:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/4/2019 12:43:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2019 12:44:29 AM EST by Toblerone]
My house is 25 years old.

None of the HVAC bids talk about replacing the linesets, which are copper. My understanding is the newer refrigerant is under higher pressure, although the "Puron" system I have (installed in 2006) seems to do just fine with it. Should I care with 25 year old "plumbing"? Should I insist on new linesets being installed with a new heatpump install just because of the age of the currently installed copper tubing?
Link Posted: 5/4/2019 4:58:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Toblerone:
My house is 25 years old.

None of the HVAC bids talk about replacing the linesets, which are copper. My understanding is the newer refrigerant is under higher pressure, although the "Puron" system I have (installed in 2006) seems to do just fine with it. Should I care with 25 year old "plumbing"? Should I insist on new linesets being installed with a new heatpump install just because of the age of the currently installed copper tubing?
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I would.
Link Posted: 5/4/2019 6:33:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/6/2019 8:24:57 PM EST
Looks like i'm in the market for a new unit. Any idea of wtf caused this?

I noticed my unit not working went outside and check breaker and it wasn't like this. Left for a couple hours then noticed the breaker like this. WTF?

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/6/2019 9:52:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:57:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NeverBlue:

That tape wouldn’t last through the summer in TX.
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You'd think the guys would at least have a roll of this on the truck.
Link Posted: 5/11/2019 3:54:29 PM EST
Just had an estimate done. Did the analysis and came out to a 3T system. What's throwing me off is the total for the whole system install (Straight AC/Heating).

3T Daikin AC/Heating system. 12Yr parts and labor. No set line or ducts, everything else is included for $16K. They mentioned that an American Standard would be a similar price. I am still shopping around but that quote seems a bit off.
Link Posted: 5/11/2019 5:48:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Nosmik:
Just had an estimate done. Did the analysis and came out to a 3T system. What's throwing me off is the total for the whole system install (Straight AC/Heating).

3T Daikin AC/Heating system. 12Yr parts and labor. No set line or ducts, everything else is included for $16K. They mentioned that an American Standard would be a similar price. I am still shopping around but that quote seems a bit off.
View Quote
I would do a new 3 ton 20 seer American standard variable speed heat pump with all bells and whistles for 12k
Link Posted: 5/11/2019 6:10:41 PM EST
Thanks,

I am going to contact two more companies that sell/repair American Standard systems.
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 3:52:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/12/2019 5:50:53 AM EST by fettesbrotde]
Just got a quote for a new American Standard system to replace my 13 year old Bryant system. This look like a good deal or should I get more quotes? I got a couple quotes from Trane dealers but they were nearly double. The vendor in question is extremely reputable and has tons of great reviews

4 Ton (~2,200 sqft)
Platinum 18 Air Conditioner
Forefront Platinum TAM9 Air Handler
Acculink Platinum 850 Thermostat
15k heat strips
Installation / removal of old system
~$9,100 total
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 4:16:57 AM EST
@zw17 wish you were close to SC,  my mom passed on may 6,  her AC is leaking,  i had a guy come out said it was 250 dollars a pound for r22 and it needed 13 pounds for a 4 ton unit,  its a 2004,  she has doublewide.  They told me it would be 2K to fill it and not sure how long it would last or 7500 for a new inside and outside unit. 4 ton RUUD brand. This would be the replacement

i dont mind paying someone for a quality product but there are so many ripoffs out there its not funny. I will get a few more estimates and see how it goes
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 5:37:14 AM EST
r22 s=has come down from the 900 plus a drum most people around here sell it for 100 to 125 per pound but I would not recharge a 15 year old leaking unit unless it looked in great shape. new heat pump package units of good quality are selling for around 7400 to 8100 around here
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 6:55:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 7:08:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2019 5:23:58 PM EST
I have another question I forgot to mention,  the current outside unit is right under a bedroom window, its looking like I am going to replace the entire thing,  how much trouble would it be to have the new unit moved to another side of the house,  it would be closer to the inside unit just away from the bedroom.  I'm sure they would run new lines vs using the old since its a different type Freon and oil?

thanks for the tips and other info,  very helpful.

i do not have MS paint but its a good 40 feet from the inside unit now,  where I want it moved to is outside the kitchen area that would make it around 25 or so feet from inside unit.  Maybe not that far.
Link Posted: 5/15/2019 6:15:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/15/2019 11:08:15 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Fairly easy to move locations during a change out. Move the refrigeration piping and the electrical, done.

Now would be the time to have it done.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By my2Dogs:
I have another question I forgot to mention,  the current outside unit is right under a bedroom window, its looking like I am going to replace the entire thing,  how much trouble would it be to have the new unit moved to another side of the house,  it would be closer to the inside unit just away from the bedroom.  I'm sure they would run new lines vs using the old since its a different type Freon and oil?

thanks for the tips and other info,  very helpful.

i do not have MS paint but its a good 40 feet from the inside unit now,  where I want it moved to is outside the kitchen area that would make it around 25 or so feet from inside unit.  Maybe not that far.
Fairly easy to move locations during a change out. Move the refrigeration piping and the electrical, done.

Now would be the time to have it done.
Thank you
Link Posted: 5/20/2019 5:36:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/20/2019 5:40:22 PM EST by 2tired2run]
Neighbor has a 3 ton trane unit with a seized cooling fan, the compressor is fine and tech recommend replacing the whole unit with a 410 unit (includes compressor and new evaporator coil).

sounds like a sell job but I don't know?

2 questions
- should she go ahead and replace the fan.  He quoted $500 which seems high because the last one I replaced was under $300.

- what's the go to brand these days for a full replacement? Trane, American Std, lennox etc.

@ZW17
Link Posted: 5/20/2019 6:13:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/20/2019 6:14:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/20/2019 7:14:39 PM EST by 2tired2run]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:
My wholesale cost on a fan motor and capacitor is about $50 non OEM.

That would be a $300-$500 sale to the customer depending on travel, time, etc...

With R22 prices about to skyrocket I wouldn’t invest a dime into a unit that has R22 refrigerant and is older than 12-15yrs old.

Now may be the time to change out the system.
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Thanks for the info.

Eta:  any brand better than the other or ones to stay away from?

@ZW17
Link Posted: 5/20/2019 8:13:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/21/2019 10:02:29 PM EST
How is the load calculation run for a zone setup? I've been doing a lot of reading about HVAC systems today and this has piqued my curiosity.

My house is 4,100sqft, 3-level. (2) HVAC systems -- a 3-ton Goodman w/natural gas furnace for the main level (1,866sqft) and finished walk-out basement (1,086sqft). The upstairs system is a 1.5-ton Goodman unit, heat pump, for 1,157sqft.

There's a zone system in place (Honeywell controller, dampers, etc) so that main AC system can service both the basement and main level.

Would the unit servicing that the main level and basement be based just off the larger load required for the main level, or is it a worst-case-scenario calculation that assumes the homeowner might occasionally want to cool both zones at once?
Link Posted: 11/16/2019 8:23:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Leak stop is garbage and used by hacks.

I’d find a company that knows how to leak check a system and braze joints or replace leaking parts.

You got taken by the ol’ “gas and go” scam.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By NeverBlue:
I just had our R-22 replaced w/R-427A this afternoon. It took 5lbs. and he added some leak stop for 5 bills. The unit is a 2002 vintage Trane. With any luck it will get me a couple more years before I need to replace it. Find a small Co that isn’t only interested in selling you an entire system w/a big fit warranty.
Leak stop is garbage and used by hacks.

I’d find a company that knows how to leak check a system and braze joints or replace leaking parts.

You got taken by the ol’ “gas and go” scam.
I disagree. The first few years that stop leak was available the formulas weren't very good and they could clog the system. The new stop leaks are much better and two are oem approved. Leaks in a coil, which is what NeverBlue most likely had, can not be brazed since Trane used an aluminum rim over copper tube design. $500 for a stop leak and recharge is not a bad price and he understands that it is a temporary measure, not a permanent solution. It sounds like the guy did you a favor offering you that low cost solution until you have the funds to upgrade the system.

I'm an HVAC contractor in AZ and we rarely inject stop leak because replacement is always the best solution for the consumer. But not all consumers have the funds available and it is always best to offer solutions that fit the consumers' budget. The few times that we have used stop leak, it has performed as advertised with no adverse consequences; but it is only a temporary fix.
Link Posted: 11/16/2019 8:28:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Did anyone use an electronic leak detector to find the source of the leak? I’d guess not.

How do you know if it’s something as simple as tightening a schrader core?

The hack way is to sell the refrigerant knowing full well you’ll be back to sell more. The leak seal is the super hack way.

Find a company that knows to to leak check and repair systems, not sell gas and leak stop shit.

You may get another 5-10yrs out of that system.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By NeverBlue:

No, I needed the gas.
I wasn’t in the mood to fork out 12K+ to replace both systems. He told me the leak stop was hit or mis and there was no garentee that it would help. We’ll see how it runs after this cool front blows through.
Did anyone use an electronic leak detector to find the source of the leak? I’d guess not.

How do you know if it’s something as simple as tightening a schrader core?

The hack way is to sell the refrigerant knowing full well you’ll be back to sell more. The leak seal is the super hack way.

Find a company that knows to to leak check and repair systems, not sell gas and leak stop shit.

You may get another 5-10yrs out of that system.
You are jumping to conclusions that the tech didn't do a leak check.
Based upon it was a 2000 model, the evaporators coil usually leaks on those and that is not repairable. Since NeverBlue knew in advance that it was temporary and wasn't 100% guaranteed to work, he made an informed decision.
10 more years out of a 19 year old Trane? yeah, right, you're dreaming.....
Their designed life span was only 14 to 16 years, he already passed that point.....
Link Posted: 11/16/2019 8:28:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BCinAZ:
I disagree. The first few years that stop leak was available the formulas weren't very good and they could clog the system. The new stop leaks are much better and two are oem approved. Leaks in a coil, which is what NeverBlue most likely had, can not be brazed since Trane used an aluminum rim over copper tube design. $500 for a stop leak and recharge is not a bad price and he understands that it is a temporary measure, not a permanent solution. It sounds like the guy did you a favor offering you that low cost solution until you have the funds to upgrade the system.

I'm an HVAC contractor in AZ and we rarely inject stop leak because replacement is always the best solution for the consumer. But not all consumers have the funds available and it is always best to offer solutions that fit the consumers' budget. The few times that we have used stop leak, it has performed as advertised with no adverse consequences; but it is only a temporary fix.
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Originally Posted By BCinAZ:
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By NeverBlue:
I just had our R-22 replaced w/R-427A this afternoon. It took 5lbs. and he added some leak stop for 5 bills. The unit is a 2002 vintage Trane. With any luck it will get me a couple more years before I need to replace it. Find a small Co that isn’t only interested in selling you an entire system w/a big fit warranty.
Leak stop is garbage and used by hacks.

I’d find a company that knows how to leak check a system and braze joints or replace leaking parts.

You got taken by the ol’ “gas and go” scam.
I disagree. The first few years that stop leak was available the formulas weren't very good and they could clog the system. The new stop leaks are much better and two are oem approved. Leaks in a coil, which is what NeverBlue most likely had, can not be brazed since Trane used an aluminum rim over copper tube design. $500 for a stop leak and recharge is not a bad price and he understands that it is a temporary measure, not a permanent solution. It sounds like the guy did you a favor offering you that low cost solution until you have the funds to upgrade the system.

I'm an HVAC contractor in AZ and we rarely inject stop leak because replacement is always the best solution for the consumer. But not all consumers have the funds available and it is always best to offer solutions that fit the consumers' budget. The few times that we have used stop leak, it has performed as advertised with no adverse consequences; but it is only a temporary fix.
We use it some simply due to it's either try that or it's new A/C time for the customer. If they can get a couple more years out of it then it'd worth it to them. Since you can only add R-22 once in a calendar year, we add leak stop, recharge and run it and see how long it lasts. I've seen some where we haven't been back for 3-4 years and it's still working fine.
Link Posted: 11/16/2019 8:30:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Nosmik:
Just had an estimate done. Did the analysis and came out to a 3T system. What's throwing me off is the total for the whole system install (Straight AC/Heating).

3T Daikin AC/Heating system. 12Yr parts and labor. No set line or ducts, everything else is included for $16K. They mentioned that an American Standard would be a similar price. I am still shopping around but that quote seems a bit off.
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Wow, that's double what we get in Az.
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