Posted: 11/5/2005 6:47:09 PM EDT
| Have a two day Simunitions Excercise next week...have no idea what to expect...any input. |
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Never done it but would like to some day. From what I hear from others that have gone through such courses is that it is one thing to punch holes in targets. Anyone can do that and score good hits. But it is a totally new ball game when someone is shooting back at you. Good luck and give us a range report of how it goes. |
I heard one of the guys running the show likes to get his rocks off doing just that...Picked up a cup today... I will have no problem paying him back after the "fun stops"...few things piss me off...people that think nut pain is funny is one of those things... 
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Got to play OpFor against the Force Recon group on the ship. They gave us the 1911s with Simunition kits, and made entry on us with M4's. Remind me never to bring only a pistol to a gun fight, ouch. That said, it's less painfull than paintball and a great training aid. As mentioned above, it is only realistic to about 25 feet, then the projectiles seem to fly off in all directions. Good for CQB. That said, it was my first time using a 1911 .45 pistol and I've been hooked ever since. Another time while I was an 8152 we practiced CQB tactics making entry into a "captured" weapons magazine against the real CQB team. We had our M16A2's and they were inside with their full auto MP5's. One of the OpFor's was my roomate at the time and thought it would be funny to dump a few bursts into my groin, even after I was down. He thought it was funny, I did not. |
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Puts things in a whole new light. I got nailed once right between the eyes (wearing a mask of course) while slicing the pie (dark room, no flashlight). I’ll never do that again. Next time it’ll be quick peeks (or maybe my hat on a stick!  ).You’ll probably notice issues continually argued about here - say about a nice feeling grip or a smooth triggerpull or such - simply pale to complete unimportance in these exercises. Good luck! An after-action report would be interesting. |
Do you think you could have held your own with a rifle? |
I have been shot many times I use sim rounds once a week for training skin can be broken even through heavy clothing depends on range and angle of shot... |
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If you ever end up as training cadre, expect to take hit on hit, and watch skin split. It sounds like you are going to a halfasses class if you are hearing comments like instructors screwing around, but your comments about evening up afterwards are even more childish. Don't bother going if you have that sort of attitude. |
Never quick peek it leaves you open to so many tactical angles if a badie is waiting for you...smoth and quick entry into a room is much better..... |
| Myself and several co-workers get to train at the Baker-19 urban village outside of Fallon NAS several times per year with SEALS. We get M4's with sims. +1 on wearing a cup. Standard Paintball mask also. We play the villagers/insurgents. Yes they sting a little bit-but not that bad. But definitely lets you know what it feels like to have hundreds of rounds hitting all around you from all directions! Then we get roughed up and flex cuffed and interrogated. |
Yeah, no doubt. Send me thru a shoot house shooting paper targets and I look like some delta ninja... throw in some OPFOR shooting back and I'm all over the place. I get nervous, try to be too fast and screw it all up. Hell if my unit can't get SIMs I wish we could just do CQB force on force with paintball guns... its so much better than just paper targets. |
Gotta go...job required. So the lead instructor likes to shoot guys in the testicles...what am I supposed to do. Take it? Sorry man...been through too much in life to grin and bear it. |
+1, besides the mask, neck protector, and cup. Most 'significant' injuries (not that significant) we've had have been to fingers. Gloves used to be optional but now they're mandatory. |
Gotta go...job required. So the lead instructor likes to shoot guys in the testicles...what am I supposed to do. Take it? Sorry man...been through too much in life to grin and bear it.[/quote] If your not in the military you still have quite a few rights. So if this is the case, simply make it clear your not going tolerate the instructor fucking around. It's not a game. I hope the instructor has a better attitude than to fuck around with something such as this or he has no right being the instructor. |
+1 |
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I got to do it at Camp Lejeune. Project Metropolis. Simunitions can break skin, and they can actually be used accurately for some good distance (at least they seemed so out of the rifles we were using. Basically a low-powered 9mm throwing a paint capsule. You should know when you are hit. |
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I went to Sim for their four day cert class, have been in and run scenarios using Sims FX. For Force on Force, it really is an eye-opener and valuable training; providing the scenarios, the role players, instructors and students have the proper attitude and motivation. "Playing around" with nut shots during or after the scenario is not the proper motivation or attitude. Having the time or situation where nut shots are considered SOP for the curriculum tells me that either the instructors have little control over their students or the instructors aren't professionals and taking training seriously. I really don't think it is a solid practice to violate safety protocols, even with a converted firearm, outside the bounds of a training scenario. |
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I’ve taken FOF with Simuntions several times, and been an Instructor for the class also. RULES: No exposed Flesh. Gloves, Long Sleeve Shirts, Mask, Helmet, Neck Protection, cup. I use a JT (Wally World Paint Ball) helmet face mask combo, polar fleece neck warmer for neck protections. No shots closer than 3 feet. Within 3 feet the detergent capsule has enough force to do internal damage and cause internal bleeding which can lead to death (kidney shoots). Pat down searches of all participants before the day starts. Leave knives, Back up guns, sticks, mace, etc in your car. You are going to be moving so much anyway leave your cell phone, pager, PDA, wallet etc in your car. Finding these items on the range later is bad news (slows up the class), having them broken in training bad news too. When someone leaves the training area, upon returning they must go through pat down again. It has happened before that a person leaves and brings back their duty 9mm and is now training FOF with REAL AMMO. No Revenge shootings. If you take a revenge shot your training is done for the day. Yes, I have had fellow students shoot me with in the 3 foot rule; I yelled “Three Feet!!!”, he pulled the trigger and drew blood with the shot on my arm, he promptly apologized, we shook hands and onto the next scenario. I have also shot an instructor in the face when I was a student; when I was informed of it I promptly apologized and he said “It happens”, I still feel like crap. I have had students shoot me in the knee when I was instructing, student says “Dang I did not know it was you!”; “Target ID” was my response; “Those were good hits though”...”No you hit me in the knee”; I never once thought go get a sim gun and light the student up. Things to think about or research before you go: Will the class be using your carry weapon? Can they get or do they have a simuntion kit your carry weapon? This will help you out in the long run. If you carry a back up gun, do they have a kit for that if you bring it? If you use a 38 or 357 wheel gun as back up there are shims in ever box of 38 simuntion ammo to convert your weapon. When you run out of ammo, or you primary sim weapon goes down transition. Other items to bring with you: Extra flashlight batteries. Extra flashlight bulbs. Extra flashlights. A cleaning kit (a bore snake is a great thing to have) on sight, and a cleaning rod. The sims are finicky on a good day. If the instructors will allow, clean the barrel every 3 to 5 simulations. A bunch of plastic junk will come out of the barrel. The rod is handy to remove stuck projectiles. I’ve seen revolvers with 9 projectiles in the barrel. This is a time to learn, and experiment. Tactics in my opinion are an art form, not a science. When have situation A, answer B is not always the way to solve the problem; it could be answer Z, M, and B2 that solves it today, and Q that solves it next time. |