[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Simunitions (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/4/2009 7:03:29 PM EDT
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If you havent, and you get the chance to use em, DO IT!
It opened my eyes big time, and I know feel pretty competant about getting into a confrontation. That is all.... |
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They hurt pretty good if you get hit at close range, but they add a new dimension to the realism of training.
One word of caution though. If you use them, make sure you punch your bore after word. One of our guys was cleaning his weapon just befor he went to the live fire qualification range. When he looked down the bore, he noticed it was clogged with something. SO he shoved the cleaning rod down there and out pops 6 simunition projectiles! 
THey had all piled up on eachother the day befor at the shoot house and he hadn't noticed. If he hadn't checked his weapon befor going live, it coulda got ugly. |
| We used them a lot in the Marines, great for CQB force on force training. It was the first time I ever held a 1911, since we used M9s. Since I was Opfor against the local Force Recon, we used their weapons, and a love afair was born. I had never in my life had a pistol fit me so natural. I still got shot up with M4s and MP5s, but it was to train them, not me. |
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Quoted: No it's CYA due to a lawsuit happy public and idiots who would treat these like Airsoft or paintball guns.Quoted: As far as i can see fom the simunition website its LEO/military only. sigh. SW  ... Unconstitutional.Simunitions can be a great training tool, it can also be very dangerous if not treated with respect and not use with the right safety gear. |
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Quoted:
They hurt pretty good if you get hit at close range, but they add a new dimension to the realism of training. One word of caution though. If you use them, make sure you punch your bore after word. One of our guys was cleaning his weapon just befor he went to the live fire qualification range. When he looked down the bore, he noticed it was clogged with something. SO he shoved the cleaning rod down there and out pops 6 simunition projectiles!
THey had all piled up on eachother the day befor at the shoot house and he hadn't noticed. If he hadn't checked his weapon befor going live, it coulda got ugly. HOW?!?!  If your buddy was going to a live fire shoot after using sims while keeping the sim blue barrel on then he is a dummy. There is a BIG reason why the sim barrels are blue. If you are using a stock barrel for sims then your an idiot. In short, I call BS.
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They hurt pretty good if you get hit at close range, but they add a new dimension to the realism of training. One word of caution though. If you use them, make sure you punch your bore after word. One of our guys was cleaning his weapon just befor he went to the live fire qualification range. When he looked down the bore, he noticed it was clogged with something. SO he shoved the cleaning rod down there and out pops 6 simunition projectiles!
THey had all piled up on eachother the day befor at the shoot house and he hadn't noticed. If he hadn't checked his weapon befor going live, it coulda got ugly. HOW?!?! If your buddy was going to a live fire shoot after using sims while keeping the sim blue barrel on then he is a dummy. There is a BIG reason why the sim barrels are blue. If you are using a stock barrel for sims then your an idiot. In short, I call BS.
Yep, you ALWAYS use a Sims barrel. Never seen a department use a "live" barrel for Sims, the liability issue is massive. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They hurt pretty good if you get hit at close range, but they add a new dimension to the realism of training. One word of caution though. If you use them, make sure you punch your bore after word. One of our guys was cleaning his weapon just befor he went to the live fire qualification range. When he looked down the bore, he noticed it was clogged with something. SO he shoved the cleaning rod down there and out pops 6 simunition projectiles! THey had all piled up on eachother the day befor at the shoot house and he hadn't noticed. If he hadn't checked his weapon befor going live, it coulda got ugly. HOW?!?! If your buddy was going to a live fire shoot after using sims while keeping the sim blue barrel on then he is a dummy. There is a BIG reason why the sim barrels are blue. If you are using a stock barrel for sims then your an idiot. In short, I call BS.Yep, you ALWAYS use a Sims barrel. Never seen a department use a "live" barrel for Sims, the liability issue is massive. IIRC they used to offer partial kits (now BCG, buffer & spring) and kits that would use the original barrel as a "cost effective" alternative to buying a Sim upper assembly. With the accidents that have happened - or almost happened - involving real functional weapons that were "made safe" (but not quite) during training it makes more sense from a liability and don't-hurt-yer-buddy standpoint to use a more dedicated and not-a-chance-in-hell-of-live-ammo setup. |
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I did some training with a local PD using simunitions. We were doing a school shooting scenario and I was one of the school shooters. It was a lot of fun, very informative, and very eye opening. It's a weird feeling to point your gun at someone and pull the trigger - it goes against everything we are ever taught about guns and it goes against every instinct in your body. Both the police officer and myself hesitated the first time we had each other in our sights.
Granted, in a real-deal situation I don't think that's as big of a deal, but it was definitely hard to pull that trigger. |
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Quoted:
I did some training with a local PD using simunitions. We were doing a school shooting scenario and I was one of the school shooters. It was a lot of fun, very informative, and very eye opening. It's a weird feeling to point your gun at someone and pull the trigger - it goes against everything we are ever taught about guns and it goes against every instinct in your body. Both the police officer and myself hesitated the first time we had each other in our sights. Granted, in a real-deal situation I don't think that's as big of a deal, but it was definitely hard to pull that trigger. I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you are genuinely terrified it might help but people don't generally defy their instincts in a fight or flight situation. That's exactly why training is so important; to counteract those responses. |
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I did some training with a local PD using simunitions. We were doing a school shooting scenario and I was one of the school shooters. It was a lot of fun, very informative, and very eye opening. It's a weird feeling to point your gun at someone and pull the trigger - it goes against everything we are ever taught about guns and it goes against every instinct in your body. Both the police officer and myself hesitated the first time we had each other in our sights. Granted, in a real-deal situation I don't think that's as big of a deal, but it was definitely hard to pull that trigger. I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you are genuinely terrified it might help but people don't generally defy their instincts in a fight or flight situation. That's exactly why training is so important; to counteract those responses. Granted, but (for myself, anyways) it was hard to pull the trigger on a police officer who is doing something I approve of - trying to dispatch a school shooter. I had 0 problems during other force on force drills that day. It was just the first time I had a boy in blue in my sights that I thought to myself "Holy shit, you're not supposed to shoot at co....holy fuck he just shot at me *pop*pop*pop*" |
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If you havent, and you get the chance to use em, DO IT! It opened my eyes big time, and I know feel pretty competant about getting into a confrontation. That is all.... 6 co-workers and I are scheduled to take part in a 2 day simunitions course in September. One of the perks of being a LEO is that I get paid to do cool stuff like this! 
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As far as i can see fom the simunition website its LEO/military only. sigh. SW ... Unconstitutional.WHy A private company can choose who to sell to Oh, didn't know it was the company rule and lawsuits. [/quote]No it's CYA due to a lawsuit happy public and idiots who would tread these like Airsoft or paintball guns. Simunitions can be a great training tool, it can also be very dangerous if not treated with respect and not use with the right safety gear. [/quote] |
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buddy of mine jus got nut shotted today playing terrorist during mout training  |
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I've used Sim Glocks several times in my LE career––they are definitely as realistic as you can get, IMO.
As for civ sales, that's a no go, for the aforementioned reasons. The Sim Glocks are also more expensive than the real thing, and the ammo is roughly $1 a round. For frequent usage, just get a quality airsoft gun. |
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My bride bustin' some sims.... 
Can you spot the mistake...? <a href="http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/CGN667/?action=view¤t=Simshoot.flv" target="_blank">http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/CGN667/th_Simshoot.jpg</a> 2nd shot was unnecessary 3rd was an obvious AD She pointed the weapon at the victim it appeared. Teach her a better shooting stance please!!! Also, we were issued blue glocks for our simunition training. Kept us from having paint in our duty weapons and worrying about blockages as mentioned earlier |
| Sorry, Airsoft force on force is nothing like simunitions. I'v done training with both. Simunitions sounds and looks like your under fire (even see flashes in low light) and you can walk away bloody. Room clearing with simunitions can produce a adrinaline dump that is as close as you can get to the real thing in training, If it's done right you almost forget it's not real and it can get dangerous. After doing that I also went through airsoft training with high priced airsoft glocks. I had a hard time even knowing I was being shot at or that my pistol was shooting, and those hit said it stung a little, |
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We used to train at Stu Segall Productions, a movie studio in Kearny Mesa (San Diego),
What ever happened w/ that lawsuit where one of Stu's role players evidently put an AK loaded w/ blanks and no bfa against the knee of a Marine and pulled the trigger? AFAIK the Marine got a medical discharge due to his destroyed knee.... |
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Quoted: I didn't hear about that. What year did that happen? We used our own role players when we trained there. We used to train at Stu Segall Productions, a movie studio in Kearny Mesa (San Diego), What ever happened w/ that lawsuit where one of Stu's role players evidently put an AK loaded w/ blanks and no bfa against the knee of a Marine and pulled the trigger? AFAIK the Marine got a medical discharge due to his destroyed knee.... |
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As far as i can see fom the simunition website its LEO/military only. sigh. SW ... Unconstitutional.Claiming this is similar to claiming that when someone tells you to SHUT UP, they are infringing on your 1st Amendment rights. The constitution, and the rights given from it are mainly between citizens and the govt. It has little to do with interactions between two private parties. |
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I did some training with a local PD using simunitions. We were doing a school shooting scenario and I was one of the school shooters. It was a lot of fun, very informative, and very eye opening. It's a weird feeling to point your gun at someone and pull the trigger - it goes against everything we are ever taught about guns and it goes against every instinct in your body. Both the police officer and myself hesitated the first time we had each other in our sights. Granted, in a real-deal situation I don't think that's as big of a deal, but it was definitely hard to pull that trigger. I wouldn't be so sure about that. If you are genuinely terrified it might help but people don't generally defy their instincts in a fight or flight situation. That's exactly why training is so important; to counteract those responses. Actually most firearm training makes it difficult to shoot another person. Think about it - gun owners are conditioned from day 1 of the basic safety classes to "Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction", which means you damned well better not be pointing it at anybody. Do this for years, and it can become very difficult to overcome. That said, I have also trained with Sims and found it useful. They also hurt a lot more than Airsoft. |
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When I shoot at the range, i always train with silohette targets, so shooting a "person" was not a problem for me.
It wasnt a person, it was a "threat". It was awesome training, and I look forward to doing it again in the near future. I just think its sad that I have more training and understanding of a shootout than most cops do. Cops in the course admitted they had never done anything like it, and that parts of the training (baricade shooting, kneeling, room clearing) was all foreign to them. |
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They hurt pretty good if you get hit at close range, but they add a new dimension to the realism of training. One word of caution though. If you use them, make sure you punch your bore after word. One of our guys was cleaning his weapon just befor he went to the live fire qualification range. When he looked down the bore, he noticed it was clogged with something. SO he shoved the cleaning rod down there and out pops 6 simunition projectiles!
THey had all piled up on eachother the day befor at the shoot house and he hadn't noticed. If he hadn't checked his weapon befor going live, it coulda got ugly. HOW?!?! If your buddy was going to a live fire shoot after using sims while keeping the sim blue barrel on then he is a dummy. There is a BIG reason why the sim barrels are blue. If you are using a stock barrel for sims then your an idiot. In short, I call BS.
What blue barrel, the ones we used only required the BCG to be swapped out, not the barrell.  We use the same weapon we are issued for going downrange, we don't have special blue weapons for this shit.
So I call BS on your BS, how's that make ya feel Mr Smart guy? |
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As far as i can see fom the simunition website its LEO/military only. sigh. SW ... Unconstitutional.Claiming this is similar to claiming that when someone tells you to SHUT UP, they are infringing on your 1st Amendment rights. The constitution, and the rights given from it are mainly between citizens and the govt. It has little to do with interactions between two private parties. Already corrected by others. |
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The ones we used didn't look like this one. THey were in a silver casing that expanded when fired, and the "paintball" was sort of protected by a cage type deal. I know my discription sucks but I'm going off of a 1 year old memory here. EDIT: Still looking for a pic, but here it is from Wiki. FX Force-on-Force System FX marking cartridges are a line of training ammunition that can be fired through standard firearms. The cartridges come in 9mm/.38 and 5.56mm calibers and fires using a special pressurized gas system for a reduced velocity. The projectile is filled with a detergent-based, water-soluble colored marking compound. The projectile breaks upon impact, marking the target and allowing trainers to assess the accuracy and lethality of the hits. This system is used extensively in the USMC and is known as SESAMS (Special Effect Small Arms Marking System). Here's a pic of some "idiot" Marines using real weapons with simunitions. Do you see any blue barrells? 
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Quoted: The simunition pistols I have used were pretty unreliable. Too much running around while trying to clear malfunctions for my taste. They are fun though Same here but I'm 99% sure this is a maintenance issue. Most departments don't issue blue guns and thus no one takes care of them. Sim paint gets gummy as hell after a few days of not cleaning the gun. |
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Has anyone tried loading brass cases with just a tiny bit of a fluffy, slow burning powder and a long (leaving very little room for powder) paint projectile? I'm sure making the paint projectile would be the hard part, but it would sure be cheaper than simunitions!
Of course, safety would be pretty iffy... |