Posted: 11/4/2005 7:17:55 AM EDT
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Why is this no longer enforced or no longer law? SEDITION: n. the federal crime of advocacy of insurrection against the government or support for an enemy of the nation during time of war, by speeches, publications and organization. Sedition usually involves actually conspiring to disrupt the legal operation of the government and is beyond expression of an opinion or protesting government policy. Sedition is a lesser crime than "treason," which requires actual betrayal of the government, or "espionage." Espionage involves spying on the government, trading state secrets (particularly military) to another country (even a friendly nation), or sabotaging governmental facilities, equipment or suppliers of the government, like an aircraft factory. During U.S. participation in World War II (1941-1945) several leaders of the German-American Bund, a pro-Nazi organization, were tried and convicted of sedition for actively interfering with the war effort. Since freedom of speech, press and assembly are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and because treason and espionage charges can be made for overt acts against the nation's security, sedition charges are rare. We could make quick work of Michael Moore, Jane Fonda and a host of others if we could enforce it.  |
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It might have had something to do with this, Bill of Rights Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. ETA: Not that I think people that actually do things in support of our enemies shouldn't be shot  , but who decides who blurs the lines?
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Nope. The first amendment still stands. |
MM isn't even a citizen, he is Canadian!! (Sorry Striker...you're one of the "good" Canadians.) 
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It still is the law - but ever since Vietnam it hasn't been enforced because... well because we lost the last American Revolution in the 1960s. Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, John Kerry, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, American Indian Movement, Black Panthers, A.N.S.W.E.R... they all should have been rounded up and executed for treason. But they weren't because they won the second American Revolution. * United States Code o TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE + PART I - CRIMES # CHAPTER 115 - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES US Code. Title 18. Part I. Chapter 115. Section 2381. Treason Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. Section 2383. Rebellion or insurrection Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. Section 2384. Seditious conspiracy If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. Section 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons. Section 2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war (a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. (b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a). (c) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe or suspect, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. (d) This section shall apply within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States, and on the high seas, as well as within the United States. |
If that was actually enforced, it wouldn't just be the liberals who would be getting arrested. Theres quite a few people on this and other gun boards who would find themselves behind bars, what with all of the complaining and commentary about the government that goes on. |
To hell with Michael Moore and Jane Fonda. We could take out the entire ACLU, and United for Peace and Justice with that little detail! Men, grab your pitchforks, there's right that needs doin'! |
Congress voted to approve US military action to overthrow Saddam - sounds pretty clear to me at least that they "declared" war with that vote, but I'm sure that would be slapped down if it were ever to be brought before the courts. In fact, MOST American wars were never "declared" by formal means: Congress declared war in only five of the fifteen major wars in which the U.S.A. has been involved: 1. The War of 1812 against Great Britain [1812-1814] 2. The Mexican-U.S.A. War [1846-1848] 3. The Spanish-American War [1898] 4. World War I [1917-1918] 5. World War II [1941-1945] In each of the ten other major US wars, Congress did not pass a declaration of war and the President did not recommend to Congress that it pass such a declaration. The ten undeclared major wars were: 1. The U.S. naval war with France [1798-1800] 2. The first war against the Barbary pirate states of North Africa [1801-1805] 3. The second war against the Barbary states [1815] 4. The Mexican-U.S.A. conflicts immediately preceeding American entrance into World War I [1914-1917] 5. The Korean War [1950-1953] 6. The Vietnam War [1961-1975] 7. The Persian Gulf War [1991] 8. The Kosovo-Yugoslav War [1999] 9. The Afghanistan OEF War [2001-] 10. The Iraq War [2003-] (edited) Here's a couple of interesting quotes regarding declaration of war, one from the Gulf War and one from the Iraq War: "The reason we did not declare a formal war was not because there is any difference I think in the action that was taken and in a formal declaration of war with respect to military operations, but because there is some question about whether we wish to excite or enact some of the domestic consequences of a formal declaration of war -- seizure of property, censorship, and so forth, which the President neither sought nor desired." ~ Speaker of the House Tom Foley, February 7, 1991 regarding why Congress didn't "declare war" during the Gulf War. "There are things in the Constitution that have been overtaken by events, by time. Declaration of war is one of them. There are things no longer relevant to a modern society. Why declare war if you don't have to? We are saying to the President, use your judgment... Inappropriate, anachronistic, it isn't done anymore." ~ Henry Hyde, Chairman of House Committee on International Relations in response to Ron Paul's admonition that Congress must formally declare war against Iraq rather than just pass a resolution approving use of military force, October 3, 2002. Thus, apparently today politicians don't WANT to confront all the domestic consequences that would be automatically triggered by a formal declaration of war because that would necessitate ENFORCING sedition and treason laws against the Fifth Column leftists that took over America back in the 1960s. So basically we're left with this - how the hell can we muster the will to WIN a war if we can't even must the will to DECLARE war? |
I wonder if it has anything to do with congress wanting to maintain some level of meddling. Congress has always tried to limit the President's ability to execute his duties as commander in chief. That's why we have the war powers act. If the congress declares war then perhaps they feel that it will be interpreted as carte blanche authority for the President to do his duty and fight the was as he sees fit. Without a formal declaration of war Congress may feel that they are preserving their ability to interfere with the running of the war. One man's opinon. |
Although, given the current war we're in now - I don't really see them doing much to "meddle" in the war other than to undercut morale through the media and embolden our enemies to continue fighting. |
And demanding a time table for withdrawl, and define the rules by which our soldiers can interrogate enemy combatants. |