[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG's Real P320 Problem is no Longer Uncommanded Discharges - Gun Jesus (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 7/27/2025 9:00:52 AM EDT
Pretty balanced view.  SIG's Real P320 Problem is no Longer Uncommanded Discharges |
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I'm not sure I buy his theory that Sig doesn't know what's going on with the 320. But Sig did release it not drop safe, so they do seem like dolts, so maybe. If Sig does know what's up and has avoided a recall to help defend products liability and avoid problems with their military contract I wonder whether Sig will eventually end up before Congress and maybe in court with criminal charges. |
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Quoted: Summary : 2 problems. One, Sig doesn't yet know what is causing the UDs, but can probably fix it eventually. Two, brand reputational damage that they will never overcome. I love my P365, and even wanted a Macro, but I’ll probably go another direction for my next handgun. Sig is a BAD actor here. |
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Quoted: Good on him for using the Echelon for comparison. If SA isn't guerrilla marketing the Echelon to LE agencies currently issuing the P320 right now then their entire board and CEO should be replaced. Springfield seems to have just stopped marketing the Echelon and the Hellion after like a year of release for some reason |
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Quoted: Summary : 2 problems. One, Sig doesn't yet know what is causing the UDs, but can probably fix it eventually. Two, brand reputational damage that they will never overcome. They could solve their reputation problem by peddling some BS about firing all engineers working on the 320 problem, hire a new team of the best engineers money can buy, claim the new team has identified the problem, and that they're issuing a full and unconditional recall of every 320 and will either refund full MSRP or issue a voucher for some other sig product of similar value. eta that probably wouldnt help them with all the ongoing lawsuits though so I dont expect they would |
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Quoted: Whoever figures it out and offers a conversion upgrade to make it safe will make $$ Any such conversion would have to utilize the serial numbered chassis frame. If the proper fix involves a complete or near complete new chassis design, then the only way the fix could be offered would be for the customer to send in his/her current chassis, which they (The FFL mfr) would transfer your serial number to the new chassis and destroy the old one. |
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Quoted: Whoever figures it out and offers a conversion upgrade to make it safe will make $$ I'm laying bucks it's the stamped FCU body. The up and down play between the FCU rails and the slide is pretty noticeable on some pistols. Warfighter Machining made an 80% P320 FCU at one time. They were pricey. I wished I had gotten one when they made them. |
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Quoted: I agree with is overall take which is the 320 is so tainted at this point. Fixing it won't solve the problem. Discontinue the gun and revise the 365 to a full size service pistol. They may not be able to discontinue it. The mil contract likely requires them to maintain a production line capable of a certain rate of production for wartime needs. They may be able to repurpose the production line for something else but maintaining 320 production capability without producing will cost them and it pretty much guarantees that they'll be losing money on any small mil orders. |
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Quoted: They may not be able to discontinue it. The mil contract likely requires them to maintain a production line capable of a certain rate of production for wartime needs. They may be able to repurpose the production line for something else but maintaining 320 production capability without producing will cost them and it pretty much guarantees that they'll be losing money on any small mil orders. That's why Trump should issue an executive order making it so |
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Quoted: looking forward to having to send my pistol back a 2nd time.    |
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Quoted: That's why Trump should issue an executive order making it so Quoted: Quoted: They may not be able to discontinue it. The mil contract likely requires them to maintain a production line capable of a certain rate of production for wartime needs. They may be able to repurpose the production line for something else but maintaining 320 production capability without producing will cost them and it pretty much guarantees that they'll be losing money on any small mil orders. That's why Trump should issue an executive order making it so The mil releasing them from the contract is probably the best thing that could happen to them right now. That's unlikely though - if the mil drops the 320 to go buy something else then there'll be a massive gov lawsuit pending.for underperformance (at best). |
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Quoted: I shot mine once before the drop safety thing came to light. I figured if it came out that badly flawed it wasn't worth bothering with. I never shot it again and have been reluctant to sell it. Bah Frankly, the whole debacle left a really bad taste in my mouth as far as SIG is concerned. I think it unlikely I'd ever buy any new handguns from them again. |
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Quoted: I'm not sure I buy his theory that Sig doesn't know what's going on with the 320. But Sig did release it not drop safe, so they do seem like dolts, so maybe. If Sig does know what's up and has avoided a recall to help defend products liability and avoid problems with their military contract I wonder whether Sig will eventually end up before Congress and maybe in court with criminal charges. Congress subpoenaing and releasing information related to the M17/M18 procurement contract could be a boon to the USAF/Army investigation and the P320 lawsuits. Lawyers could twist all sorts of things, like if the M17/M18 use US made parts vs the P320 use Indian parts, or if the M17/M18 have different part designs (or even revision numbers) vs P320, etc. Kharn |
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Quoted: I sent my two back to SIG for the initial trigger "fix." However, my faith in the gun was so shaken, after they came back, they went into my safe and never came out. Frankly, the whole debacle left a really bad taste in my mouth as far as SIG is concerned. I think it unlikely I'd ever buy any new handguns from them again. Quoted: Quoted: I shot mine once before the drop safety thing came to light. I figured if it came out that badly flawed it wasn't worth bothering with. I never shot it again and have been reluctant to sell it. Bah Frankly, the whole debacle left a really bad taste in my mouth as far as SIG is concerned. I think it unlikely I'd ever buy any new handguns from them again. I read too many stories about them to ever want to purchase one......I almost bought a Flux Raider but this whole thing killed it for me |
| I will say that an Sig P226 SAO X5 is about as nice as a production handgun can get, but I don’t trust them to not fill it full of MIM silliness at this point. MIM isn’t even a bad way to make parts that are appropriate to make from MIM processes, but the firearm industry seems to have terrible QC with MIM compared to aerospace and automotive applications. |
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Quoted: Springfield seems to have just stopped marketing the Echelon and the Hellion after like a year of release for some reason Quoted: Quoted: Good on him for using the Echelon for comparison. If SA isn't guerrilla marketing the Echelon to LE agencies currently issuing the P320 right now then their entire board and CEO should be replaced. Springfield seems to have just stopped marketing the Echelon and the Hellion after like a year of release for some reason I think we may be in the lull between the 4.0 model and subcompact being released. It would be huge for them if even a few agencies adopted it. I thought the SigPro would get more traction after a few US agencies picked it up and it performed well, but it kind of died on the vine too I think because everyone was moving to striker fired pistols. |
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Quoted: I'm not sure I buy his theory that Sig doesn't know what's going on with the 320. But Sig did release it not drop safe, so they do seem like dolts, so maybe. If Sig does know what's up and has avoided a recall to help defend products liability and avoid problems with their military contract I wonder whether Sig will eventually end up before Congress and maybe in court with criminal charges. 
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I wish whoever runs this place would implement a 'current thing' forum as has been suggested so many times, so we could put all these 320 threads in one place. Or perhaps instead of putting them in a separate forum, they could just allow mods to tag them as 'current thing' and we could view GD through a filter with 'current thing' toggled on or off. Covid Epstein Obama Sig 320 Seems like every few weeks/months a thing becomes all the rage, until the next thing takes over. |
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Quoted: I think we may be in the lull between the 4.0 model and subcompact being released. It would be huge for them if even a few agencies adopted it. I thought the SigPro would get more traction after a few US agencies picked it up and it performed well, but it kind of died on the vine too I think because everyone was moving to striker fired pistols. I sold a ton of 2022s over the years and they always seemed like decent pistols. At the price point though there are like 6 other guns I would consider first and the Walther PDP and PDP Pro are probably the most underrated guns on the market right now. |
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Quoted: I sent my two back to SIG for the initial trigger "fix." However, my faith in the gun was so shaken, after they came back, they went into my safe and never came out. Frankly, the whole debacle left a really bad taste in my mouth as far as SIG is concerned. I think it unlikely I'd ever buy any new handguns from them again. |
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Quoted: the conversion upgrade is buying a different gun. the cost of a kit like that would cost as much as a new pistol would. Quoted: Quoted: Whoever figures it out and offers a conversion upgrade to make it safe will make $$ the conversion upgrade is buying a different gun. the cost of a kit like that would cost as much as a new pistol would. Not to mention the lawsuits when your kit was marketed as "making the gun safe", and it doesn't work. |
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Quoted: I sold a ton of 2022s over the years and they always seemed like decent pistols. At the price point though there are like 6 other guns I would consider first and the Walther PDP and PDP Pro are probably the most underrated guns on the market right now. Quoted: Quoted: I think we may be in the lull between the 4.0 model and subcompact being released. It would be huge for them if even a few agencies adopted it. I thought the SigPro would get more traction after a few US agencies picked it up and it performed well, but it kind of died on the vine too I think because everyone was moving to striker fired pistols. I sold a ton of 2022s over the years and they always seemed like decent pistols. At the price point though there are like 6 other guns I would consider first and the Walther PDP and PDP Pro are probably the most underrated guns on the market right now. Agreed. Me and my business partner carried for work and we both had SP2340s and shot almost weekly. While the trigger mechanisms were distinctly different from classic Sigs, the feel and reliability of the SigPros were on par with classic Sigs. Only parted ways with mine because I moved exclusively to 9mm. |
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Quoted: I agree with is overall take which is the 320 is so tainted at this point. Fixing it won't solve the problem. Discontinue the gun and revise the 365 to a full size service pistol. He was spot on with this, and the sooner they cut-bait the better. All the agencies out there with P320's aren't going to get their usual credit on turn in when buying something new because no distributor or dealer is going to want the liability of selling them. The best Sig could do to make nice with them is to offer something else, while developing something like a P365 Service Pistol. Same thing with civilian owners, is either offer something for the guns they won't be able to sell through a dealer or distributor (private sales would still be possible but could offer some liability if selling to someone who isn't aware of the issue) or give them some $$$ to buy something else while they try to develop something else. Their reputation is shit and if they don't own it, they risk the "bud-light" treatment in sales on all their other products that don't have the P320 firing/safety mechanism. I've owned a few P320's and have liked them. Only have one left, unfired, of course a more expensive model  and it will stay in the safe until something changes. Have a number of other Sigs, traditional and modern, none of which have the P320 sickness, and I'll continue to use them all day long w/o concern. Until I see some humble ownership from Sig, I doubt I'll be buying anything from them in the near future (new products) but would have no problem picking up any of their other products in a private sale if the price is right
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Quoted: Agreed. Me and my business partner carried for work and we both had SP2340s and shot almost weekly. While the trigger mechanisms were distinctly different from classic Sigs, the feel and reliability of the SigPros were on par with classic Sigs. Only parted ways with mine because I moved exclusively to 9mm. I sold my Raider and at this point my only Sig is an older P226 with Legion spec fire control and the E2 grip upgrade kit. It’s legitimately a nice pistol but not a big seller for them anymore because the new equivalent is around $1200. |
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Quoted: I wish whoever runs this place would implement a 'current thing' forum as has been suggested so many times, so we could put all these 320 threads in one place. Or perhaps instead of putting them in a separate forum, they could just allow mods to tag them as 'current thing' and we could view GD through a filter with 'current thing' toggled on or off. Covid Epstein Obama Sig 320 Seems like every few weeks/months a thing becomes all the rage, until the next thing takes over. Zeitgeist Forum seconded. |
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I have 3 320s and 2 365. All of them are in the safe. My conceal carry gun now is a Taurus 650 revolver, safer and no concerns of an uncommanded discharge. As, I have said before, I never have had a problem with the Sigs but it is better to be on the safe side. |
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Another educational video. Ian does a good job in breaking things down in all the videos I’ve seen—which is great as a learning point. SIG is essentially dealing with a situation similar to Colt’s mess from M16 powder & cost/budget firearm changes that made the M16’s “issues.” Yes, I know it’s different, but SIG has historically made good guns—they’re at the “hug the cactus & own it” like Mel Gibson once said. The problem with SIG is they’ve doubled-down so many times, public head-rolling is the only way the public & .mil will be happy & convinced change is afoot. |
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Quoted: Whoever figures it out and offers a conversion upgrade to make it safe will make $$ No they won't, and they'd be stupid to try. All an inventor of a "fix" would do is add their name to the list of defendants in civil suits. The problems have hit the mainstream now. Every person who had an AD or ND with a 320, even their own fault, is going to be suing SIG. The design is tainted. |
IMHO that's especially sad that they have reverted to labeling anyone that questions the product is "anti gun". For the love of Christ, most the souls here on Arf in GD that discuss and argue about this have more ARs than they can remember buying. 
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Quoted: I hate the feel of a glock. I carry a g47 for duty, and a g26 off duty. I'll put up with the shitty aspects of the Austrian brick for the reliability and safety. |