Posted: 11/21/2004 4:57:24 PM EDT
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I'm looking at getting a new BC soon and I've had my eye on a Zeagle Ranger LTD for some time now. I like a lot of the features of the BC, especially the idea of an external bladder. First off, do any of you own a Ranger BC and how do you like it? Secondly, the local dive shop tells everyone to stay away from back-inflation BC's because they "put your face in the water when you're trying to float on the surface". That particular shop doesn't sell any back-inflation BC's. Have any of you experienced this with a back-inflation design? Everything I have read about the Ranger has nothing but praise for the BC. I have not read a single review that said anything about not being able to stay verticle while on the surface. I currently borrow an Oceanic Probe for diving and while I do like it, I like the features of the Zeagle much more. Thanks in advance for any input. |
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Back-inflated BC's (also known as "wings") do, in fact, tend to put your face into the water when on the surface, but they are far superior UNDER the surface because you are face down when swimming, and it's all behind you, so less obtrusive. Cave divers prefer wings because they allow better bouyancy control, and that is CRITICAL in a cave. I'm certain, however, that there is probably a way to use them open-ocean. I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Zeaglar. Been a LONG time since I shopped for Scuba gear, unfortunately... 
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One thing I thought would probably help the issue would be to use ankle weights to keep your feet underwater... |
That will suck when you start diving because the lever arm of the weight will drag your feet down. No good. Besides, that will help the wings pull you face-down anyway. What I HAVE seen is weights strapped to the TANK such that they apply a counter-force to the floatation provided by the wings. Unfortunately, they have to be HEAVY to counterbalance your body, and in an emergency they are extremely difficult to dump. You may want to give Dive-Rite a phone call. They specialize in cave-diving equipment and wing-type flotation, so thay may be able to tell you haw to balance your weight distribution. |
I never liked the idea of tank weights... I may call Dive Rite or Zeagle to see what they recommend. |
| I prefer the back-inflated BCD's but they do tend to tip you forward but you learn to compensate for them pretty quickly. No big deal. The only time I can see where it might be an issue is if you were unconcious, but as long as you dive with a buddy, you're OK. |
The back inflation design is nice because when you add air to the BC, your pockets don't move away from you. My problem with the Probe is that when I add air to the vest, I have trouble reaching the zippers on the side pockets. This among other issues has me looking at the Zeagle. As for the unconscious issue, I have been strongly considering going to a full-face mask so unconscious or not, I would still be ok. |
Ditto. I prefer the clean lines under my arms. As for being unconscious with a full face mask, that's probably just as dangerous. Call Dive-Rite. They'll know what to recommend. |
In Scuba Diving magazine, one of the advantages they listed on the full-face was that the regulator is actually connected to your head... that way if you are unconscious, the reg doesn't fall out of your mouth. Of course, it makes more sense just to not end up unconscious. 
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If you have any reason to expect that you are subject to blackouts or siezures, you should not be diving at all, so if you think you have a reason to fear this, a full face mask may give you a tiny amount of confidence to offset a serious danger. The only legitimate purpose for a full face mask is the use of underwater communications gear. Any other reason (hate water in the face/eyes, don't want to lose my regulator if I blackout/have a siezure/panic, etc.) is a signal that you should reevaluate your decision to dive. A BC is not a life jacket. It is not intended to be used as surface flotation for safety purposes. It's sole purpose is to provide you with the ability to control your bouyancy under water. Misusing safety equipment is bad procedure, no matter what you're doing. If your dive shop is using the "life jacket" arguement against a back inflate wing, you need to find another dive shop. Dive wings aren't the solution to every problem, though, and Zeagle was once the Cadillac of dive equipment. They started allowing their dealers to sell via mail order and the Internet, so most dive shops talk them down. If you have a chance to rent a Zeagle BC and it's fit correctly, you'll probably like it. The same is true of a Dive Rite, OMS or Halcyon wing. It's harder to find rental "technical" diving gear and it's much more personalized for diving than standard BC's. I would also recommend www.scubaboard.com for more technical questions and to look at reviews of SCUBA equipment. Tachyon |
I'm not at all worried about passing out. I haven't experienced a single health issue related to diving. I was just responding to that particular concern posted by Zaphod. I'm not looking at a full-face mask for the unconscious aspect... my dive group and I are thinking strongly about underwater communications gear. |
I am so tempted by that - I know it would cost a buttload of money for two full-face masks and the com gear, but it would be awesome. My fiancee is my dive buddy, and we do all our diving together, so it would definietly come in handy. Then she could yell at me underwater, too   More on-topic, I've got no expereince with the Zeagle Ranger, but I've talked to people who use them, and they seem to really like them. Back-inflation BCs seem to be just a matter of making an adjustment and getting use to it, nothing more. |
About $1k per person.... but it would be worth it. We are mainly considering it because we have gotten into underwater photography and videography and would love to be able to narrate our videos. |
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Cool, I've just seen some people try to mitigate real dangers when they should be considering whether the activity is appropriate rather than whiz-bangs to reduce existing problems. UW Comm Gear is very useful, especially in limited visibility or night dives. Even the best diver can get lonely under water. :) Tachyon |
If I had health issues related to diving, I wouldn't be diving. My health is more important than having a little fun. Seeing people try to dive that SHOULDN'T be diving always makes me shake my head. This isn't about failing, it's about DYING if something goes wrong at 80 feet. Some people just don't get it. |
I was just thinking about it the other day, since we've had several experiences where communicating underwater was really crucial, and it took lots of time (and air) to get things figured out - even with a slate. Is that with a new second stage, or are there full-face masks that will accomodate any second stage? It it was 1K per person for the full-face mask, WITH second-stage and com gear, I'd consider getting it. Coincidentally, we're going diving in West Palm on Tuesday and Wednesday. Yeah
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You can get an Ocean Reef Neptune II full-face mask with 1st. and 2nd. stage regulators for $580 and the underwater comms gear for $569. These prices are from Leisurepro. www.leisurepro.com/Catalog.aspx?Op=CatDisplay&CategoryID=1946&Context=974 |
Those are the same ones I've been thinking about . Thanks. At the risk of a threadjack - does anyone (other than none ) have expereince with full-face masks with two-way communication? Maybe there's a Christmas present for both of us in it? |
I'm None's dive buddy, and used the same stup that he did. Speech was garbled and hard to understand, the face piece was incrdably uncomfortable, all in all, a PITA. Cypher, I have a Aqualung Malibu, very similar to the Ranger. It has non-dump weight pockets in the back, and a few pounds back there really mitigates the face down thing. We've practiced ditching weights, and the non-dumped weights aren't a big handicap at all. Back inflation is also a great wat to avoid the 'squeeze' that some BCs produce. The back inflation also situates you perfectly underwater, and is nicely streamlined. Overall, I'm quite happy with the setup. |
You don't happen to remember the manufacturer of the mask you used, do you? |
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I have a Ranger BC and I'm not really happy with it. I have steel 120s and the Ranger slops around on my back with them. With aluminun 80s its ok but I dont dive 80s. I prefer a BC with a back plate but I traded 'up' for my Ranger and I'm stuck with it. I just deal with it. Let me qualify my remarks: I spearfish, which entails lots of rolling around looking in holes in ledges. For just sightseeing, its fine. 
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I realy love back inflation BCs. I don't understand how I enjoyed diving before them. I don't have any problems with buoancy on the surface but I use ankle weights. Tank weights are another solution. Most rear inflation BCs have a couple of bouches (for about 4lbs of soft weight) on the back. You can also put a hard weight on the tank strap. I have used the Zeagle Ranger and it is well made. My current BC is a Mares Journey from Divers Direct. I love it and not to expensive either. My personal feeling about dive shops is; they are to expensive and will give you bad advice to sell what they have in stock. YMMV |
That is my experience with dive shops as well. My uncle paid $500 for an Oceanic Probe from the local dive shop... I found an identical one online for $375 new. Needless to say, he was pissed. |
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I dive an Abyss back mounted BC that is weight integrated. But, I also use a weight belt with 5lbs at the same time. 5lbs is enough to get me and my 5 mil farmer john and jacket or dry suit neutral. With 5lbs on the belt and the balance in the BC weight pockets this setup allows me to stay upright at the surface. It also gives me the ability to remove the BC underwater and not shoot to the surface. Take a look at the SDI/TDI Solo Diver course. You may never dive solo but you will learn some interesting things about your gear configuration. You may get more responses taking this question to the SCUBAboard.com forums. Doc |
