Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 6/3/2008 8:40:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 8:40:07 PM EST by Forest]
Just a quick check on how many have experience range lunacy? See today was my first day. I go to this really small range in NY. Almost no one is there on weekends, and i go at least once a month. This retard comes in with a few firearms, and i was like w/e fine. He barely waits for me to stop shooting and begins down range to set up his targets. Maybe he was anxious, fine let that one slide. Comes back and i am putting my gun back talking to my buddy who came with about my grouping and his previous. Suddenly hear retard tinkering with his damn gun. Lookin at him, he is screwin with the mag and his finger is near the trigger. Well thank god he has it pointed down cause sure enough the second the bolt closed (ak47 btw) it went off. Retard then fires two more rounds where he should have sent the first, then i think the gun jams again or he is out of ammo (i was starting to pack up b4 i was next). With the magazine still in, finger in the trigger housing/well spins around and sets it down and begins to fiddle again. Nothing else horrible happened except for his two foot grouping at 50 yards, (had spotting scope took a quick look b4 i ran away). I have only been at A range for 3 months now, and already i have had this. Is this freaking common place? Ohh and i will look into getting his a$$ banned.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:57:22 AM EST
Well yes my punctuation is horrible. Anyways yes it is my fault for not helping, but i honestly wanted outta there bad. Next time i will assist and just go from there. Also i do believe as with anything else accidents happen. Who is to say that someone who has been "safe" for 50 years, drops his pistol and picks it up via the trigger and it goes off. (insert situation where that was the only area to grab pistol). Just the way it is. Sorta like smackin your little toe on a chair in the kitchen, it happens.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:23:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sivnet:
Well yes my punctuation is horrible. Anyways yes it is my fault for not helping, but i honestly wanted outta there bad. Next time i will assist and just go from there. Also i do believe as with anything else accidents happen. Who is to say that someone who has been "safe" for 50 years, drops his pistol and picks it up via the trigger and it goes off. (insert situation where that was the only area to grab pistol). Just the way it is. Sorta like smackin your little toe on a chair in the kitchen, it happens.
My first reaction would have been to be afraid of that jerk myself. I don't tend to carry while I'm on a rifle range—I sort of expect everyone there to be safe and sane, and having someone threaten me with violence would really rattle me.

I would have put up my guns and headed for the office as soon as Mr. Jerk told me he might point his gun at me. And I would have called the police too; that's technically "assault" and aggravated by his threatening to use a gun.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:27:36 AM EST
IBTL
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:17:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:38:20 AM EST
IBTL, bitches! (nothing to contribute, just that)
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:57:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 6:01:44 AM EST by dport]

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

What is he, your boyfriend?





Some advice. Your attitude is not going to win over many people here. You want to be involved and get help and enjoyment from the site, mellow out a touch. You're coming off as a cocky hot head.

Spirited debate with little friendly jabs are fine, insulting people will get you ostracized or banned.


Noted.

I'm not really here to make friends though... just say what I think.

I do enjoy this site, and I get a lot out of it, but I really don't think that I need to change who I am in order to post here.

I'm a Marine, we aren't always PC, and we don't care what people think about it. This thread is basically just for fun, and meaningless anyway.

The Marines I know are concerned with projecting a positive image of the corps. But they're all good Marines.

ETA: What's really interesting is that you're using the excuse that you're a Marine and not always PC to excuse poor behavior.

Also no one here is "explaining away" an ND. They're saying that it is important to follow the four rules of gun safety because an ND is possible and the consequences of the ND can be very grave.

All I know is that with your holier than thou attitude and your unwillingness to be corrected, even when you're acting a fool, you're the last person who posted in this thread that I would shoot with.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 8:56:32 AM EST
I've had people start shooting while I was (obviously) downrange posting a target during a properly called cease-fire.

I've also witnessed unintentional discharges, where you could hardly blame the operator. Fortunately, the muzzle was pointed downrange when the rifle slam fired during chambering.

<---not an asshole
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 11:29:56 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By leetninja:
i am really not the kind of guy that reports people. I have seen things like this but i have immediately offered help in friendly way.

The one time i reported someone was when I got attitude from them. This particular moron loaded a revolver with the barrel pointed at his face. I was right next to him and said "Hey nice revolver... what kind is it?" he replied and that was fine it was when I said "So you know you should probably not point that thing at your face while you load it right?" and i kind of laughed a little. He looked at me and said "well its not like its gunna go off when im loading it this way" (he had also closed the fully loaded chamber while the guna was still pointed at his face basically) i said "well i guess but its just a better practice to always point downrange even if it cant go boom yet. that whole dont point at anything you dont intend or want to shoot rule ya know?" wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but his response was "you know what? until you own one just shut the fuck up and hope that I dont point it at you next"


LOL, wow. It is sad that these people breed and vote.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 11:31:23 AM EST
I think the whole problem started with this post:


Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.




I don't see a problem with 0311Hoosier's post. I don't buy the "WHEN, not if" statement either. I know people who've gone their entire live without getting in an auto accident, I know people who've never had an AD or ND in all their life (for me, that's close to 30 years of shooting, starting with BB guns), and I point my firearms at things I don't plan on shooting all the time - to practice snapping in I'll sometime stand up while watching a movie and pick a character that I "shoot" every time I see him. If you've cleared the weapon beforehand and there's no mag in, you won't shoot anything.

And I think saying that a flyer is an AD is, IMO, silly. I don't see how anyone could consider it an AD when you're tucked in behind your rifle and pulling the trigger with the intent of sending a bullet downrange. Just MHO.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 11:44:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 11:45:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 2:42:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By spqrzilla:

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.


I get the point... Are you calling me an idiot?

I just don't think it can happen if you are always vigilant. Unless the gun itself fails, I'm sure that there are people that go their whole life without having a negligent discharge.


Well, I had no desire to call you an idiot earlier, no. But I'm willing to reconsider that position in light of subsequent evidence.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 2:50:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 2:51:58 PM EST by jcrowl]
Sorry now that I quoted the CHL instructor. but I was trying to make a point. Yes there are those who have never had an Accidental Discharge or an Auto accident. But I have had both. We may try to be "vigilant" but sometimes it just ain't so even when you think you are. That's why it's so important, no matter what else you do, to KNOW where that barrel is pointing. When I had my AD, I'd been handling and collecting and shooting guns regularly for 15 years. After talking to friends who are fellow shooters, we sort of came to the conclusion that it's we experienced shooters who have to be especially careful. Familiarity and complacency can be dangerous! just my 2 cents worth, Now let us all be civil to each other. We gotta enough common enemies out there!
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 7:09:50 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
Sorry now that I quoted the CHL instructor. but I was trying to make a point. Yes there are those who have never had an Accidental Discharge or an Auto accident. But I have had both. We may try to be "vigilant" but sometimes it just ain't so even when you think you are. That's why it's so important, no matter what else you do, to KNOW where that barrel is pointing. When I had my AD, I'd been handling and collecting and shooting guns regularly for 15 years. After talking to friends who are fellow shooters, we sort of came to the conclusion that it's we experienced shooters who have to be especially careful. Familiarity and complacency can be dangerous! just my 2 cents worth, Now let us all be civil to each other. We gotta enough common enemies out there!


Familiarity and complacency IS dangerous!!

1) My former Sgt. (god I hope he don't see this) shot himself while cleaning his Glock. He racked the round out and dropped the mag - yea, in that order. Then he pulled the trigger so he could remove the slide. He put a tallon into his inner upper leg - got real lucky and was back to work several months later. Lesson: Turn the TV off and maby point the pistol where a hole would not be too big of an issue. He is smart and VERY familar with firearms, we were all shocked he did what he did.

2) Partner was securing his pistol while booking an inmate at the jail. He drew his pistol and started to put in the pistol locker. He had his finger out of the trigger guard but bumped the gun against the edge of the locker. He had a light grip and started to drop the pistol so he tightened his grip to catch it. He used his index finger also - good thing the wall behind the locker was solid cement because the booking office was behind it. He is also smart and and proficent with his pistol but everyone does stupid things sometimes.

I've never had a ND. When I get home I remove my pistol and secure it in an off duty belt holster then it goes into my pistol safe. This takes place in my bedroom by myself, no kids. I KNOW the gun will not fire without the trigger being pulled. But sometime smart people do stupid things so my safe direction is toward my materess not through the wall where the wife and kids might be - just in case I pull a stupid.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 1:04:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 1:16:25 AM EST by The_Floridian]

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.



We use the same term for wrecking a motorcycle. Just as in most things in life, if one does them enough, one will have some form of mishap eventually. There are plenty of pilots who never have a mishap until their last one, experienced carpenters who hit a nail the wrong way, and on and on - why would it be different with weapons?

4A15's post about the policeman who had an AD while putting a pistol into a locker is a great example of how things can, and will, go wrong, eventually, once one leaves the easy-to-control confines of the rifle range with a loaded firearm. If put into enough situations, under enough stressors, most everyone would accidentally, sooner or later, screw up.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:09:27 AM EST
You Can't Fix Stupid!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:12:08 AM EST
Range safety is a serious issue at ALL ranges. It's inevitible. This is where the inexperienced come to gain experience. When your at a range you must lead by example even if no one else is. You did right trying to correct him. Had he threatened me as he did you, saying he'd point his weapon at you........He would have found that gun so far up his ARSE he'd had to get a PI to go find it. Even if I had to count the rounds while he shot at targets.. till I knew he was empty

But with all thats been said I still do not understand how he loaded a revolver while pointing the barrell at his own face. Diddn't gravity make the bullets fall out as he put them in? I don't doubt you cause I've seen some weird shiznit before, just curious.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:10:38 AM EST
Human beings make mistakes. All of us. Safe gun handling habits have a proven track record of minimizing them, and preventing the most severe kinds of consequences when they do occur. But no human being can be so well-trained and so vigilant that they somehow become immune.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:58:46 AM EST
I once saw a photo, headline said it was Al Gore, who was adjusting his strap on an M16 in Vietnam. He was on his knees, mag in the gun, and he was looking down the barrel.
Anyone got it?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:20:54 AM EST
Range safety is important, but I'm with honorabledog. How can you load a revolver with it pointed at your face?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:30:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 10:36:09 AM EST by greyhound47]
I used to go to a couple of ranges with no range officer. I stopped going because of the dangerous insanity I saw almost every time I went. I started going to a new range run by the Indiana Conservation Department. My first time was a couple of weekends ago. I made the mistake of handling my rifle while people were downrange. It was not loaded, it was open, safety on, etc, but still against the rules. The range officer was real nice, but firm, I apologized profusely and weboth moved on. I like well controlled ranges because of what I have seen in the past. Sometimes, we all make mistakes and I like the over seer to make sure I am doing what I need to do too.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:08:17 AM EST
longtime lurker/1st time poster......

To you guys that don't "buy into the whole "not if but *when* " statement, I believe that it's just trying to get you into the mindset that it's totally possible and to be as prepared for it as you can be so that IF it did happen nobody would get hurt. It's not about being paranoid it's about having as little damage as possible IF something happened. It's all about mindset and preparedness.

The same goes with motorcycling although not too many people take it as seriosly as they should, but some of us are out there with full gear when we ride. When a rider in full gear goes down they usually get up and walk or sometimes ride away, but the people that are out there in shorts and flip flops get all ground up and make up most of the scarey motorcycle statistics that are out there.

When I'm riding, I dress like I could go down that day and I protect myself as much as possible and try to ride safely. I know people that have went down with no gear and got all tore up and say how dangerous bikes are and won't ride again, and I know people that have went down wearing full gear and keep on riding. It's not hard to pick which side of that fence to be on. Same goes with firearms, IF I do have one, I know I don't want it to be pointing at anyone, it's just a safe mindset that's all.

When I'm handling firearms, I act the same way, as if one COULD go off when I don't want it to, that's why they're usually reffered to as "accidental discharges" more than negligent discharges.

IMO to refer to them as negligent discharges instead of accidental discharges implies that you are above mistakes and think that it can never happen to you. Complacency itself is the root of many an accidental discharge.

Do I think that accidents are caused by negligence? many are, yes, but at the same time just being complacent is being negligent isn't it?

Link Posted: 6/1/2008 3:09:13 PM EST
i am really not the kind of guy that reports people. I have seen things like this but i have immediately offered help in friendly way.

The one time i reported someone was when I got attitude from them. This particular moron loaded a revolver with the barrel pointed at his face. I was right next to him and said "Hey nice revolver... what kind is it?" he replied and that was fine it was when I said "So you know you should probably not point that thing at your face while you load it right?" and i kind of laughed a little. He looked at me and said "well its not like its gunna go off when im loading it this way" (he had also closed the fully loaded chamber while the guna was still pointed at his face basically) i said "well i guess but its just a better practice to always point downrange even if it cant go boom yet. that whole dont point at anything you dont intend or want to shoot rule ya know?" wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but his response was "you know what? until you own one just shut the fuck up and hope that I dont point it at you next"

There was another guy there too who i know from just being at the range etc. He looked at me and i looked at him and then he said "well i wont be seeing you again" to the guy and he left. I left shortly after without saying another word to the guy. We both filed reports and now this individual is no longer a member.

That is the one and only time I have had a problem with anyone at a range.

I would say that you would be well within the OK zone to report the guy you encountered. I just personally would have tried to maybe help him. Maybe he was a noob and a noob member?
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 3:11:23 PM EST
Dude...punctuation and sentence structure are your friends.... My head hurts from reading that...
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 3:13:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By SorryOciffer:
Dude...punctuation and sentence structure are your friends.... My head hurts from reading that...
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 3:52:25 PM EST
Personally, I have no problems with walking up to someone and telling them to what they are doing is unsafe and they need to stop. I try to be as nice as possible about it, and never once has anyone backlashed about it. Most of the time I'm told they didn't realize and always an apology. Regretfully, when people are being unsafe, most of the time its others they're putting in danger instead of just themselves.

I feel that it is everyones duty to make the range safe, as by not confronting the person you witness doing unsafe things, you're at as much fault as the one that actually did it if someone gets hurt.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 4:06:25 PM EST
I was at a range in california when a big fat lesbian came in with a bolt action rifle. She was pointing it at everyone any everything. The range officer was over there talking to her ever couple minutes, then finally asked her to leave and she got all pissed. I actually was pretty sure she was going to go postal and shoot him or something.

I know this will make me sound like I'm straight from the DU forum, but I sure run into a lot of total whack jobs at the shooting range and/or gun show. I guess they are drawn to guns?
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 4:53:59 PM EST
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:08:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/1/2008 5:09:08 PM EST by 0311Hoosier]

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.

Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:12:58 PM EST
The range I go to has at least two to three range officers which will give you a cordial but stiff first warning. The second warning will be a bit more stern. After that, if you screw up, you are 86'ed for the day.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:19:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By leetninja:
i am really not the kind of guy that reports people. I have seen things like this but i have immediately offered help in friendly way.

The one time i reported someone was when I got attitude from them. This particular moron loaded a revolver with the barrel pointed at his face. I was right next to him and said "Hey nice revolver... what kind is it?" he replied and that was fine it was when I said "So you know you should probably not point that thing at your face while you load it right?" and i kind of laughed a little. He looked at me and said "well its not like its gunna go off when im loading it this way" (he had also closed the fully loaded chamber while the guna was still pointed at his face basically) i said "well i guess but its just a better practice to always point downrange even if it cant go boom yet. that whole dont point at anything you dont intend or want to shoot rule ya know?" wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but his response was "you know what? until you own one just shut the fuck up and hope that I dont point it at you next"

There was another guy there too who i know from just being at the range etc. He looked at me and i looked at him and then he said "well i wont be seeing you again" to the guy and he left. I left shortly after without saying another word to the guy. We both filed reports and now this individual is no longer a member.

That is the one and only time I have had a problem with anyone at a range.

I would say that you would be well within the OK zone to report the guy you encountered. I just personally would have tried to maybe help him. Maybe he was a noob and a noob member?


And sometimes you can just HEAR Darwin sneaking in on little cat's feet!
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:26:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:32:01 PM EST
I was shooting in northern MI at my grand parents house and my aunt wanted to shoot, so she picked the glock up and said "take a pic of me and your ma playin guns" and she pointed my glock at my mom.... I almost slapped her as hard as possible. Good think it was empty, but the fact remains:DONT POINT WEAPON AT SOMETHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT. lol
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 5:54:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sivnet:
Is this freaking common place?


Yes it is commonplace.

The U.S. has millions of gun-owning citizens.

When it comes to safe gun-handling, most of them are idiots (particularly with handguns). I used to work at an indoor range that was open to the public. I saw the accidents and the near-misses on a weekly basis. We are our own worst enemy.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:04:13 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By spqrzilla:
height=8
Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:
height=8
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.


+1

The first time I saw that statement, I thought it was a loud of bubkiss. Then i thought about it a little more, and I remember the time it happened to me. Finger went on to the trigger, hand tightened up, and BOOM. Luckily, I was pointing down range and it just ended up in the dirt, but I got real shook up. It can happen to anyone, and the odds indicate that at some point, you'll bring the hammer down when you don't intend to. But you can minimize the chances that the results are horrific.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:08:58 PM EST
So far I havent experienced this but, the range I attend is in my backyard.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:19:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By spqrzilla:

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.


I get the point... Are you calling me an idiot?

I just don't think it can happen if you are always vigilant. Unless the gun itself fails, I'm sure that there are people that go their whole life without having a negligent discharge.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:19:23 PM EST
How is it possible to load a revolver while pointing it at yourself? Not doubting anyone, but I'm trying to figure it out mechanically.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:22:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By spqrzilla:

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.


Yep. The saftey rules are rather redundant so if you violate one without violating the others, nothing horrible wrong will happen. As far as accidental discharge, it could be something as simple as pulling the trigger when you didn't mean to. Everyone that has shot a flyer has done that.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:25:09 PM EST
ok, 1st, IBTL--this belongs in GD, not Ar15 tech



yes, its common, but nothing you can do w/ ignorance and stupidity of others
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:28:59 PM EST
The worst I have seen, was a few months back. My buddy and I went to the public range(that explains alot), to do a bit of shooting. When we arrived, there were only 3 people there. 2 guys down on one end, shooting muzzle loaders and 1 guy, about in the middle, who looked to be sighting in his lever gun. We made sure we had ear and eye protection on, as we walked to the far, empty end, and began getting our stuff together. We had a bunch of gun cases and ammo boxes so we made a few trips to and from the truck. The muzzle loader guys each made 1 or 2 shots and then were cleaning their barrels. The lever gun dude, made a few shots, we weren't sure at what, but it just didn't seem right. When he stopped, we were about to ask if the range could go cold, to set up some targets, but he just got up, slung his rifle onto his back and started walking out onto the range. He never said a word and had never even looked down at the other guys to see if they were still there. My buddy looked at me and said, "We aren't doing anything, except keeping an eye on him, until he leaves." I agreed. Well he walked out to the 50 yard line, in front of him and checked his target. 3 rounds about 6 inches apart, we could see them from the benches. He then walked down to the 100 yard line, but was 3 lanes over, to his left and checked another target. Judging from where he was touching the target, it looked like he had a 3 shot group, that was about a foot apart. He then walked back to his bench, shouldered his rifle and looked through the scope, at each of his targets, not shooting, just shaking his head. It seemed he couldn't figure out why his groupings were so bad. He then pakced up his stuff and left. Once he was gone my buddy walked down to the other end to chat with the muzzle loaders. They told him, that, idiot had walked out onto the range 3-4 times before we got there and that they were about to shoot a couple of those times and luckily saw him.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:29:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By spqrzilla:

Originally Posted By 0311Hoosier:

Originally Posted By jcrowl:
That "it can't go off like that" is just plain lunacy. I know from personal experience that's it's just like an instructor said at my Concealed Handgun License class in regard to accidental discharges, "it's not a question of if, but when you'll have one". If your following the cardinal rule of never pointing it at anything you don't intend to shoot, all you'll have is embarassment and maybe some damaged property. In my case it was a new 20" Sony TV. Did hit the screen dead center!. That was some years back, 25 to be exact.


I don't buy this statement at all. That is just the unsafe person assuming that everyone else is just as unsafe as they are... IMO of course.


I don't think you understand the point.

The point is that all of the firearms handling rules work together because as humans we are not perfect. Keep finger out of trigger guard, not point at anything you don't intend to destroy etc. The idea is that sooner or later, you will be imperfect and have an negligent discharge but if you are working to follow all of the rules, it is more likely that your negligent discharge will not result in death or serious injury.


Kinda like the cop at the IDPA I was at that shot the RO's truck. He violated a safety rule and had a ND. Thankfully no one was hurt. Just the pride of someone who is supposed to know better... It can happen to ANYONE.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:35:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 6:49:31 PM EST by halfmoonclip]

Originally Posted By Wheelgun:
Range safety is important, but I'm with honorabledog. How can you load a revolver with it pointed at your face?


It must have been cap & ball....
...or the guy was laying down...
Moon
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:00:34 PM EST
We have a DNR range within 20 minutes of my house, it's free, and it's outdoors (sunshine gooood), so naturally I shoot there more than anywhere. My buddies also shoot there... not all of them were well versed in firearms safety and from time to time do something they shouldn't. We all watch each other, repeat clear on the line, line is hot, etc... we try to minimize it.

Unfortunately, as a public range... shit happens. There are 3 or 4 range officers who rotate in and out... usually only 1 is on though. He can't watch everybody, and a few of them rarely say anything. They just sit in the truck not paying attention. There is one in particular that will say something the instant someone does something unsafe. Thats great - but when some of the other ones are on it's pretty much up to the shooters to police themselves - never good. The number of people that show up, having no idea what they are doing sometimes scares me to the point that I once priced ballistic vests JUST FOR the range.

One day there were 4 of us, and like 3 other people on the pistol line. The other 3 were not shooting, etc.. so we asked if we were clear on the line. 2 people gave us the thumbs up, and the other person nodded. We got halfway down the line "pop, pop, pop..." We stopped and yelled cease fire... and the guy looked astounded. He later explained that he thought we meant clear to shoot - whatever. This is a regular thing, though. People usually flag the line with a weapon at least once while we are there, lay down loaded weapons, are loading and charging weapons while people are downrange... some of them even walk downrange while people are firing. I LIKE it when there is no one else on the range, because then we know that the few of us that came together are on the same page.

As for accidental discharges... I fully believe that an accidental discharge is due to a malfunction only. The rest of them are negligent... thats my .02

A buddy of mine had a CZ75 P-01 with the decocker. There were 5 of us in the apartment at the time, and I can't recall what he was doing but he manually lowered the hammer with one hand. Three of us told him to use the decocking lever, not to do it with his thumb... etc. To prove a point he re-cocked it, said "This is my decocking lever" and held his thumb up. When he tried to lower the hammer it slipped, "BANG" narrowly missed the cat, Chris' leg, and went through the vaccuum into the baseboard. He was STUNNED. Luckily the cops didn't come, we were SURE someone heard it.

Needless to say he takes firearms more seriously now... I've personally never had a ND, but I've only been shooting for about 7 years. I like to think I have good safety and shooting habits, and that I'm vigilant...

I did collect the shell casing, and we got the slug out of the wall. I kept them both and made him a plaque out of wood that says "Always listen to your friends." and mounted the casing and slug on it. As being one of those people that thinks he's always right, I don't know what he did with it... but it aint hanging on the wall.

The cat finally reappeared after a few hours.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:23:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By omega62:

Originally Posted By leetninja:
i am really not the kind of guy that reports people. I have seen things like this but i have immediately offered help in friendly way.

The one time i reported someone was when I got attitude from them. This particular moron loaded a revolver with the barrel pointed at his face. I was right next to him and said "Hey nice revolver... what kind is it?" he replied and that was fine it was when I said "So you know you should probably not point that thing at your face while you load it right?" and i kind of laughed a little. He looked at me and said "well its not like its gunna go off when im loading it this way" (he had also closed the fully loaded chamber while the guna was still pointed at his face basically) i said "well i guess but its just a better practice to always point downrange even if it cant go boom yet. that whole dont point at anything you dont intend or want to shoot rule ya know?" wasnt trying to be a jerk or anything but his response was "you know what? until you own one just shut the fuck up and hope that I dont point it at you next"

There was another guy there too who i know from just being at the range etc. He looked at me and i looked at him and then he said "well i wont be seeing you again" to the guy and he left. I left shortly after without saying another word to the guy. We both filed reports and now this individual is no longer a member.

That is the one and only time I have had a problem with anyone at a range.

I would say that you would be well within the OK zone to report the guy you encountered. I just personally would have tried to maybe help him. Maybe he was a noob and a noob member?


And sometimes you can just HEAR Darwin sneaking in on little cat's feet!


How is it possible to load a revolver while it is pointed at your own face without the rounds falling out on the ground????? Please demonstrate!!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:24:10 PM EST
We've covered what you should do, but

When you see bad handling at the range, about the worst things you can do are:

A> Try to 'smack' the weapon out of their hands ... wtf?

B> Scream at them or cause any other disruption that might make them panic and pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:34:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:36:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:45:07 PM EST
The public range we shoot at is usually pretty well stocked with knowledgeable folks.

Unfortunately, it's a shit hole.

loaded with absolute trash - tv's, mannequins, anything that 'splodes when you shoot it.
Link Posted: 6/1/2008 6:49:21 PM EST
I have been shooting at the same outdoor range for years and the only time I see stupid things are when the once a year shooters come out during deer sight in. Indoor ranges are an entirely different story. the last time, and I mean the last time I went to that range a guy proceeded to walk down the 50 yard line to look at his target when the targets have automatic returns. Keep in mind the other lines were full with people shooting. The time before that some yuppie and his hottie came in empty handed and rented a hand gun. the range has a glass wall dividing the range and waiting area, the guy handed the gun to his girlfriend(they were inside the range at this point) and she pulled the gun up into a firing position to check out the sites while she was pointing out at 10 or so of us in the waiting area. He was completely clueless to what she was doing as well until a customer damn near put his fist through the glass screaming at them. Needless to say I dont shoot indoors anymore, sure sucks on those zero degree days but at least I wont get shot.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top