Posted: 8/10/2009 6:48:05 PM EDT
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I'm looking at this for a future option, say in a year or so. I'm looking for input from people who have been through ROTC (of any service, but please specify), are currently in ROTC, or are entering ROTC. DET commanders feel free to jump in here, via IM if necessary I know of a few of you guys just don't have the names to IM. I'm basically looking for the pros and cons. Interesting things about ROTC. Things to remember to do. Dates to meet and just general tips and other information that might sway my choice to ROTC or not.
Thanks (Also Posted in GD) |
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One option that I didn't know (until recently) about was called college op through OCS. Basically, you go through college while doing nothing military. Then you sign up for college op OCS< they pay off your student loans, send you through Basic and OCS, then you are a 2LT with a 3 year commitment (compared to 4 for ROTC or 5 for the Academy.) From the looks of things, about half of the guys that go through OCS aren't prior service.
You could debate which commissioning source is the best/makes the best leaders; however, the college op appears to be the "easiest" option. |
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One option that I didn't know (until recently) about was called college op through OCS. Basically, you go through college while doing nothing military. Then you sign up for college op OCS< they pay off your student loans, send you through Basic and OCS, then you are a 2LT with a 3 year commitment (compared to 4 for ROTC or 5 for the Academy.) From the looks of things, about half of the guys that go through OCS aren't prior service. You could debate which commissioning source is the best/makes the best leaders; however, the college op appears to be the "easiest" option. Really? How does one get branch selection via ocs? |
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Look into the Navy's degree completion program. Sounds sort of like the program discussed above. You are enlisted in the Navy (E3-E7 depending on the program) and get full pay and benefits (BAH, tricare, etc...) Time in school counts as time in service, you also get to bank leave time for when you're actually working. I went to a state school that didn't have ROTC, so it was my only option. However, after talking with ROTC guys it sounds like I got a better deal. I know I got more money because I could also work in the summers, unlike ROTC. edit- I disagree with this being the "easiest" option. Navy OCS sucks ass (Marine DIs). That said, I wouldn't have it any other way. I can pick out the guys who went ROTC. |
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Hey I am a Navy option in NROTC, in the process of switching to Marine option. I see that you are in Oregon, are you going to college at Oregon State as well? I am entering my sophomore year, and so far, it has been quite an experience. Freshmen year is probably the hardest, getting accustomed to the unit/military, as well as college.
If you have any specific questions, please pm or email me. I can answer questions about both the Navy side and the Marine side. I go to the University of Idaho BTW, and live in Seattle. |
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One option that I didn't know (until recently) about was called college op through OCS. Basically, you go through college while doing nothing military. Then you sign up for college op OCS< they pay off your student loans, send you through Basic and OCS, then you are a 2LT with a 3 year commitment (compared to 4 for ROTC or 5 for the Academy.) From the looks of things, about half of the guys that go through OCS aren't prior service. You could debate which commissioning source is the best/makes the best leaders; however, the college op appears to be the "easiest" option. Really? How does one get branch selection via ocs? Everything you do while there is graded, and you're put into an overall merit list. Then you pic your branch based on that merit list. With that said, the branch selections could be pretty shitty (The last class had 4 infantry and over a dozen chem slots). Aviation is very rare apparently. I suppose it depends on what you want to do. |
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One option that I didn't know (until recently) about was called college op through OCS. Basically, you go through college while doing nothing military. Then you sign up for college op OCS< they pay off your student loans, send you through Basic and OCS, then you are a 2LT with a 3 year commitment (compared to 4 for ROTC or 5 for the Academy.) From the looks of things, about half of the guys that go through OCS aren't prior service. You could debate which commissioning source is the best/makes the best leaders; however, the college op appears to be the "easiest" option. Really? How does one get branch selection via ocs? Everything you do while there is graded, and you're put into an overall merit list. Then you pic your branch based on that merit list. With that said, the branch selections could be pretty shitty (The last class had 4 infantry and over a dozen chem slots). Aviation is very rare apparently. I suppose it depends on what you want to do. Well, my interest is either infantry, armor, or lastly aviation. I would do any of those, by choice. The rest I don't have any interest in. I guess OCS may not be for me then. 
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If you want to fly in the army, then you want to be a warrant officer… After you’re done with company command, being a captain in army aviation is like being stuck in the movie Office Space…  The last aviation maintenance company I had anything to do with was commanded by a major. |
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If you want to fly in the army, then you want to be a warrant officer… After you’re done with company command, being a captain in army aviation is like being stuck in the movie Office Space… The last aviation maintenance company I had anything to do with was commanded by a major. It’s true that there are cool jobs available. However, much of an aviation officer’s career is spent on staff… 
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If you want to fly in the army, then you want to be a warrant officer… After you’re done with company command, being a captain in army aviation is like being stuck in the movie Office Space… The last aviation maintenance company I had anything to do with was commanded by a major. It’s true that there are cool jobs available. However, much of an aviation officer’s career is spent on staff… After, what rank though? |
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Artllery goes like this;
Platoon Leader BN Staff Company Command BDE/Division Staff Maybe BN Command Division Staff or an instructor somewhere till retirement as so few actually make BDE Command There are lots of officers in all sorts of weird jobs waiting for command or retirement. |
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Artllery goes like this; Platoon Leader BN Staff Company Command BDE/Division Staff Maybe BN Command Division Staff or an instructor somewhere till retirement as so few actually make BDE Command There are lots of officers in all sorts of weird jobs waiting for command or retirement. Interesting. I would imagine that arty officers don't get much action outside of outposts? |
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Artllery goes like this; Platoon Leader BN Staff Company Command BDE/Division Staff Maybe BN Command Division Staff or an instructor somewhere till retirement as so few actually make BDE Command There are lots of officers in all sorts of weird jobs waiting for command or retirement. Interesting. I would imagine that arty officers don't get much action outside of outposts? In my ROTC outfit we had an arty major who said the last time he saw a cannon was desert storm.
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Artllery goes like this; Platoon Leader BN Staff Company Command BDE/Division Staff Maybe BN Command Division Staff or an instructor somewhere till retirement as so few actually make BDE Command There are lots of officers in all sorts of weird jobs waiting for command or retirement. Interesting. I would imagine that arty officers don't get much action outside of outposts? In my ROTC outfit we had an arty major who said the last time he saw a cannon was desert storm. I believe it, wtf would someone do? |
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Arty officers down range may get outside the wire a lot depending on the mission. Our sister unit 1-6FA was missioned as an infantry unit during OIF II. Thier LT's and CPTs were outside the wire everyday. They did routate a platoon through the few cannons they did have on counter battery fire mission status on base.
Our officers never left the base and divided their time between the DFAC, their CHU hut and either the TOC or the gates. |
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If you want to obtain a commission in the Army than ROTC is the way to go. I'm a captain in the Army who obtained my commission through ROTC. I loved ROTC, you are basically like your own fraternity, but with actual goals.
As far as branches are concerned...go Maneuver; either Infantry, Armor, or attack Aviation That is where all the action is. |
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If you want to obtain a commission in the Army than ROTC is the way to go. I'm a captain in the Army who obtained my commission through ROTC. I loved ROTC, you are basically like your own fraternity, but with actual goals. As far as branches are concerned...go Maneuver; either Infantry, Armor, or attack Aviation That is where all the action is. I think aviation would be the best, however, I've heard that you need to be a WO, to have the best flight potential instead of commissioned is this valid? |
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I think aviation would be the best, however, I've heard that you need to be a WO, to have the best flight potential instead of commissioned is this valid? That is correct… Aviation warrant officers start off as pilots and then later specialize after a few years. They tend to stay in the cockpit a hell of a lot more than RLOs. Instructor pilots can stay in the cockpit for most of their careers… A current typical aviation commissioned progression: staff, PL, staff, staff, captain’s career course, staff, company command, staff, staff, staff…
Each route has its advantages and disadvantages. If you want to fly more, then go WO. If you want to lead, be a jack of all trades, and a power point whiz then go commissioned… Aviation isn’t for everyone. There is a hell of a lot of baggage that goes along with flying. There are annual flight proficiency tests and physical exams. You have to constantly maintain your knowledge of all regulations, aircraft, and procedures. It is a rewarding and demanding field. On top of it all is dealing with all the normal army BS… |
| You mentioned that you aren't interested in any other branches than infantry, armor, and aviation. Before you decide to go to ANY (army) commissioning program, you need to understand that you are NEVER going to be able to guarantee what branch you get. Infantry, armor, and aviation are all extremely competitive branches, and there are 13 other branches that you might end up with. I've seen plenty of good guys, that became great LTs that got screwed with which branch they were accessed into. Your branch will be selected by the army, by the needs of the army. At least in ROTC, everyone that is in lower than the top 10% of the OML are rolling the dice for their branch. Don't let that scare you though, because it does work out for plenty of people, and some guys are surprised that they like the branch that they end up in, even if it wasn't in their top 3 choices. |
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Posted by RedDogSoldier;
You mentioned that you aren't interested in any other branches than infantry, armor, and aviation. Before you decide to go to ANY (army) commissioning program, you need to understand that you are NEVER going to be able to guarantee what branch you get. Infantry, armor, and aviation are all extremely competitive branches, and there are 13 other branches that you might end up with. I've seen plenty of good guys, that became great LTs that got screwed with which branch they were accessed into. Your branch will be selected by the army, by the needs of the army. At least in ROTC, everyone that is in lower than the top 10% of the OML are rolling the dice for their branch. Don't let that scare you though, because it does work out for plenty of people, and some guys are surprised that they like the branch that they end up in, even if it wasn't in their top 3 choices. Not entirely true. When I left Cadet Command as a Senior Military Instructor, cadets could get their branch of choice if they agreed to an extended period of time on active duty. I'm thinking it was 8 years but I don't remember exactly. No resigning their commission or changing branches before that time period was up. Most LTs get one of their top 3 choices for branching. Something in the neighborhood of 70-75%. Cadet Command does not like the term "cut line" but it exists. The cut line is the line where you either get offered active duty or the reserves. Those that are close to the cut line for active duty may not get their choice of branch. And I can tell you that combat arms are the most requested branches. I order to get into combat arms, you need to be at the top of the OML. High grades, high PT, high results from advance camp, And anything to separate yourself from the average cadet like Recondo and the recommendation of your PMS as well. Also, quite often almost all branches are pretty full when it comes to promotions and job slots so there are a lot of LTs in non-combat branches serving years in combat arms units while they wait for promotion opportunities and job position openings within their own branch. |
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You mentioned that you aren't interested in any other branches than infantry, armor, and aviation. Before you decide to go to ANY (army) commissioning program, you need to understand that you are NEVER going to be able to guarantee what branch you get. Infantry, armor, and aviation are all extremely competitive branches, and there are 13 other branches that you might end up with. I've seen plenty of good guys, that became great LTs that got screwed with which branch they were accessed into. Your branch will be selected by the army, by the needs of the army. At least in ROTC, everyone that is in lower than the top 10% of the OML are rolling the dice for their branch. Don't let that scare you though, because it does work out for plenty of people, and some guys are surprised that they like the branch that they end up in, even if it wasn't in their top 3 choices. Meh, you have to be a completely moronic, fat, lazy, buddydicking shitbag to not get armor or infantry at West Point if you're willing to ADSO. Without ADSO you just have to be in the top 80 or so percent of your peers. |
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Posted by RedDogSoldier;
You mentioned that you aren't interested in any other branches than infantry, armor, and aviation. Before you decide to go to ANY (army) commissioning program, you need to understand that you are NEVER going to be able to guarantee what branch you get. Infantry, armor, and aviation are all extremely competitive branches, and there are 13 other branches that you might end up with. I've seen plenty of good guys, that became great LTs that got screwed with which branch they were accessed into. Your branch will be selected by the army, by the needs of the army. At least in ROTC, everyone that is in lower than the top 10% of the OML are rolling the dice for their branch. Don't let that scare you though, because it does work out for plenty of people, and some guys are surprised that they like the branch that they end up in, even if it wasn't in their top 3 choices. Not entirely true. When I left Cadet Command as a Senior Military Instructor, cadets could get their branch of choice if they agreed to an extended period of time on active duty. I'm thinking it was 8 years but I don't remember exactly. No resigning their commission or changing branches before that time period was up. Most LTs get one of their top 3 choices for branching. Something in the neighborhood of 70-75%. Cadet Command does not like the term "cut line" but it exists. The cut line is the line where you either get offered active duty or the reserves. Those that are close to the cut line for active duty may not get their choice of branch. And I can tell you that combat arms are the most requested branches. I order to get into combat arms, you need to be at the top of the OML. High grades, high PT, high results from advance camp, And anything to separate yourself from the average cadet like Recondo and the recommendation of your PMS as well. Also, quite often almost all branches are pretty full when it comes to promotions and job slots so there are a lot of LTs in non-combat branches serving years in combat arms units while they wait for promotion opportunities and job position openings within their own branch. The statistic about 70-75% getting one of their top 3 is misleading, because many of those cadets didn't request the most competitive branches. Show me a stat that says 70-75% of cadets that listed Infantry, Armor, and Aviation as their top 3 were awarded one of those. Once the designated # of slots for that branch for that commissioning class are gone, they're just gone. Period. Remember that you can ADSO, but even then you aren't guaranteed your branch. Westpoint is obviously a different ballgame altogether, and none of what I'm saying applies to those guys! |
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Westpoint is obviously a different ballgame altogether, and none of what I'm saying applies to those guys! Quoted:
Before you decide to go to ANY (army) commissioning program, you need to understand that you are NEVER going to be able to guarantee what branch you get.
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The statistic about 70-75% getting one of their top 3 is misleading, because many of those cadets didn't request the most competitive branches. Show me a stat that says 70-75% of cadets that listed Infantry, Armor, and Aviation as their top 3 were awarded one of those. Once the designated # of slots for that branch for that commissioning class are gone, they're just gone. Period.
No one can quote that statistic. I doubt Cadet Command even tracks statistics of percentages who choose those 3 branch choices. But I do know the numbers are have been upwards of 70% for all cadets not just those with the 3 branches you mentioned.. I worked with some officers on the branching comittee in 2007 and saw the results. The percentage does vary year to year. Cadets are told not to pick 3 combat arms branches and they are told which branches are the hardest to get because they are the most competitive. Infantry is the most competitive and hardest to get unless you are a top cadet. Cadets need to be a 4.0 student, max the APFT, have 100% participation in all ROTC training events, do Recondo, go to Airborne or Air Assault school, and get an overall excellent at advane camp. Go to airborne or air assault course as a cadet and this helps one get a combat arms branch. No guarantee on this one but it helps. If a cadet wants to go Guaranteed Reserve Forces Duty (GRFD), they can get their branch of choice. Along with the method I mentioned about trading number of years for a guaranteed branch. That is, if the option still exists. I haven't paid attention to ROTC programs and options since I retired in late 2007. There are ways to get a guaranteed branch but they will cost the cadet something. Either years of service or a reserve/guard gig. Also, if you come away from advance camp in the top 5% of the OML (Distiguished Honor Grad), you will get your branch of choice. Bottom line is, be an average cadet/student and you might find yourself Reserve Quartermaster LT instead of an active duty, steely eyed, airborne infantry killer. Ask the ROTC recruiter how to get a guaranteed branch choice and then bust your ass and meet the requirements. It's not easy but it is doable. I may not have all my facts 100% but this is what I remember from my days as the Army ROTC, Senior Military Instructor for Minnesota State University, Mankato 2005-2007. |
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The ADSO (active duty service obligation) program is the one which offers branch placement for 2 more years of service obligation. However, application to the ADSO program does not guarantee an ADSO contract, because the # of slots for a given branch are still finite. This is the general rule of thumb: top 10% of the OML will get their first branch choice, top 20% will get their first branch choice if they ADSO. However, if you are in say the 40th percentile, which is still above average, you probably would not get infantry even if you apply for an ADSO contract. Of course, if you aren't selected for ADSO, you don't owe the time. Also, the ADSO program allows you to add 2 years to your service obligation to guarantee your first duty station, or to guarantee that the army will finance grad school while you are on active duty.
And yes, the reason that most cadets get a choice within their top 3 is because they place a "back-up branch" which they could live with, in their top 3 choices. For example, instead of selecting infantry, armor, and aviation, which are all extremely competitive, they would select infantry, armor, and signal, because they could live with signal, just in case they aren't high enough in the OML for infantry and armor. Here is the thing about the ROTC OML: YOUR GPA IS EVERYTHING. It is weighted much more heavily than any other factor, and single handedly makes or breaks you. This is why I always advise cadets to not try and be engineers, if their branch choice is extremely important to them. You can be a PT stud, and the walking embodiment of leadership, but without the stellar GPA to back you up... you'll have trouble being a blue blooded infantry killer like you want to be. |
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My S2 officer in Iraq was a signal officer who ADSO'd in Artillery. He later changed branches to MI. Probably was able to do this because he did an oustanding job as OIC of the officer's mandatory Cup and Flower fund.  Thanks everyone I will contact the local ROTC units and figure this out. May have more questions! 
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Artllery goes like this; Platoon Leader BN Staff Company Command BDE/Division Staff Maybe BN Command Division Staff or an instructor somewhere till retirement as so few actually make BDE Command There are lots of officers in all sorts of weird jobs waiting for command or retirement. I'm Artillery...went through Army ROTC. As an LT you'll spend your time as a Fire Support Officer, Fire Direction officer, a PL, or an XO. Can't forget that as well. ROTC is a good program but some of the better officers out there are guys who were prior enlisted and then came over to the dark side. Going straight ROTC sucks because once you commission you really know nothing about the Army. You may have heard the expression "well paid private". While I don't agree with it because you do have a lot of responsibility and you will be making decisions, it's partially true. For the OP, just keep in mind that Armor, Infantry, and Aviation are probably the three most sought after branches in ROTC so you'll have to be competitive. This means not only performing well in ROTC but also Grades in school. Even with all of that it still may be necessary to ADSO (Additional Service Obligation= 3 more years active duty on top of the required 4yrs) just to get the branch you want. Nothing is guaranteed. You may get stuck doing something you don't like. It's a gamble. IM me if you have any specific questions. CMS |