Posted: 1/8/2010 8:25:25 PM EDT
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OK, so I've been practicing on a Fender acoustic-electric for around two weeks now and have the major chords down (with the exception of F) to where they don't sound like a cat's being run over. My question is, "How long should I expect it to take for me to be able to smoothly transition from say a G chord to a C?"
I know part of the technique is to switch from putting one finger down on the fret board at a time to a simultaneous fretting to speed things up. But, on average, how long should I expect to have practice before this becomes reflexive? Thanks. |
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I don't remember how long it took me to be able to make smooth chord changes. That was over 15 years ago.
An easy tip I can give you, if two chords have a string and fret in common, such as C and F (B string, first fret), keep that finger planted, while you move the other fingers. Practice, practice, practice, and before long you'll be playing chords without even thinking about what fingers go where. |
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Pick each note of the chords one at a time. Learn to switch slowly, strum them slowly...play while you watch tv, surf the net, etc. Gradually you will build up the muscle memory and it won't be hard to switch quickly as long as the chords
aren't too complicated. You'll become familiar with the patterns after a while. |
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Thanks for the feedback. I am really enjoy learning and playing (to the extent that I can play right now) so practicing every day isn't an issue for me. Aside from the F chord, the only other major chord that gave me problems was the C due to the "vertical stretch" necessary to fret it but I have that down now too. It's easy to continue when you see evidence of your progress. I'm also learning a bit of music theory as I go which helps make sense out of some of the lessons that I'm running across.
One additional question I have revolves on finding a good guitar forum on the net. Every guitar forum I've visited so far has been poorly moderated and consists of people looking for tabs to certain pieces that they could find if they spent less than three minutes with google and a good internet connection. Are there any guitar forums that are as well moderated as this gun forum is? |
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I've found that the best way to learn progressions is to find a song that uses the chords, and go from there. There are tons of fairly easy songs, so you should be able to find something you like. Green Day's "Good Riddance" is a good one, and you also get to practice your strumming. Just go slow at first, and make sure your making the chords correctly.
I've never found a forum that was worth a shit. |
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Quoted:
I've found that the best way to learn progressions is to find a song that uses the chords, and go from there. There are tons of fairly easy songs, so you should be able to find something you like. Green Day's "Good Riddance" is a good one, and you also get to practice your strumming. Just go slow at first, and make sure your making the chords correctly. I've never found a forum that was worth a shit. I think that I'll try to go the song route as well. Switching between two chords is all well and good but the majority of songs will require switching between several different chords so throwing some variety in there doesn't sound like a bad idea. I appreciate the input. My initial frustration was that I was trying to play a song on GarageBand lesson 2 and it was going way too fast for me to make chords switches even at half speed. The lack of dedicated guitar forums that are worth anything is a disappointment but then that's what makes this web stand out so well. Can any of you think of any mistakes that you made while learning the guitar and give me some advice on how to avoid them? Thanks for the input thus far. |
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Well, one mistake I made, is when playing/learning scales I always did it using down strokes with the pick. Later, I went back and made myself do it with alternate picking, which is starting off with a down (or up) stroke, then up, down, up, down. You'll need it as you progress, best to learn to do it now, rather than having to relearn your picking later.
Of course lessons help too, especially with certain techniques where it's easier to learn watching. |
I began learning acoustic guitar from books 4 or 5 years ago (David Hamburger's and Mark Hanson's books were the most useful). Still flub the C more than I'd care to admit  . I had a hard time with that one. How long it'll take before you can get good at chord progressions depends on how much you practice and your natural ability. I saw dramatic improvements in a year, and now 4 years later I feel like I'm a halfway decent player (emphasis on halfway). I practice on average maybe 2-3 hours a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I've made the most progress when I practice every day for an hour or more.
I've haven't spent much time on guitar forums, but my favorite chords/tab site is azchords.com. I look for songs I like and see if I know the chords––-lots of songs out there that consist of G, C, D, A, E, Am, Em, and/or F. Once you learn the chords you can start adding some life to them with fingerpicking, strumming patterns, etc. Travis picking is my favorite style. As for mistakes, I think not playing with a pick from the beginning was the main one I made. Still can't play with a pick. |
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Keep in mind that there are several fingerings for all chords, and for most cowboy chord shapes. You know the fingering for the "C" chord. But how do you finger the "G" chord? If you learn it this way: ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|M|-|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- P=pinkie M=middle R=ring It's much easier to transition between the "C" and "G" chords. Most people learn the "G" chord like this: ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- R=ring I=index M=middle This is the more 'standard' fingering, but I believe the other fingering is better to learn first. YMMV |
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I usually play a G like this, and I agree with you: ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- Learning to play with your pinky is tough, but it will come in very handy down the road. I wish I spent more time with my pinky when I started. OP, I don't remember how long it took me, but don't get frustrated. It always takes a while. One day you'll realize, "Holy shit, I've got it!" Don't skimp out and keep skipping learning F and B chords. Not spending enough time getting down barre chords will come back to bite you in the ass! If you get really frustrated after a while of practicing, put the guitar down and come back to it later. You'll often actually work out some kinks while you're sleeping, and the next day it will be easier. |
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Yeh, the coolest thing about learning guitar is the "AHA!" moments. The early days are pretty frustrating, then you reach a point where you realize you're doing things that you just couldn't do a couple of months ago. Then, as you get a little better (maybe a year into it) you start having some moments where you feel like you might actually be making something like 'music.' This continues for a while as you reach plateaus and climb beyond them. And there really is no limit (other that your own personal talent limit.) Some would argue that with enough of the right dedicated practice and instruction, that anyone can be an top-level player. I don't believe that - no matter how much I practice I will NEVER play the guitar as well as Andy McKee, or Al DiMeola, or any number of other guitar gods. Right now I need to find an instructor. I've learned what I know on my own (trying to pay attention to the fundamentals) and I'm ready to move on to the intermediate level. The big thing for me is to balance rote learning and theory with 'just messin' around." And practicing every day. That's huge. Even if it's only 5 minutes playing along with the TV, you gotta' do something EVERY day. |
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Quoted:
Keep in mind that there are several fingerings for all chords, and for most cowboy chord shapes. You know the fingering for the "C" chord. But how do you finger the "G" chord? If you learn it this way: ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|M|-|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- P=pinkie M=middle R=ring It's much easier to transition between the "C" and "G" chords. Most people learn the "G" chord like this: ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- R=ring I=index M=middle This is the more 'standard' fingering, but I believe the other fingering is better to learn first. YMMV I was "taught" to play the G chord by placing my index finger on fret 2 of the A string, middle finger on the 3rd fret of the E string and the ring finger on the 3rd fret of the e string. The C chord I play by placing my index finger on the first fret of the B string, the middle finger on the 2nd fret of the D string and the ring finger on the 3rd fret of the A string. Using this set up, the best way that I've found to switch from G to C is by placing the 3rd finger on the A string first (as opposed to placing the index finger on the B string first). I understand that I should think, "simultaneous" but I'm not quite there yet. 
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Quoted:
Well, one mistake I made, is when playing/learning scales I always did it using down strokes with the pick. Later, I went back and made myself do it with alternate picking, which is starting off with a down (or up) stroke, then up, down, up, down. You'll need it as you progress, best to learn to do it now, rather than having to relearn your picking later. Of course lessons help too, especially with certain techniques where it's easier to learn watching. This is the type of advice I was looking for. Thanks for the feedback. I'll certainly do this. |
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Quoted:
Yeh, the coolest thing about learning guitar is the "AHA!" moments. The early days are pretty frustrating, then you reach a point where you realize you're doing things that you just couldn't do a couple of months ago. Then, as you get a little better (maybe a year into it) you start having some moments where you feel like you might actually be making something like 'music.' This continues for a while as you reach plateaus and climb beyond them. And there really is no limit (other that your own personal talent limit.) Some would argue that with enough of the right dedicated practice and instruction, that anyone can be an top-level player. I don't believe that - no matter how much I practice I will NEVER play the guitar as well as Andy McKee, or Al DiMeola, or any number of other guitar gods. Right now I need to find an instructor. I've learned what I know on my own (trying to pay attention to the fundamentals) and I'm ready to move on to the intermediate level. The big thing for me is to balance rote learning and theory with 'just messin' around." And practicing every day. That's huge. Even if it's only 5 minutes playing along with the TV, you gotta' do something EVERY day. Yes, I've already had a handful of those types of moments. The first thing that I was told to try was to try playing an E chord with a specific type of strumming. I though, "OK, that looks easy." When I tried to play it the first time, it sounded awful so I tried again. It still sounded awful. At that I point, I thought, "Hm. OK. So this isn't easy ..." The next day it sounded better and the day after that I had it down and so forth ... |
It took me 6 months of playing to sound great on the basic chords. Bar chords like F are much harder to learn, but when you do get the strength to play bar chords, it makes playing in odd keys much easier. If you play a bit every day, you'll be able to play the bar chords in no time, and you'll be able to commit the easier chords like C and G into muscle memory long before then. It really doesn't take to long to be able to play cowboy chords, and for singing at the camp fire/impressing the ladies, that's all that's needed. I always recommend getting a solid chord background before trying to play lead stuff. In a time when everyone and their mother plays guitar, being able to play lead and rhythm is a big plus. And, if you know the chords, it may teach you enough music theory to fit chords into lead progressions down the road, which is extremely helpful (and one of my big weaknesses.) Good luck!  |
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Quoted: Quoted: Keep in mind that there are several fingerings for all chords, and for most cowboy chord shapes. You know the fingering for the "C" chord. But how do you finger the "G" chord? If you learn it this way: ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|M|-|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- P=pinkie M=middle R=ring It's much easier to transition between the "C" and "G" chords. Most people learn the "G" chord like this: ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- R=ring I=index M=middle This is the more 'standard' fingering, but I believe the other fingering is better to learn first. YMMV I was "taught" to play the G chord by placing my index finger on fret 2 of the A string, middle finger on the 3rd fret of the E string and the ring finger on the 3rd fret of the e string. The C chord I play by placing my index finger on the first fret of the B string, the middle finger on the 2nd fret of the D string and the ring finger on the 3rd fret of the A string. Using this set up, the best way that I've found to switch from G to C is by placing the 3rd finger on the A string first (as opposed to placing the index finger on the B string first). I understand that I should think, "simultaneous" but I'm not quite there yet. That's the bottom diagram - the 'standard' fingering. Since you are just getting started you might consider pushing yourself a bit and learning the fingering in the top diagram. Once you get comfortable with the "G" chord using your pinky on the 1st string, you will find transitioning to other chords easier. Neither way is 'wrong.' The reason new students are taught the 'standard' fingering is because it's much easier to learn. My opinion is that it handicaps the player later. YMMV. |
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Wow, I enjoy reading the advice handed out here as much as I enjoy dishing it out! As a fairly newer guitarist, I can attest to the wisdom of all said here, though some of it I never did, or do. Think of some of your favorite song, then go to chordie.com to see if they are in chords you can tackle right now. You would be surprised how many songs are just in the major chords. Play, play and PLAY. Drinking beer is helpful. And though I still chord many chords "wrong", it IS good advice to chord correctly, as you will find that when you learn a new progression, there was a REASON you were supposed to use certain fingers: easier progression. As for the flip from one to the other, there's no time frame, really, it just happens all of a sudden. You'll be playing and then suddenly go WOW! DIDJA HEAR THAT????? IT WAS PERFECT!!!! Always nice. Isn't this fun?
Oh, and as for forums, I *strongly* suggest The UMGF, it is a Martin guitar forum, but many there own no Martins or multiple brands, all are welcome, it is easily the best guitar forum on the net. Stop on by! Oh, and post a pic of your guitar! PS––––D3,G2,B1 is a perfectly good "cheater F", use it for a while and soon it'll be easy to barre B&E for a "real" F. PSS––––It's not a good idea to use cheater chords. PSSS––––I use them. Don't be like me!
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LOL! I'll second, that beer is helpful!
Another tidbit of advice, if you know someone that plays, see if you can play with them, or even just watch. I learned quite a bit from playing with, and watching other people play. Even if it is'nt your style of music, you'll pick up something useful. If it's someone you don't know, or know well, offer to bring some beer! That helps get your foot in the door!
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Quoted:
I usually play a G like this, and I agree with you: ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- Learning to play with your pinky is tough, but it will come in very handy down the road. I wish I spent more time with my pinky when I started. OP, I don't remember how long it took me, but don't get frustrated. It always takes a while. One day you'll realize, "Holy ***, I've got it!" Don't skimp out and keep skipping learning F and B chords. Not spending enough time getting down barre chords will come back to bite you in the ass! If you get really frustrated after a while of practicing, put the guitar down and come back to it later. You'll often actually work out some kinks while you're sleeping, and the next day it will be easier. I play G like that also, it makes it easier to transition to a C played like this,, ||-|-|P|-|- ||-|-|R|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- ||-|I|-|-|- ||-|-|M|-|- ||-|-|-|-|- I don't strum the red. I usually mute it with my thumb. |
Thanks again for the advice. I'll take any and all I can get. As far as pictures of the guitar I'm starting with, I don't have any taken right now (my camera was stolen/lost over Christmas along with all of the Christmas pictures I took  ).
I can point you to this link which has the exact guitar I'm working with although I know we didn't pay that much for it. I'm playing probably at least half an hour's worth each night and haven't missed a night since the 31st or so of December. All of my chords except the F major still sound good and I'm getting maybe a little bit faster at the switch between the G and C major chords. I'm going to keep at it and see where it'll take me. I have a new respect for those that can play well though. It requires determination I've found. |