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Posted: 8/10/2014 7:45:40 PM EDT
I just watched the video posted here in GD by RightWingNut about a guy who was forced by local Deputies to go to the local hospital ER for an x-ray and cavity search. The cops thought that the guy was hiding drugs up his butt, and got a search warrant for the guy's body.
Apparently the guy cooperated with those performing the search, and nothing was found. The guy later sued the Sheriff's Department and won $925,000 in a suit alleging violation of his rights under section 1983 of the Civil Rights Act.
My question is this: Suppose the guy had refused to cooperate with the medical people performing the search. Let's say that he refused to lie still for the x-ray, and refused to permit the doctor or nurse to insert a finger into his rectum. When the medical personal attempted to get him to drink a laxative (sodium citrate?) to induce a bowel movement, what if the guy had spit it out and refused to swallow it?
Since the medical procedures being done to the guy were not done in an attempt to treat any illness or injury, would the medical personnel be obligated to persist in their attempt to perform these procedures? Would they be authorized to use force to perform these procedures?
And finally, what would you do if you, as a medical professional, were faced with a situation like this?
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:01:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2014 8:01:42 PM EDT by Lead-slinger]
Tag for the epic butt hurt..
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:06:49 PM EDT
As a paramedic that has worked in the er, I would tell the cops to get fucked. They have zero legal authority to do what they did. They want to lock him up in their jail and have him shit it a bucket and pick through it, that's on them, but I am not participating in violating their rights.

How a judge signed off on that warrant is beyond me
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:10:34 PM EDT
I'm an ER nurse. I will have no part if officers come to my job and try this bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:13:01 PM EDT
As an EMT....You all are very safe from me ever putting anything in your butt.....Ever.. I don't even want to do CPR on you. I really don't even want to talk to you. As a point of fact, I don't really even want to see you. Please don't call 911. Just drive your sorry, heartburned ass to the ER yourself. I'd rather just sit here at home and enjoy a drink. I don't need you you to ruin my night.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:13:17 PM EDT
I am a doctor, and although I don't work in Emergency Rooms, I can't see why ANY doctor would be co-operating with the police in doing any kind of invasive procedure to a patient in their care. In fact, he was not a patient but a suspect.

I would not have co-operated with such a request, warrant or not.

These doctors were likely derelict in their duties to their patient, in my view.

How does a judge or a cop compel me to do any of this crap?

Doctors should have been sued, along with the police.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:14:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tactical221:
As a paramedic that has worked in the er, I would tell the cops to get fucked. They have zero legal authority to do what they did. They want to lock him up in their jail and have him shit it a bucket and pick through it, that's on them, but I am not participating in violating their rights.

How a judge signed off on that warrant is beyond me
View Quote

This.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:16:49 PM EDT
The ER had already induced a bowel movement, AND Xray him AND did a CT. there was no way something was something up his ass. Any medical personnel involved in the digital examination should be in prison and have their medical and nursing licenses suspended for life. If someone tried that in my ER the docs would tell the police to fuck off, rightfully so I might add.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:34:10 PM EDT
"First, do no harm" is the motto I was taught to go by in the nursing program. The patient has the the right to refuse treatment at any point in time. Since these procedures were not part of a treatment, I would have refused to take any part in it. I am surprised he didn't sue the hospital and staff as well. Once the LEO walked through those E.D doors, they must respect the code of ethics of the medical field, if they insisted or gave "orders" I would have told them to get bent.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:36:36 PM EDT
We have run into deputies who demanded we do things to patients and when we refuse they go nuts, one even threatened to arrest us all for disobeying a judges order, we just laughed and said arrest us.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:38:10 PM EDT
Doctors could tell the cops to fuck off, and the cops would have to.

They can't dictate the care of a patient.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:43:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:43:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FJ60:
Doctors could tell the cops to fuck off, and the cops would have to.

They can't dictate the care of a patient.
View Quote

This, the doctor has the final say, if the non invasive tests find nothing, it should have been done there. I hope the LEOs involved end up in prison where they belong.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:44:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ERNURSE:
We have run into deputies who demanded we do things to patients and when we refuse they go nuts, one even threatened to arrest us all for disobeying a judges order, we just laughed and said arrest us.
View Quote



Hats off to you
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2014 8:47:49 PM EDT by Medicfrost]
I had a cop order me to strip down a 4 year old girl to look for child abuse because the mom was drunk in public and he wanted to get her on multiple charges. I refused. There was no way I'd strip down a child without a parents consent and supervision.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:46:25 PM EDT
The more troubling aspect of this case IS NOT THE LE CONDUCT but the medical "professionals" conduct

I used to be a popo I am now a part time paramedic ..
Have no problems telling LE to fuck off if their wishes contradict the patients wishes
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 8:58:48 PM EDT
As a nurse there is no way I'd participate in any of those shenanigans. I'd be Andrew Jackson about it- so they signed it, let's see THEM do it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:02:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:
The more troubling aspect of this case IS NOT THE LE CONDUCT but the medical "professionals" conduct

I used to be a popo I am now a part time paramedic ..
Have no problems telling LE to fuck off if their wishes contradict the patients wishes
View Quote


+1

The police have the right to perform a search but are limited by not being able to get their own x-ray, etc. I understand that.

But the docs and nurses who participated in these abuses should have their licenses permanently revoked. In med school they teach us where the lines are and when it's reasonable to cross them. If a patient is delerious from an infection, it's perfectly reasonable and even necessary to treat the infection using whatever methods are needed. If the patient is competent then it's hands off. As long as they understand the consequences of going against our medical advice, we can't/won't force them. In a search situation, it doesn't even get out of the gate.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:08:11 PM EDT
I'm just here to spectate.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:09:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ERNURSE:
We have run into deputies who demanded we do things to patients and when we refuse they go nuts, one even threatened to arrest us all for disobeying a judges order, we just laughed and said arrest us.
View Quote

I've heard of coworkers of mine doing that (threatening to arrest hospital employees). It's rediculous.

My mom is a nurse and has been threatened with arrest a few times for not violating hippa.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:14:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m1afan1000:

I've heard of coworkers of mine doing that (threatening to arrest hospital employees). It's rediculous.

My mom is a nurse and has been threatened with arrest a few times for not violating hippa.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m1afan1000:
Originally Posted By ERNURSE:
We have run into deputies who demanded we do things to patients and when we refuse they go nuts, one even threatened to arrest us all for disobeying a judges order, we just laughed and said arrest us.

I've heard of coworkers of mine doing that (threatening to arrest hospital employees). It's rediculous.

My mom is a nurse and has been threatened with arrest a few times for not violating hippa.

The threat of arrest and punishment from some unnamed judge is cute.

The amount of smackdown on an LEO and judge for forcing medical procedures upon a patient (let alone the complicit medical staff) would of Biblical proportions.

Throw around "patient rights and privacy" and every Judge immediately defers to the physician's judgment, they don't want a part of that shit, and if you're an LEO dumb enough to threaten your way into a situation like that, you are in for a world of hurt.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2014 9:23:10 PM EDT by matthardcore]
This sure is a lot of isolated incidents


Now Arfcom has a new dream job......... The ER Nurse. Get to tell cops to fuck off.




(And get to look up medical gowns)
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:24:34 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By new_RRA_user:
I am a doctor, and although I don't work in Emergency Rooms, I can't see why ANY doctor would be co-operating with the police in doing any kind of invasive procedure to a patient in their care. In fact, he was not a patient but a suspect.

I would not have co-operated with such a request, warrant or not.

These doctors were likely derelict in their duties to their patient, in my view.

How does a judge or a cop compel me to do any of this crap?

Doctors should have been sued, along with the police.
View Quote



With a taser
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:25:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By matthardcore:
This sure is a lot of isolated incidents


Now Arfcom has a new dream job......... The ER Nurse. Get to tell cops to fuck off.




(And get to look up medical gowns)
View Quote

OP needs to include "police" in the title to really kick this off.
Link Posted: 8/10/2014 9:29:07 PM EDT
He needs suit against that hospital as well. And the judge if possible.
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