Posted: 2/28/2010 9:59:57 AM EDT
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How are the registered? Form 4s?
Reason I ask is our local PD has a small but very old inventory of machine guns. Old vietnam style M-16 and if my memory serves Mac 7s (looked kinda like a Mac 10 with Thompson furniture). In any case my father was very good friends with the police chief when I was a kid and they were shooting buddies. And one time when I was a teenager I got invited to go shooting with them at the local range and we were allowed to shoot their machine guns. I have very fond memories of this now, especially of shooting that M16 with my Dad. This was in the late 1970s so I know these guns were all from before 1986. I'm just wondering if they would in fact be transferable to a private individual. I've always wanted an M16 but everytime I came across one I was broke as hell. But one day things will improve and I'd love to get the rifle I shot with my Dad. And I figure the price of a transferable might be incentive enough to sell it and they could buy several new ones in it's place. So how would such an item be registered with a police department? |
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Form 5 - For a pre '86 tax exempt transfer to a government entity, they can transfer to Joe Citizen on a Form 4 with applicable tax paid. I think post '86 MGs go on a Form 5 as well, but cannot transfer to citizens.
Form 10 - Tax exempt transfer of an otherwise contraband MG newly added to the NFA for a government entity. |
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Form 5 - For a pre '86 tax exempt transfer to a government entity, they can transfer to Joe Citizen on a Form 4 with applicable tax paid. I think post '86 MGs go on a Form 5 as well, but cannot transfer to citizens. Form 10 - Tax exempt transfer of an otherwise contraband MG newly added to the NFA for a government entity. Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. |
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They had select fire weapons and SMGs? Or they had a browning machine gun? Not sure if troll.  ?!??!? Who said Browning machine guns? M-16s and some kind of Mac I'd never seen before. Called it a Mac 7 I think. Is a PD having some M16s and SMGs really that unusual? Also it would be nice to be able to ask a simple question in GD without the self appointed internet troll patrol showing up and starting crap. This is really a great place for info and you can find a few knowledgeable folks who actually know this stuff. But the signal to noise retards make it almost not worth trying. 
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Form 5 - For a pre '86 tax exempt transfer to a government entity, they can transfer to Joe Citizen on a Form 4 with applicable tax paid. I think post '86 MGs go on a Form 5 as well, but cannot transfer to citizens. Form 10 - Tax exempt transfer of an otherwise contraband MG newly added to the NFA for a government entity. That is what I needed to know. Thanks. |
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Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. How can I know if the guns on a Form 5 are transferable to individuals or not? |
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OK, stupid question Did I understand that a department/agency can transfer a pre '86 NFA firearm to an individual on form 5 even if it wasn't "registered" with BATFE by an individual? Could my "Uncle's" bring-back I found in his closet after he passed away be "given" to a local department? Could it be sold later on a form 5 legally? No, all of my uncles are still alive, just wondering. ETA Sorry, answered between opening the page, reading and posting. Form 10 |
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I've heard of NFA dealers going to police departments with pre-86 machine guns and basically trading with them. They would offer them brand new M4s with all the bells and whistles for their old beat up M16s and M16A1s. Some departments didn't know they could make thousands and just traded them one for one.
If the MGs are in fact pre-86, you should be able to transfer them with the standard paperwork. |
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Form 5 - For a pre '86 tax exempt transfer to a government entity, they can transfer to Joe Citizen on a Form 4 with applicable tax paid. I think post '86 MGs go on a Form 5 as well, but cannot transfer to citizens. Incorrect. The transferor is liable for any transfer tax due on an NFA transfer. Since the government doesn't charge itself tax, any NFA item transferred from a government entity will transfer on a tax exempt Form 5. So if you purchase a machine gun from a police department it should transfer to you on a tax exempt form 5. |
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Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. How can I know if the guns on a Form 5 are transferable to individuals or not? Unless they were made and registered registered before May 1986, a "regular", non-SOT citizen cannot own them. Anyone (legally) selling something that WAS on a form 5 will tell you that it was an "old police weapon" that is now on a form 3 (instate sale) or form 4 for an out-of-state sale. |
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Although I've heard of LEO to Joe Schmo transfers for pre 86 weapons, I've never witnessed it personally and I'm sure that it's a rare occurrence. We used to have a few basically unused Thompson's until our Chief decided that he was going to trade them for M4's.  The prices that agencies pay for machine guns would make baby Jesus cry. MP5's for $1200, M4's for $700, etc. Heck, there's also a special program where you can get free M16's (DRMO or something like that???). |
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Although I've heard of LEO to Joe Schmo transfers for pre 86 weapons, I've never witnessed it personally and I'm sure that it's a rare occurrence. We used to have a few basically unused Thompson's until our Chief decided that he was going to trade them for M4's.
The prices that agencies pay for machine guns would make baby Jesus cry. MP5's for $1200, M4's for $700, etc. Heck, there's also a special program where you can get free M16's (DRMO or something like that???). I bought two consecutively serial numbered SWD M11's and a Ruger KAC556F from the Dalworthington Gardens police department. I paid $750 each for the Macs and $1800 for the Ruger. |
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Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. How can I know if the guns on a Form 5 are transferable to individuals or not? Unless they were made and registered registered before May 1986, a "regular", non-SOT citizen cannot own them. Anyone (legally) selling something that WAS on a form 5 will tell you that it was an "old police weapon" that is now on a form 3 (instate sale) or form 4 for an out-of-state sale. We shot these in the late 70s so they are. I'm just curious if everything in the PD is on a Form 5 how you tell the pre86 stuff from the rest. I'm thinking they might also have some post 86s and those wouldn't be the ones I shot. I need to understand what is what before I attempt to inquire one day. |
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They had select fire weapons and SMGs? Or they had a browning machine gun? Not sure if troll. I know of two agencies off the bat that still have belt fed Browning .30 cals in their arsenal. It's not as uncommon as you think. Local SD has an M-60. |
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OK, stupid question Did I understand that a department/agency can transfer a pre '86 NFA firearm to an individual on form 5 even if it wasn't "registered" with BATFE by an individual? Could my "Uncle's" bring-back I found in his closet after he passed away be "given" to a local department? Could it be sold later on a form 5 legally? Doubtful. My part time agency has had a grease gun in its armory thatw as never papered back in the day. They've been wanting to get rid of it for years, but no dealer will swap it for anything because its not transferrable except to another agency, and who wants a grease gun for LE use........ |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. How can I know if the guns on a Form 5 are transferable to individuals or not? Unless they were made and registered registered before May 1986, a "regular", non-SOT citizen cannot own them. Anyone (legally) selling something that WAS on a form 5 will tell you that it was an "old police weapon" that is now on a form 3 (instate sale) or form 4 for an out-of-state sale. Not entirely true. There are a few post-May 86s that have been transferred to "regulars", and it is perfectly legal for the "regulars" to possess them. |
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Only seized/ contraband NFA items need to be registered on a Form 10. Otherwise legal butTransfer restricted NFA items (post-68 imports, post-86 mgs) would still transfer on a Form 5, because it would they are still eligible to be transfered later as samples to SOTs. Form 10 guns can only be transferred between .gov entities. How can I know if the guns on a Form 5 are transferable to individuals or not? Unless they were made and registered registered before May 1986, a "regular", non-SOT citizen cannot own them. Anyone (legally) selling something that WAS on a form 5 will tell you that it was an "old police weapon" that is now on a form 3 (instate sale) or form 4 for an out-of-state sale. Not entirely true. There are a few post-May 86s that have been transferred to "regulars", and it is perfectly legal for the "regulars" to possess them. Perfectly legal is stretching it a bit and if the BATF figures out that they've screwed up on the transfer they can make the "regulars" get rid of it because that's happened before too. |