[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Problem with the Mossberg Shockwave (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/8/2017 8:36:06 AM EDT
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The Shockwave is not a SBS under the NFA. However, Florida law prohibits possession of a SG w/a bbl under 18" unless lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law.
Deputy Dawg comes across your Shockwave. Does he know that it is lawful under federal law, or does he just see a "shotgun" with a 14" bbl? I suspect that you get to go to court to prove that your weapon is lawfully possessed under federal law, after a ride in the back of a patrol car. |
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The Shockwave is not a SBS under the NFA. However, Florida law prohibits possession of a SG w/a bbl under 18" unless lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law. Deputy Dawg comes across your Shockwave. Does he know that it is lawful under federal law, or does he just see a "shotgun" with a 14" bbl? I suspect that you get to go to court to prove that your weapon is lawfully possessed under federal law, after a ride in the back of a patrol car. Deputy dumb-ass comes across your 16" barreled AR with an adjustable stock and forward grip, he's convinced it's worse than a shoulder thing that goes up, therefore it's a 60000 rpm baby killing ghost gun. You would still have to go through bullshit and arrest, etc. to get your legal firearm back |
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Read much?  Sure do. Mine, and the others I have built arent NFA. But perfectly legal under Federal Law. But like OP said when clueless LEO stops you, its best to have the documentation on you to explain the law to them. Same when I am transportating any other NFA crap I may have on hand. Im betting this thread will fill with those that havent, trying to explain things to those that do. |
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Per the definition in 790.01 in the statute:
[i](10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.[/i] |
OP - Not illegal unless we want to get into the argument that ALL PGOs are DD and NOBODY wants to tread there  This question has been examined with keen eyes and the NON-nfa 14" barreled 12ga firearm is good to go, even in Florida, along as you stay within the subtle nuances of the law. Like others said keep a copy of Marty's letter with it and maybe keep it cased and out of sight, to and from wherever you are shooting, just to avoid the question.
Trying to guess what a cop will or won't do is like trying to reason with a rattlesnake. The cop is going to do what the cop is going to do. Be ready with factual knowledge, a copy of the ATF letter to Shockwave and your Lawyer's card if the cuffs come out. I have had a cop tell me that a 30 round magazine is legal but a 40 round magazine is not. I have had a cop tell me that it is illegal for me to cut down a factory barrel because that is what makes it "sawed-off". These things may be illegal in some locales but not where I was at the time. DISCLAIMER- I am NOT a lawyer. I am not giving legal advice. My comments are based on what I do, not what you should do. Taking legal advice from GD is dumb 
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Then I go to jail and then get lawyer. Then sue for false arrest. Reasonable suspicion and qualified immunity will protect the LEO in this case. I suggest polite and calm conversation with responding officer and the ask for the shift supervisor. Show the adverts from Mossberg's web page to both and most likely you'll be on your way shortly. the elephant in the post is why did you invite the man into your life to begin with? |
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While not exactly the same scenario as the shockwave, here in WA SBSs (less than 18" bbl or under 26" OAL) are not legal to possess and have not been since 1994-ish. However, 12 gauge AOWs like the Serbu Super Shorty were/are legal and stamps for them are approved by the ATF.
The two people I knew that owned Serbu's here kept a copy of their form 4 and an open letter from (then) Attorney General McKenna stating that AOWs are not a shotgun as defined in WA RCW and therefore are legal to possess as long as Federal law was complied with. Have documentation on you, know how laws are interpreted by your state and... ...if it comes down to a plain old dick measuring contest with a local LEO who is ignorant, politely decline and defer; penises can be measured later by a Judge in court. I can only speak for this state, but seizure of items that are legal to possess by LEOs is frowned upon under Article one, Section seven of the state constitution. |
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Per the definition in 790.01 in the statute: (10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.[/i] That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. |
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Only time I've seen SBR/SBS stuff come into play is when you're already been arrested and they're trying to throw everything at you. I've personally never seen anyone question a rifle or shotgun on a stop
I have as much interest in that thing as Superman has in a kryptonite jock strap.
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That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. As always, you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. Have a good attorney on retainer or at least one that knows gun and NFA law handy. You'll need him for the court date. It's not right, but that's what happens. Figure anywhere from $4000 to $10,000 out of pocket to gain your rights and freedom back. |
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That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. Quoted:
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Per the definition in 790.01 in the statute: (10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.[/i] That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. Mossberg said that they specifically designed the shotgun around this criteria as it is the legal requirements in several states. |
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As always, you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. Have a good attorney on retainer or at least one that knows gun and NFA law handy. You'll need him for the court date. It's not right, but that's what happens. Figure anywhere from $4000 to $10,000 out of pocket to gain your rights and freedom back. Quoted:
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That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. As always, you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. Have a good attorney on retainer or at least one that knows gun and NFA law handy. You'll need him for the court date. It's not right, but that's what happens. Figure anywhere from $4000 to $10,000 out of pocket to gain your rights and freedom back. Irrelevant post is irrelevant: I was responding to the (erroneous) SBS post. But if like your sanctimony you can keep your sanctimony. |
Here is a good review (imho)
 The Pistol Grip Only Shotgun - The Perfect Home Defense Tool? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ Shockwave Video  SHOT 2017: Mossberg Shockwave - No Commentary Needed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmC3NlfUd-U |
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Mossberg said that they specifically designed the Quoted:
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Per the definition in 790.01 in the statute: (10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.[/i] That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. Mossberg said that they specifically designed the |
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Per the definition in 790.01 in the statute: (10) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.[/i] That is unless it isn't a shotgun per the ATF. Mossberg said that they specifically designed the They call it a "Shockwave", tout "This 12GA offers legendary Mossberg pump-action reliability in a compact 14” barreled package" and have it listed under the "pump action" "shotguns" menu on their website: http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/ I get that this model is not manufactured with a stock. I get that it is a "firearm". It's a 12 gauge, pump action, tubular magazine fed pistol, er I mean shotgun, er I mean firearm. |
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Isn't a 18.5" with a factory pg just a hair over 26"? If so, how is this any better with the extra length on the grip, rather than the barrel? That's why I've never thought it was that amazing. Not even close. Google shows 31" for the PG cruiser with 18.5" bbl. It was designed under a more restrictive understanding of the law--hence why it's still called a shotgun.. |
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Except it isn't a shotgun. It's a firearm. Ok, wink, wink, nod, nod. Attached File |
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It still isn't a shotgun. That isn't up for debate or alternate interpretations. It's a fact. |
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Here is a good review (imho)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ Shockwave Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmC3NlfUd-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmC3NlfUd-U 
As if I needed some nerd's personal opinion on it. |
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Isn't a 18.5" with a factory pg just a hair over 26"? If so, how is this any better with the extra length on the grip, rather than the barrel? That's why I've never thought it was that amazing. 31" actually. However the Raptor grip changes the feel of a PGO firearm altogether. 1) It allows you to get down the the M500 factory 14" barrel and mag tube configuration previously the realm of the SBS. 2) It shifts the OAL from the front to the rear a few inches relative to the trigger. Look at where your pinky finger is on a traditional pistol grip the look at where it rests on a Raptor grip. That couple inches makes a big difference in handling. 3) The recoil is transferred closer to straight back and thus easier to mitigate. The traditional pistol grip creates a lever that multiplies perceived recoil. The Raptor rocks! The biggest drawback is aiming. This is where the projected laser actually shines (pun intended  ). I have a Streamlight light/laser combo. The laser is parallel to the bore so I know that at any given range the reflected dot is just about 2" under where the bore axis is pointing. Then it simply becomes an issue of knowing where your gun actually shoots.
In addition, I put together one of the 14" barrel combinations. For "within the room" distances it is very easy learn how to hit badguy sized targets predictably and repeatedly without sights. It just takes lots of practice. |
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Ok, I get it. Excuse me. But how would you Sheldon Coopers describe a Mossberg "Persuader" or "Shockwave" if you were looking for one or putting out a BOLO for someone carrying one? Quoted:
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you'd think a cop would know words mean things. Ok, I get it. Excuse me. But how would you Sheldon Coopers describe a Mossberg "Persuader" or "Shockwave" if you were looking for one or putting out a BOLO for someone carrying one? I wouldn't even bother with the semantics. I'd just arrest anyone with a firearm and let the courts sort it out. |
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I wouldn't even bother with the semantics. I'd just arrest anyone with a firearm and let the courts sort it out. 
If I know better than to call a magazine a clip, and I cared (which I would), I'd call it a firearm. If I were CNN Id call it a high capicity baby killing AK57. You can call it anything you want. No matter if a BOLO DID call it a shotgun, its still not. |