Posted: 6/8/2011 4:44:02 PM EDT
As soon as you're done chucking at "hardness," we can continue with the thread.  In a recent thread in the armory, I asked about some FTFs I've had with my Sig 556. Some guys suggested that the XM193 I've been using is known to have harder primers. One of the more common suggestions was PMC Gold. I thought I'd go with it, but more recent events have led to me looking deeper into the topic of primers. You see, it seems that I have sent my relatively new CZ85 off to a gunsmith so they could help me fix it 'till it's broke. One of the changes I've asked for is a 13lb main spring. I have been told that this spring can lead to... FTFs due to hard primers. The fix is an extended firing pin that nobody seems to have available, so I can either continue running a heavier spring (that's no fun), or I can look for 9mm that is likely to have lighter primers. So here's the discussion- What are known brands of 5.56mm and 9mm that are known for typically hard or soft primers? In this case, I'm interested in both cheap blasting and more expensive social grades of ammo. Has anybody else experienced this sort of dilemma? Does anybody else know where I can get an extended firing pin for a CZ85B? |
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Quoted: your answer is reloading you are welcome I'm not sure that I'm at a point where reloading would be fiscally attractive. I've done a generally good job of sticking with the cheaper calibers. I currently run .22lr, 9mm, 5.56mm, .45acp, and 7.62x54r. I'll probably be adding .44mag and eventually .30-06, though. I honestly don't know much about reloading, but based on the price of equipment and raw materials in the Midway USA catalog, I'd have to shoot a metric shit-ton to get a return on my investment. |
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General rule is that mil-surp or mil-spec ammo will have harder primers. Commercial stuff has generally softer primers. Federal commercial ammo at one time had the softest of all primers, not sure about now. Of the civilian stuff CCI was reputed to have the hardest primers, not quite up to Mil stuff but fairly hard. The mil stuff has harder primers because it gets used in full auto weapons (and harder primers handle high pressures better with less risk of piercing/failing).
Just my opinion but if I was looking at a mod that my gunsmith told me might increase my risk of FTF's on a social weapon, I'd think pretty hard about how bad I wanted that mod. And IMHO going to an extended firing pin seems like a kludgy way to 'fix' a marginal weapon. No offense intended. |
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Quoted: General rule is that mil-surp or mil-spec ammo will have harder primers. Commercial stuff has generally softer primers. Federal commercial ammo at one time had the softest of all primers, not sure about now. Of the civilian stuff CCI was reputed to have the hardest primers, not quite up to Mil stuff but fairly hard. The mil stuff has harder primers because it gets used in full auto weapons (and harder primers handle high pressures better with less risk of piercing/failing). Just my opinion but if I was looking at a mod that my gunsmith told me might increase my risk of FTF's on a social weapon, I'd think pretty hard about how bad I wanted that mod. And IMHO going to an extended firing pin seems like a kludgy way to 'fix' a marginal weapon. No offense intended. The idea is that a lighter mainspring should lead to a lighter trigger pull, but it can also cause a hammer to fall with insufficient force to ignite a primer. A longer firing pin would provide a more positive transfer of energy from the hammer to the primer. Oh, and I gots to ask: What is your standard for firearms if you consider the CZ75 family to be "marginal?"
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How long is that extended firing pin? That's a solution that brings a new problem.
The problem with primers is that we don't have enough information. James Calhoon has a chart on his web site that gives dimensions for most primers on the market, but it's old and I would double check thicknesses to be on the knowledgeable side. An equally important detail we don't know is whether the primer cups are annealed or work hardened, and if they are work hardened, how much. A work hardened primer cup can compensate for reduced thickness to a point. You'll hear recommendations to use CCI 41 primers in small rifle applications because they are sold as arsenal primers. That's fine, but there are at least two other primers that just as tough, and maybe better. In any case, if the goal is eliminating the possibility of a slam fire, the primer is not the first detail that requires work. The Sig ought to be able to ignite any primer in the chamber. If not, there's a problem. Use any primer in your pistol until it doesn't work - the only way to know for sure is to experiment for yourself. Don't trust a gunsmith and don't trust the internet buzz, find out for yourself. |
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Quoted: How long is that extended firing pin? That's a solution that brings a new problem. I'm curious about that myself. The only one I've found online is here- http://czcustom.com/cz75b-firing_pin_new.aspx They don't say how much longer it is. I'd have one, but when I called them to ask about it, they told me that the batch they were expecting was ruined during a heat treating process, and they were not sure when the original producers could re-tool for another run. If I do get one and I remember, I'll post some pics...
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My reloading experience was, from hard to soft:
CCI Winchester Remington Federal Generally, XM193 is Federal, but they use a different primer for the military stuff. It's much harder than the civilian primers. Either way, your rifle has a problem. It shouldn't FTF. Have a gunsmith check it out. |
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